saamthats fucking insane if you only get 3 days to submit and after that it cant be overturned what the fuck
it cant possibly be that hard for an admin to add people who need to submit demos
As far as I know you can overturn it after 3 days if it's the first time. You can keep overturning it as long as you are able to upload the demo every single time. If you forget to record a demo and can't overturn it you get a minor. After you have a minor, the next time you forget to upload a demo in 72 hours, you get banned for 2 weeks and can't overturn the ban. When it happens a 3rd time and you don't upload a demo in 72 hours, you get 2 months and so on. I didn't know that you can't overturn a ban if it's the 2nd time and I think it's a bit harsh. I think maybe they should give you more than 72 hours and maybe make an effort to contact the player. It sucks that this has happened to sorex as the system is a little harsh imo
[quote=saam]thats fucking insane if you only get 3 days to submit and after that it cant be overturned what the fuck
it cant possibly be that hard for an admin to add people who need to submit demos[/quote]
As far as I know you can overturn it after 3 days if it's the first time. You can keep overturning it as long as you are able to upload the demo every single time. If you forget to record a demo and can't overturn it you get a minor. After you have a minor, the next time you forget to upload a demo in 72 hours, you get banned for 2 weeks and can't overturn the ban. When it happens a 3rd time and you don't upload a demo in 72 hours, you get 2 months and so on. I didn't know that you can't overturn a ban if it's the 2nd time and I think it's a bit harsh. I think maybe they should give you more than 72 hours and maybe make an effort to contact the player. It sucks that this has happened to sorex as the system is a little harsh imo
Sheepy what do you mean? I dont get it explain it please
Sheepy what do you mean? I dont get it explain it please
I like how known cheaters get the same ban lengths as prem players who didn't upload a file.
I like how known cheaters get the same ban lengths as prem players who didn't upload a file.
iZonSheepy what do you mean? I dont get it explain it please
1st time you have 72 hours to upload or else you get a minor. You can overturn your minor by uploading the demo. If you aren't able to overturn your minor then
2nd time you have 72 hours to upload or you get banned for 2 weeks
3rd time same as 2nd time and ect.
[quote=iZon]Sheepy what do you mean? I dont get it explain it please[/quote]
1st time you have 72 hours to upload or else you get a minor. You can overturn your minor by uploading the demo. If you aren't able to overturn your minor then
2nd time you have 72 hours to upload or you get banned for 2 weeks
3rd time same as 2nd time and ect.
SideshowThey requested my demo as well and gave us multiple warnings? They didn't even email me about it, checked emails and junk. This system B L O W S dude, it's insanely broken.
They requested yours and Tek's demo (he played for the other team but he's on your roster) so that's probably where the warnings came from.
[quote=Sideshow]They requested my demo as well and gave us multiple warnings? They didn't even email me about it, checked emails and junk. This system B L O W S dude, it's insanely broken.[/quote]
They requested yours and Tek's demo (he played for the other team but he's on your roster) so that's probably where the warnings came from.
wrechedddddI genuinely thought this was about this Lego company.
I had a fucking panic attack.
[quote=wrecheddddd]I genuinely thought this was about this Lego company.[/quote]
I had a fucking panic attack.
how is the system broken if its been in place for multiple seasons?
players being ignorant or lazy doesnt make the system bad.
a year is harsh punishment, but youre acting like they had no idea it was coming or that it was a rule lol.
how is the system broken if its been in place for multiple seasons?
players being ignorant or lazy doesnt make the system bad.
a year is harsh punishment, but youre acting like they had no idea it was coming or that it was a rule lol.
ETF2L is such a joke at this point.
I thought the demo rule was there to be able to determine if someone cheated, in case it was a suspicion. Scout/sniper players? Okay I guess. A soldier on a team that didn't have any overkill 5-0 results? What the fuck.
NightGoatwrechedddddI genuinely thought this was about this Lego company.
I had a fucking panic attack.
They paid their employees like 3 months pay in xmas bonus. They couldn't be better off.
ETF2L is such a joke at this point.
I thought the demo rule was there to be able to determine if someone cheated, in case it was a suspicion. Scout/sniper players? Okay I guess. A soldier on a team that didn't have any overkill 5-0 results? What the fuck.
[quote=NightGoat][quote=wrecheddddd]I genuinely thought this was about this Lego company.[/quote]
I had a fucking panic attack.[/quote]
They paid their employees like 3 months pay in xmas bonus. They couldn't be better off.
flamehow is the system broken if its been in place for multiple seasons?
players being ignorant or lazy doesnt make the system bad.
a year is harsh punishment, but youre acting like they had no idea it was coming or that it was a rule lol.
This broken system has been in place for multiple seasons and gets complained about every time it has an effect. The length of time it has been in place has no effect on whether it's good or bad.
They did have no idea it was coming, because they failed to notify the players properly, and they chose an arbitrary length for the punishment which is mentioned nowhere in the rules.
[quote=flame]how is the system broken if its been in place for multiple seasons?
players being ignorant or lazy doesnt make the system bad.
a year is harsh punishment, but youre acting like they had no idea it was coming or that it was a rule lol.[/quote]
This broken system has been in place for multiple seasons and gets complained about every time it has an effect. The length of time it has been in place has no effect on whether it's good or bad.
They did have no idea it was coming, because they failed to notify the players properly, and they chose an arbitrary length for the punishment which is mentioned nowhere in the rules.
They are already unbanned again
LEGO IS ALIVE
They are already unbanned again
LEGO IS ALIVE
on one hand it's really stupid to get banned for this especially if there is a shitty system
ON THE OTHER
http://i.imgur.com/CMZ0PR4.png
you'd figure after getting banned even once you'd get on your shit
on one hand it's really stupid to get banned for this especially if there is a shitty system
ON THE OTHER
[img]http://i.imgur.com/CMZ0PR4.png[/img]
you'd figure after getting banned even once you'd get on your shit
While a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules. While UGC states they mandate the recording of demos, the consequences for not submitting your demos is a one-week ban. UGC doesn't randomly request demos like ETF2L does, but in the case of asking suspected cheaters for demos, it's better to withhold your demos and take a week's suspension than it is to submit your demos and be banned for longer if you were confirmed cheating.
While a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules. While UGC states they mandate the recording of demos, the consequences for not submitting your demos is a one-week ban. UGC doesn't randomly request demos like ETF2L does, but in the case of asking suspected cheaters for demos, it's better to withhold your demos and take a week's suspension than it is to submit your demos and be banned for longer if you were confirmed cheating.
How is 3 times 2 months and 4 times a year that's an arbitrarily big jump.
How is 3 times 2 months and 4 times a year that's an arbitrarily big jump.
HidiWhile a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules. While UGC states they mandate the recording of demos, the consequences for not submitting your demos is a one-week ban. UGC doesn't randomly request demos like ETF2L does, but in the case of asking suspected cheaters for demos, it's better to withhold your demos and take a week's suspension than it is to submit your demos and be banned for longer if you were confirmed cheating.
Nice, way to tell everyone how to get away with hacking in UGC
[quote=Hidi]While a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules. While UGC states they mandate the recording of demos, the consequences for not submitting your demos is a one-week ban. UGC doesn't randomly request demos like ETF2L does, but in the case of asking suspected cheaters for demos, it's better to withhold your demos and take a week's suspension than it is to submit your demos and be banned for longer if you were confirmed cheating.[/quote]
Nice, way to tell everyone how to get away with hacking in UGC
HidiWhile a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules.
In sorex's case they aren't. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a 1 year ban can be given out for not uploading demos. The longest ban given in the rules for not uploading demos is 2 months meaning the year ban was essentially arbitrary.
[quote=Hidi]While a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules.[/quote]
In sorex's case they aren't. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a 1 year ban can be given out for not uploading demos. The longest ban given in the rules for not uploading demos is 2 months meaning the year ban was essentially arbitrary.
Rule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.
Rule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.
NeuTronasRule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.
The whole point behind the rule is (mostly) AC related, and STV demos don't cut it when it comes to reviewing a potential cheater.
[quote=NeuTronas]Rule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.[/quote]
The whole point behind the rule is (mostly) AC related, and STV demos don't cut it when it comes to reviewing a potential cheater.
NeuTronasRule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.
They provided the requested demos, so they got unbanned. That's how it has always been, no?
[quote=NeuTronas]Rule should have been changed when STV demos became a thing.
However prem players shouldn't have exceptions for the rules, so I feel like unbans were a bit unfair to other players who have been banned for same reason before.[/quote]
They provided the requested demos, so they got unbanned. That's how it has always been, no?
Should have some sort of popup on the homepage of etf2l, not hard to implement that
Should have some sort of popup on the homepage of etf2l, not hard to implement that
DavidTheWinHidiWhile a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules.
In sorex's case they aren't. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a 1 year ban can be given out for not uploading demos. The longest ban given in the rules for not uploading demos is 2 months meaning the year ban was essentially arbitrary.
It was not arbitrary sorex is not the first person to not upload 4 demos, and the previous person who didnt got 1 year. It may not be written down but the system is fair.
As for everyone saying this is unfair, they failed multiple times and for example if someone is cheating their demos get requested the first time they get away with it because of a minor, then two weeks, then two months, then a year.
If a person has failed 4 demo requests and has failed to supply the demos at any point that is fishy as fuck. The demo punishments have to be strict because it is the only way etf2l can do Anti-Cheat, they have no 3rd party anticheat software all they have is demos and if they cant get them they have almost nothing to go with. I dont know about you but I would rather not play with cheaters than have cheaters be able to play because even after their 4th failure to upload demos they only get 2 months like what other people are suggesting.
Sorex or josh, if they had any of the demos that were previously requested they could have submitted them later after the 72 hours but they did not. That process was repeated 4 and 3 times respectively. So they are either both very careless, dont care about the system or their ability to play in etf2l, or are cheating in some of their games.
[quote=DavidTheWin][quote=Hidi]While a year is harsh, at least they're enforcing rules.[/quote]
In sorex's case they aren't. Nowhere in the rules does it state that a 1 year ban can be given out for not uploading demos. The longest ban given in the rules for not uploading demos is 2 months meaning the year ban was essentially arbitrary.[/quote]
It was not arbitrary sorex is not the first person to not upload 4 demos, and the previous person who didnt got 1 year. It may not be written down but the system is fair.
As for everyone saying this is unfair, they failed multiple times and for example if someone is cheating their demos get requested the first time they get away with it because of a minor, then two weeks, then two months, then a year.
If a person has failed 4 demo requests and has failed to supply the demos at any point that is fishy as fuck. The demo punishments have to be strict because it is the only way etf2l can do Anti-Cheat, they have no 3rd party anticheat software all they have is demos and if they cant get them they have almost nothing to go with. I dont know about you but I would rather not play with cheaters than have cheaters be able to play because even after their 4th failure to upload demos they only get 2 months like what other people are suggesting.
Sorex or josh, if they had any of the demos that were previously requested they could have submitted them later after the 72 hours but they did not. That process was repeated 4 and 3 times respectively. So they are either both very careless, dont care about the system or their ability to play in etf2l, or are cheating in some of their games.
It's one thing to not submit demos because you're cheating but it's quite another to not submit demos because the demos requested were 6 weeks old and you had no indication the demos were even requested (Josh said he got an email but Sideshow had no communication) without looking at the match page. That's a failure on the league's side not the player's side.
It's one thing to not submit demos because you're cheating but it's quite another to not submit demos because the demos requested were 6 weeks old and you had no indication the demos were even requested (Josh said he got an email but Sideshow had no communication) without looking at the match page. That's a failure on the league's side not the player's side.
- We will always write an explanation on the match page
- We send an email about demo requests.
- After 72 hours we will issue a warning on the match page
- The warning will show on the team page until the end of the season
- The warning will be emailed to the team
These steps have been taken Three times in Josh' case and four times in sorex' case.
And if people complain requesting these demos is useless because there is no way they are cheating, that's the point. They're great players and analysing these demos is a good exercise for our AC to see if their tool and knowledge can distinguish between cheats and proper gameplay.
And for sideshow, if you or your team didn't get mails about demo requests, scheduling matches or warnings, please verify that the correct addresses are filled at the dashboard. You have trialed as an admin in the past so I assume you have an idea how the backend of our system works.
[list]
[*] We will always write an explanation on the match page
[*] We send an email about demo requests.
[*] After 72 hours we will issue a warning on the match page
[*] The warning will show on the team page until the end of the season
[*] The warning will be emailed to the team
[/list]
These steps have been taken [b]Three[/b] times in Josh' case and [b]four[/b] times in sorex' case.
And if people complain requesting these demos is useless because there is no way they are cheating, that's the point. They're great players and analysing these demos is a good exercise for our AC to see if their tool and knowledge can distinguish between cheats and proper gameplay.
And for sideshow, if you or your team didn't get mails about demo requests, scheduling matches or warnings, please verify that the correct addresses are filled at the dashboard. You have trialed as an admin in the past so I assume you have an idea how the backend of our system works.
They have been unbanned, the world is right once again...
They have been unbanned, the world is right once again...
DamnEasyShould have some sort of popup on the homepage of etf2l, not hard to implement that
I agree the website could be a lot better, I remember getting a demo request from a match that happened like 3 months ago and getting a warning from it, was ridiculous. If they make it clear you got to keep your demos for x amount of time, write it in the rules.
However if you do it multiple times, it does become suspicious - Admins are making a statement about how seriously they take AC, which I support but they can still learn from this and make their rules a little bit more transparent. The only thing that frustrates me about ETF2L is if they get criticism, they will never take it as valid and dismiss it as a witch hunt. In my view they were perfectly justified if only they had a bit more transparency in the rules, you don't need Kkaltuu or Permzilla to come on here to defend their stance, all they need to do is link you to the rule page which every top player should always read and know before a season.
I am just glad it's all sorted out and Sorex and Josh are back, lessons learned all around.
[quote=DamnEasy]Should have some sort of popup on the homepage of etf2l, not hard to implement that[/quote]
I agree the website could be a lot better, I remember getting a demo request from a match that happened like 3 months ago and getting a warning from it, was ridiculous. If they make it clear you got to keep your demos for x amount of time, write it in the rules.
However if you do it multiple times, it does become suspicious - Admins are making a statement about how seriously they take AC, which I support but they can still learn from this and make their rules a little bit more transparent. The only thing that frustrates me about ETF2L is if they get criticism, they will never take it as valid and dismiss it as a witch hunt. In my view they were perfectly justified if only they had a bit more transparency in the rules, you don't need Kkaltuu or Permzilla to come on here to defend their stance, all they need to do is link you to the rule page which every top player should always read and know before a season.
I am just glad it's all sorted out and Sorex and Josh are back, lessons learned all around.
retarded admins ✓
making up rules as you go along ✓
admin discretion ✓
FUCK ETF2L
retarded admins ✓
making up rules as you go along ✓
admin discretion ✓
FUCK ETF2L
Vegan_MeatI like how known cheaters get the same ban lengths as prem players who didn't upload a file.
Because someone who failed to upload demo 4 times in a row is likely to be cheating aswell? The rule about demos is stupid though. You basically have the "I can cheat one time and say I forgot to record a demo" ace up your sleeve. If TF2 was bigger as an esport, this would've been abused as fuck.
[quote=Vegan_Meat]I like how known cheaters get the same ban lengths as prem players who didn't upload a file.[/quote]
Because someone who failed to upload demo 4 times in a row is likely to be cheating aswell? The rule about demos is stupid though. You basically have the "I can cheat one time and say I forgot to record a demo" ace up your sleeve. If TF2 was bigger as an esport, this would've been abused as fuck.
People should just upload their demo to Mediafire, Dropbox, Flash drive or heck, even to ETF2L directly after they played their official, in order to prevent the loss of demos and thus the ban on ETF2L. It takes few minutes after an official to simply upload it to somewhere safe.
People should just upload their demo to Mediafire, Dropbox, Flash drive or heck, even to ETF2L directly after they played their official, in order to prevent the loss of demos and thus the ban on ETF2L. It takes few minutes after an official to simply upload it to somewhere safe.
german admins protect the german star players from bans
0 demos reviewed
german admins protect the german star players from bans
0 demos reviewed