Are you just meme'ing or did something new happen?

these kinds of posts are basically my least favourite kind of meme

Hi - I don't really post here ever so I don't expect anyone to take anything I say with any authority, but I'd like to pitch in with a couple of things.

1. I'm a donator at tf2 center. I definitely won't be donating any more in future, and may even attempt a chargeback as a statement of saying that this sort of stuff isn't ok.

2. I'm lucky enough to have a decently paid full time job that allows me to put money into community tf2 efforts. If you need small donations for anything you guys want to work on as an alternative to tf2center, put me down.

3. ...and finally - I'm a trained journalist at one of the world's most prestigious newspapers. While er, that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things - it does mean that I'm good at copy editing and writing. If you need anything you're doing pr-wise looked over or if you need someone to look through any text you put on site pages, then I'd be happy to help.

Yep, that's about it! Cheers.

Edit: A lot of people rightly pointing out that you only create a viable alternative than creating something that is significantly better than tf2center is currently. There's no reason why if you get the right people on board with a mix of ux/design/development/community management skills that you can't do that - but it's no mean feat. Speaking to tf2center admins should also be considered a viable option.

Fascism is defined as "oppressive, dictatorial control" on thefreedictionary.com. It's a difficult word to define but some of this MN stuff is at least in the ballpark.

This.

I think the point that people are currently missing is this:

The entire goal of this effort is singular: ensure that the competitive TF2 community has the best possible stepping stone service between public games and competitive play. It is very possible that as the effort to create a viable alternative grows MN will see this, and begin working to improve the image and service of TF2C. If that happens I would personally consider all of the time I invest into creating an open source alternative time well spent. If that does not happen, then creating a viable OPEN SOURCE alternative is the best way to create the kind of market competition that is required for the player base to influence the administration through their actions.

As a community we have, time and again, done things that we should be too small to achieve. Through volunteer efforts we have hosted wildly successful charity events (some of them organized and run in the space of a few days), created world class production through the efforts of a skeleton crew of largely unpaid staff, survived as a community for nearly a decade with little to no support, sent teams to Europe on the backs of community funded donation drives not once, not twice, but three times (as of later this year). We've coded services like Logs.tf SizzlingStats, TF2Center, and countless others.

Sure, it is no mean feat, but if you honestly think it is too much for the TF2 community then you obviously haven't been paying enough attention over the last decade.

I don't think anybody doubts that there could be another successful alternative to tf2c, but you have to realize it will be relatively useless in the end with the remaining time before matchmaking. Is there really a point of making a new website, funding money and time that won't be used anymore, in what it seems to be possibly a few weeks/months from matchmaking? I suppose you can say that it's possible matchmaking won't be good, so it could still be used, but the whole point of this website is to provide a transition from pubs to competitive. I can't see a matchmaking system that doesn't provide a transition at the least. Maybe I'm wrong and Valve will manage to mess everything up though.

Just to give some perspective:

TF2center took years to develop.
TF2.gg only took a few months to have a working system, but that's because we had a beast programmer who was very experienced. We were also working on an ELO-based tier system - if this new project has that then a lot of time is required for testing it since it hasn't been properly done before.

Honestly I don't know if we would be able to make a viable TF2center alternative before MM comes out. It seems that MM has been making a lot of progress and we've already gotten hints to what it will be like. Unless the TF2center devs jump ship onto this new project, it may be smarter to wait for MM.

You'd be suprised. I managed to prototype a previous version of my server rental site in the space of about a day. It matters how determined the people in the project are :P

Sponsored by CouponBug.com!

I meant with the UI, graphics, debugging, etc. At the time I was a full-time student and the other dev had a full-time job so this was all done in our free time - you are definitely right in that it depends on the motivation and available time of people.

A new MM site could definitely be viable - after all, Valve MM isn't the end-all be-all in CS:GO. However, it really depends on how good Valve MM is on launch and what other competitors jump in (ESEA/CEVO/others). Considering that, it has to be decided whether trying to make a new MM system is worth it, especially if it likely won't be ready before Valve MM hits.

If MM is not a priority, it may be better to expand on one of the existing PUG services as they have most of the framework to support basic lobby functionality already.

After matchmaking comes into the game, I am confident things like pug.me and TF2Pickup will keep existing, mainly because of mumble, and players you're fimiliar with

Valve MM won't be what we want.

For 1, discussing canceling the project to avoid redundancy when MM hits is silly because we still have 0 idea what MM is going to be - e.g. no whitelist, what ruleset? class limits? How do we avoid something we can't foresee?

But let's say they take ESEA config. Then how do we accommodate the australians or europeans?

2, through digging out hud files we gathered that MM will require a ticket of some sort. How do we grow the game as an esport when our game is hidden behind a paywall? You still need to allow access to people who want to try out the game. This is also the only reason UGC still exists, people need to have access to a trial run and get a taste of what the magic is.

3, what are you going to do in the meantime? We have no idea when MM will exit beta and even then, you still need to direct people somewhere to pug.

Centers, Lobbies, and pug groups will definitely still exist after Valve MM drops. Their focus would transition from being a platform for introducing the format to a platform for introducing the team elements that would most likely be lacking in the standard match making. More importantly they would offer a more hands on community that actively seeks to remove hackers that valve is unlikely to be able to catch as consistently (given the sheer numbers that will hopefully be using their system).

Again, this project is entirely focused on forwarding the interests of the community. Having an OPEN SOURCE alternative to any of the current systems means that in the future it will be considerably easier for other players to take the foundation and grow it into additional services.

Our problem now is that we have a great, highly functioning service that is being run by people we have every reason to believe will continue to abuse their power and essentially hold the community hostage because there is no viable alternative. To solve this we must either give that leadership a reason to change their ways or create said viable alternative.

We can't change other people, no amount of reason and logic is ever going to change someones mind over the internet unless they are willing to consider other ways of thinking. We can hope that this is the worst that TF2C manages to do, but that is dangerous given the history that has come to light over the last few days. Or we can use this enthusiasm to grow and improve our community as a means of jump starting the project with the amazing talent that exists within our community.

Whether our alternative replaces TF2C or acts as a reminder to the leadership of TF2C that they must continue to provide not only a great service but also a great environment is inconsequential. Both outcomes are a win for the community.

Or, to put it another way. If there is no other game in town, and no indication that alternatives are being developed then there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON for MN to change his ways. People are stuck with TF2C if they want to play the competitive format outside of scrims, matches, and pugs. If the open source foundation for a viable alternative exists then the cost of creating strong competition for TF2C is cut dramatically, and that is fairly good motivation (from a business standpoint) to start caring about what your user base thinks of you.

http://strawpoll.me/4874386

is ur dad a dictator when he paid all your bills, fed u, and put a roof over your head then expected you to follow certain rules?
No one owes you anything in life, so when someone is footing a bill for all these services how dare some angsty child think their voice needs to be heard in this stalin-esque website.

the BETA will require a ticket of some sort. thats alright with me. having a beta for something like competitive open for all might not go well, and imo it's something worth paying for.

According to the dictionary definition yes your dad is being a dictator as all parents should be to a certain extent. Now when you deal with people over 18 and run your site on/with DONATIONS you don't get to be a dictator because its not YOUR site its the community's.

I'm not saying that nothing should be done whatsoever, I'm saying that it might be worth considering extending existing PUG services rather than creating a new site. In the end, TF2center really just hosted lobbies, and the biggest difference between lobbies and PUGs is that in PUGs captains have to pick players.

It may not even be a paid ticket, either, but something given out to selected participants for the beta. We don't know anything other than the fact that the beta will be closed.

What's stopping us from expanding available low-level IRC pugs in the meantime? It won't bring over the majority of tf2center players, but I'm not convinced a new site would either & this gives better options to us people who care about it.

I mean, there used to be several populated pug channels of different skill levels but it's been a long time since that was really the case, unless I'm just missing some of them. Last I checked tf2mix was full of IM to invite players, which I'm pretty sure was never the intent of it

Pug and Mix.nahl needs to be revived.

http://forums.tf2center.com/topic/6032-jared-steam-0132501283/

rofl

Could somebody explain to me how this is ban-able, non the less a chat ban instead of a lobby ban? http://forums.tf2center.com/topic/5945-mircocasti-httpsteamcommunitycomidmrcartilio68/

Makes absolutely no fucking sense to me.

http://i.imgur.com/aBY55x6.jpg

Masternoob more like Masterbaitng to 14 year old girls on the internet LOL

http://cdn2.thegloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/chris-hansen.jpg

What the fuck, he's literally a pedophile. That's disgusting

What a trashbag

fairy isn't 14, trust me

*but still like 10 years younger than the guy

To whomever decided to try and start a witch hunt for MasterNoob on reddit: for shame. Do you not realize that the entire point of why Digresser and I did what we did is to improve the community, and not to have a senseless, misguided mob try and "fix" the situation? Regardless of the morality and decisions of people involved - myself included - removing the services TF2C provides to the community is undoubtedly a net loss. Yes, had a different individual been in charge of TF2C, current events might have been different. But that is not the case. There is, quite simply, no way TF2C can operate without MN. He is in charge of development, future projects, servers, hosting, monetary issues - everything vital to the success of the site hinges on him right now, other than moderation.

Unless MasterNoob turns out to be more malicious than expected (i.e: misusing the donated money), most people would agree with me that it is better if TF2C stayed alive for the moment.

TF2Can emerged from Flares that Care because individuals channeled their outrage into doing something positive for the community; not wasting time trying to hunt down the corrupt individuals in charge of FTC. The competitive TF2 community has achieved incredible things time and again because there are people willing to do good for the sake of everyone else. The recent events surrounding TF2Center can result in achieving great things - or it can be squandered by shortsighted individuals who care only for vengeance and humiliation. And you know what? Who MN is, what he has done, does not matter at all in the long run, as long as people seek to improve the community. If you make people care and focus more about some silly witch hunt than positive efforts, then you've done much worse, and made a much more negative impact on the community than he has.