I added it to the HL Files page for you.

http://ugcleague.com/files_tf2h.cfm

swiftwater over upward are you fucking kidding me

They should replace badwater with cashworks to keep the trend

I'm glad I'm not playing this season

;_;

of course now that I say that I find out I'm the only soldier left on the roster 8(

I've only played part of the summer season and last season, I still have no idea how to effectively play most of the maps, and now they're dumping more underplayed ones

also not really keen on gullywash being in playoffs for the second season in a row, didn't play it last season and probably won't this one either. I like viaduct, but now I have to hope we make playoffs to play it.

I was kind of hoping for at least 2 seasons in a row with similar map selection but it's like they're playing pin the tail on the donkey with the pool

Some thoughts:

- I never liked upward. It's set up well but the actual physical geometry of the map makes me sick. Some of the stuff around the last point is disgusting. Yes, we all know that PL maps with open areas like upward and badwater and swiftwater are great for highlander, but that doesn't mean that great maps can still have horrible flaws. Badwater is one of TF2's best maps, but that's not because it's designed specifically well, it's because it has almost no design flaws and it's in a format and formula that just outright works so well. Upward is like a direct downgraded version and I feel like anyone who prefers it to badwater either doesn't have enough experience with the two + tf2 as a whole, or has fanboy issues and judges it for reasons that aren't cohesive with the design goals of the game (wrangler anyone?). I sort of understand why people complain about it being taken out, but at the same time I feel like it's gotta be replaced eventually because it has so many geometry problems. No qualms here about it being taken out.

- I'm really glad croissant is in. Being a map in the serious season will make people learn it, and I know that once people are used to it it'll be more liked. It's not badlands, but it's better than snakewater (for HL).

- Process is the future of TF2 maps.

- Barnblitz pro has some amazing changes that really help the map out. I'm scared of this one new flank into the last point being too close to a full health kit, but we'll see how it goes and if it's changed.

- I really don't like haunt/vitalism on design principle grounds. Almost everyone who tries to make a good CTF map either does The Exact Same Thing As Always or Changes The Gamemode. Why not make ctf_2fort_pro? Why not make it dual koth so that it's like CTF with Capture Points? I would have fun with those, but they'll never be as good as what would happen if, say you take what turbine is to 2fort, look at the difference between how they play, and then make something that's even more extreme. Doublecross doesn't count, because it lacks one of CTF's major two necessities: The ability to cut off the flag carrier. Maybe I'm biased, and maybe CTF will just never work well if engineer's allowed, maybe the number of players matters too; I still think that if you too cp_process and put flags on the 2/4 cap points (yes, the physical point) with all the traditional TF2 CTF mechanics, it would be an absolutely great CTF map. Sorry that this part turned into more of a rant about the state of things than my thoughts on the map, but it's the best I've got.

- cp_steel is weird, but I think it's pretty cool. It has its faults but I don't see anything wrong with putting it in the rotation, especially since it's the only map with its "mode".

- Arctic is like a viaduct remake but better for highlander. It's alright. Has a couple geometry problems (mostly just how awkward that sign with the little dip right off the cap point is) but nothing like upward.

I don't see how your ocd about geometry should result in excluding a map that 95% of people agree is excellent

and croissant is terrible in hl.

if bad geometry isn't a good reason to hate a map then ctf_mach4 is perfect

Can you even fit 18 people on mach4?

mach4 is bad because it's not a perfect mirror, one color has advantage

no but you can fit 32 on upward

viaduct is now as bad as mach4

viaduct's is incredibly minor

on mach4 one team gets instantly better position on the mid fight and wins

I agree that mach4 is a horrible map for a lot of reasons including that one, but let's not pretend that it's because of the symmetry style, which it identically shares with viaduct.

I don't think having screwy geometry is a good reason to replace upward, I was trying to say: It's why I hate it, I don't mind it being taken out because I hate it. I wasn't trying to justify it like that. Once we have the inevitable lot of much better maps, though, I think people will be glad to replace it if they know their guts.

is cevo making a highlander league?

Sounds more fun than a serious season. Which can't be all that bad.

its on the ugc hl downloads page http://www.ugcleague.com/files_tf2h.cfm

Turbine was trash. Vitalism was honestly a lot more fluid and fast-paced. I dont like ctf period, but im we're done with turbine.

Getting rid of pl_upward for a season I understand. We have a lot of decent PL maps right now. I wouldnt argue swiftwater is better than upward, but its still a decent competitive map.

However, we dont have a lot of good koth maps. Id say the only really good one from previous seasons was ashville (viaduct is the swiftwater of koth maps for me). The absolute WORST koth map was lakeside. Yet lakeside is in rotation and ashville isnt. Im just happy im not playing heavy this season. The advantages snipers and demos have on lakeside make me rage.

I might go MIA for the week of standin. Boringest map ive ever played on.

The admins actually replaced standin with upward because of the reaction to the maplist.

Thanks. I'll fix the OP.

thanks for adding upward