https://twitter.com/pmu_english/status/742168309936717824

This is the most hypocritical thing I've ever seen. Like the PMU wouldn't do the same thing if given the chance.

do you have any idea what the expenses for psychological exams on people are? do you know how easy it is to fake your mental condition, and how much more expensive it would be to disprove those people?

so what do you suggest, doing all those psychological exams on everyone with gun ownership? in 2013, there were almost as many guns as people, 1 in 3 households have guns

i agree that the gun law debate needs to stop because people think they need to get guns while they're still available, what actually needs to happen is that the government needs to pay off every person to turn their guns in and rethink gun laws once and for all

this will probably damage the US economy, but you have the pick between giving people their so precious "freedom" or making it easier for mentally-unstable or undereducated people to cause firearm-related homicides

http://www.shootingtracker.com/w/images/a/a0/2015_Mass_Shootings.jpg
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/134DB/production/_85876097_homicides_guns_624_v3.png
http://everytownresearch.org/school-shootings/
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/more-than-50-of-us-government-spending-goes-to-the-military/18852

If you're gonna have roads, you're gonna have roadkill. As long as humans have means and the will to kill eachother, this is what they're gonna do.
Government can only do so much – tighten up gun control, build the best mental healthcare facilities ever and have the most efficient law enforcement in the entire planet. But what could ever be done to stop hate?

:(

The last estimate was that there were around 400 million guns in one form or another in this country. To be more detailed, that is about 400 million guns that we "know about". Meaning we can track the gun in one form or another or have tracked the gun in the past at one time be it a construction date, shipping date, purchase date, etc.

That 400 million number does not include any guns that have entered this country illegally or say guns that were passed on from father to son for generations and are not registered in any form. Nobody knows the real total of how many actual guns are in America.

That said, I don't see how any logical person can just say things like "every person turn in their guns" or "ban guns". Some have even suggested that the government should go house to house and collect guns from residents.

Collecting 400 to 500 million guns from all over the country would end up being a more time consuming and epic undertaking than building the Pyramids of Egypt. Gun Collection, the 8th wonder of the World in America.

done successfully in several counties before (i would give you the source if i could find it)

You can find the source for a country collecting 400+ million guns?

deporting 11 million illegals? outrageous!

taking 400+ million legal guns and more illegal ones? can do.

bad reading comprehension? i said counties, not the whole nation

My mistake for misreading a word, no need to get your cunt hairs in a bunch.

Are you really trying to compare a few counties to the country as a whole? I would love to see your numbers in either case.

most crime in the U.S. is in a few cities.

you're not going to be able to take all the guns away from even one of those counties.

It's ridiculous to think one would be able to disarm any county with a significant crime rate, and besides non-organized (drugs+gangs) homicides are hardly a problem in the US, especially outside of the 3 crime hotspots.

This kind of terrorism is becoming more and more common place nowadays and I just don't get why Islam gets a free ride... Like we have to just look the other way and pretend like the problem doesn't exist. There is no comparison to say modern day christians or budhists or even scientologists they are not actively overthrowing entire countries and had mass killings and mass rapes and in some cases genocide (even John Kerry publicly stated that ISIS is comiting genocide)... in the last year the states have been hit twice, paris was hit, brussels was hit, mass rapes in germany and likely there are more terrorist attacks that occurred that I'm unaware of. And what?!? Nope, I'm supposed to pretend that there is no violant muslim groups, it's not something we need to be concerned about.... it's one dumbest things I've ever seen.
-frag away

Am I the only one that looks at the states and sees them as absolutely insane? They have trump and clinton as presidential candidates, mass shootings are more or less the norm every 2 or 3 months people are more radicalized now then they where during the cold war and they argue about fucking carry rights and how its the end of the world of somthing was to happen to them. And thats just the start of the list. Holy fuck I just dont even...

I love when Europeans come into these threads and talk about how the US should try and have stricter gun control. They don't understand that the majority of US citizens are a special kind of crazy. It's depressing how people from the US don't stop and think "gun related violence (and murder rates in general) are lower in all these European countries, I wonder if that has anything to do with the wide availability of guns in the US?", even when these threads make it clear that the majority of people from other countries view US gun laws as worrisome at best and crazy at worst. The mentality of your typical american where they think they know better than the rest of the world is troubling and shows up in more issues than just gun control. It's rather sad.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/image/27549-1pykz2g.png a map comparing US murder rates to some other "first world" countries, for those unaware.

The average person is substantially more likely to be killed by themselves or their friend if they own a gun

denying rights based on diagnosed illnesses is already a hairy situation, unless you're going to make anyone who has a single psych exam go through multiple more just to be cleared to own a gun your suggestion won't do much. If you did do that, the legal precedent it would set would be horrible: the US is allowed to take away constitutional rights at their discretion.

Also the debate over right to die isn't settled in the US at all

yes, but you don't need to build the roads next to an elementary school for the blind and not put up a fence

comparing guns to roads is stupid anyway since guns offer basically no utility to 95% of the US population, and people who use theirs to hunt aren't doing it with AR15s and handguns

paying citizens off to turn in their guns is a one-time expense whereas several psychological exams on them are an every-day expense (or however you put it)

your point being that people should address the "real issue". the issue are mentally unstable and undereducated ones, but you have no imagination of the costs of your suggestions. im going to go ahead and say that 20 hours are barely enough to distinguish a mentally ill person from a normal one. do you know the hourly wage of a psychotherspist?

also, once word comes around that people have to get examined, a shitton of them are going to acquire another shitton of guns, just like everytime this shit is up for debate. plus, mentally-ill ones are likely to have family members or friends who are allowed to legally own guns. examining people makes it barely any harder for them to go on a spree.

take europe, black market guns are unaffordable for your average school shooter/neighbourhood criminal. gun licenses are only given out to some citizens that need them for their job or respected members of gun associations

does this make it impossible for anyone to go on a spree? no, but it definitely stops most from even bothering with it

Terrorism has nothing to do with islam true they're muslims but not real muslims, They have they're own islam rules
And there is tons of terrorists Not only arab are terrorist

Until we have a crystal ball that accurately predicts the future people are going to kill other people. The concept that everything like this is preventable is very foolish. Whether it's with guns or with vehicles or with drugs or explosives or any other of the hundreds of thousands of ways you can murder. Making firearms against the law is just about as effective as making alcohol and pot or pirating free music off the internet against the law.

Plus you can just make weapons out of ordinary things like for example the boston marathon where they used pressure cookers for the attack.

This is an awful, outrageous tragedy, but we're still sitting here having the same debate about guns that we have after every single big mass shooting that gets into the media.

There has been some 133 mass shootings in the US so far this year. There has only been 90 days without a mass shooting in the US this year. And even though everyone debates the need for guns, nothing changes. So what's the point?

http://www.nrc.nl/next/2015/02/28/een-ak-47-voor-412-euro-1469046 translate to english the article but yea an AK for 400 euros. I'm European but i think the second amendment and gun possession are viable ways to keep an armed and vigilant society coupled with personal self-responsibility and culture is a good thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

http://i.imgur.com/K2ohqMb.jpg

who wins?

http://i.imgur.com/TET24zi.jpg

Speaking for just the US here,

The first statistic they throw out there (from an anti islam site) is 121 people killed in the US over 10 years

thats about 10 deaths per year

in comparison,

automobile accidents claim ~30,000 deaths a year

If you had to choose between reducing the amount of automobile accidents by just 1% or completely eliminating islamic terrorism in the US for the next 10 years, you would save 3000 lives vs 120 lives

heck, autoerotic asphyxiation kills about 200 people a year, wheres the media frenzy over that?

This huge focus on blaming all of Islam for this "as a hateful ideology" for this is fear mongering. Why would you fault a group of 3.3 million Americans for the faults of a handful? It's ridiculous. Condemn the extremists, sure.

That's not a good comparison at all, very silly to be honest. These are murders not accidents.

You're completely ignoring what's happening with Islam globally. You can't ignore large scale killing and rape and all kinds of violence. You can't ignore why there are millions of refuges, millions of people fleeing their country running for their lives. Terrorist attacks are becoming more common in states and in Europe that's the trend that's what people are concerned about. They don't want to see that trend continue getting worse, and it's not a handful of extremists anymore.

Independent polling shows that a majority (51%) agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.”

and

Nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

and

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country.

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

There's also pew research polls with similar results.

that was really mean of him to kill all those peoples without any concrete reasoning! :*(

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/center-security-policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy

Its hard for me to take an online poll by a controversial conservative group very seriously.

Heck, even if a 1/4 of them ostensibly agree with the extremists (and keep that belief to themselves, mind you), those people aren't taking any action or doing anything illegal. Are we doing thought crime now?

Why should we value online opinion polls over the actual statistics of what is happening?

Furthermore, whats wrong with the comparison? Then just compare it to the general murder rate, which is like 16000 a year. point still applies.

Shit lets focus on obesity, our food and eating habits are way more dangerous than any terrorist organization

I'm also not saying we shouldn't address Islamic extremism and try to find ways to reduce it

However if you want to do that, you've failed by generalizing and lumping all Muslims into that category. General anti-Islamic rhetoric only gives extremists ammo

The comparison is completely invalid. Accidents are not intentional, murder is. And you can't compare one incident to all incidents...they need to be looked at case by case if you want to make a valid comparison, instead of a oversimplified generalization. What makes this shooting so important is the fact that it is the largest of it's kind ever. And also look at what some local Islamic leaders were saying just 2 months ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ Is this not something to be concerned about?

Like I said there is independent polling that gives similar results and I think it's foolish to bury our heads in the sand and pretend like there isn't a problem.

The fact that the deaths are intentional is irrelevant, the point is that it is just not as important as an issue in the scheme of things

once again, if you disagree just replace the statistics with general homicide rates, my point still holds

Local christian leader calls for death of gays! Just 3 months ago.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/trump-supporters-demand-ted-cruz-disavow-firebrand-kill-the-gays-pastor/news-story/7ef3873a38600f733b0d5e4e9b1bc904

Hell yea its something to concerned about. No, it doesn't mean we should generalize the christian religion as being violent.

Like I said "I'm also not saying we shouldn't address Islamic extremism and try to find ways to reduce it"

There is a problem. It requires nuance to address it, not fear mongering. even your own polls reveal that the majority of Muslims are against violence. Objecting to these vast generalizations is "not burying your head in the sand", its called being accurate.

I can't see how you can possibly say that it is not as important of an issue when there are millions upon millions of people fleeing their countries at the moment. There's genocide going on and just because it's not currently in the united states it doesn't mean it isn't a very serious problem.

This isn't a typical murder you can't put it in that category, this was unprecedented act of terror.

Fact of the matter is within Islam you have Jihad and you have Sharia law which even their own leaders state is incompatible with western values.

If modern Christians were overthrowing entire countries, doing largescale enslavement and rape and calling for mass slaughter I would be on their ass just as much or more as Islamic terrorists.