http://f.tqn.com/y/bowling/1/L/Z/2/-/-/bowling_ball_holding_6427-000208.jpg

ahh...1 in pink 1 in stink to help distribute the weight

I personally, and probably a fair chunk of "Trump supporters" just think that Hillary is way worse than Trump.
This election is essentially a corrupt criminal vs a clueless dickhead. Which would you go with?

I'd go with a clueless dickhead who can at least learn things from their advisors, rather than a corrupt criminal who'd most probably end up abusing the shit out of the power they have.

Thats funny because for months on end I clearly remember /r/politics being desperately anti-clinton and pro-bernie to the point of absurdity

if anything this election should have taught you guys so far its that trump cannot listen to advice to save his life, nor does he intend to

wow breaking news trump is a retard

I don't think so... Donald doesn't seem to like the color brown

after comparing both the pasts and positions clinton and trump stand on, i was just about to make the conclusion that i would rather my vote go to trump - until you called me INSANE for doing so! you really brought me to reality there man, it was truly day and night all along lol. thanks again, i owe you one!

Of course this isn't going to convince diehard Trump fans, but he's already doing bad with women voters, who are absolutely essential if he wants to win, and this definitely didn't improve his chances. If Sunday goes anything more than disastrous for Clinton (which unless Trump magically started learning how to prepare for a debate shouldn't be a problem), her campaign will start focusing on critical senate races. Trump simply doesn't have enough time to regain the ground he lost after the first debate.

Odds aside, from a European perspective it is absolutely mind-boggling how a clown like Trump got past the primaries. His policy positions are awful and exactly zero of the made up charges against Clinton (Foundation, emails, Benghazi, BILL IS A RAPIST!!!11!) have turned up anything substantial. Thank fucking God we're unlikely to have to deal with a POTUS who thinks NATO is a protection racket and that trade surplus is the central issue for economic policy.

I prefer the guillotine myself.

When you have the fbi director, potus, google, and media in your pocket it's pretty easy to make it seem like nothing substantial has turned up to those who only take a passing interest and those who are willfully ignorant. The truth is just a few searches away for people who can actually be bothered to find it.

can anyone do an eli5 on why i shouldn't vote for hillary/shouldn't vote for trump?

thanks :)

The reason incumbent's win so often is because so few people make an educated vote. They just vote for the name they recognize. Being educated and trying to help educate others about local elections is huge.

Trump is a bully/says retarded things and Hillary is a liar/criminal. Make ur choice

What's this?!?!? An opinion differing than mine?!?! No way!!!

'I totally have credible sources for my claims (which I'm not going to name, but they definitely are out there) and despite the huge conspiracy that worked together to keep Hillary from going to jail for multiple felonies these sources are easy to find using the very site I just claimed is in on aforementioned conspiracy. By the way, unlike all those other media organizations, the site whose chairman is the head of the Trump campaign is definitely unbiased, honest'

I don't really follow trump much but to me the issue with Hillary is just that she never tells the truth about anything and only cares about advancing her own "private" agenda. That's a lot more dangerous than an idiot/racist/whatever, and trump has proven he can at least hire people to somewhat make up for his own stupidity (eg pence).

The sources are her own emails lmao. Her denying them being real doesn't prove shit, I bet 90% of the people in jail would tell you they didn't do it. As for the bill clinton rape and the classified info on a private server issues, those are pretty well common knowledge at this point but there are hundreds of articles about all of that. Here are a few of the most damning things against clinton imo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/tracking-the-clinton-controversies-from-whitewater-to-benghazi/396182/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Rf89LBzUs
http://nypost.com/2016/10/06/fbi-agents-are-ready-to-revolt-over-the-cozy-clinton-probe/
https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/

statement 1: alleged statements from a book written by a former lover of bill clinton, with a foreword by the chief of the impeachment committee that worked towards bill being removed from office. seems to be clear bias there with nothing truly on record. (source 1 and 2)

statement 2: same as above but reportedly said by bill, not hillary. (source 1 and 2)

statement 3: same as above. not caught on record as source 1/2 says. (source 1 and 2)

statement 4: from 1996, and she apologized. those views likely do not have a place in this race, especially as she is not championing the same stance as she did back in 1996 when she was supporting the crime bill that speech was referring to. call that a flip-flop, but i would call it a simple change in opinion, comment aside. (sources 3, 5, and 6)

statement 5: same as above. (sources 3, 5, and 6)

source 4: no statement from this one, likely because:
1) hillary likely didnt write the joke
2) the actual derogatory statement WAS NOT said by her, and
3) there was a black person ON STAGE and IN ON THE JOKE. as awful as the joke is, this was clearly not masterminded by hillary.

Breaking News
https://www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1802#searchresult

Clinton Confirmed HIDING ALIENS

"Remember, our nonviolent ETI from the contiguous universe are helping us bring zero point energy to Earth. They will not tolerate any forms of military violence on Earth or in space."

hi, indiana resident here

mike pence is the worst governor this state has ever had, and it's not that close. he is definitely not going to be making up for anyone's stupidity, least of all trump's. His record on education, business, and general 'doing what the people want' is beyond awful. The only reason he looks palatable in this election is because his running mate is the worst presidential candidate any of us have ever seen in our lives.

I KNEW SHE WAS AN ALIEN
ALL THE PROOF I NEED

Say what you want to say about Trump, but my vote isn't going towards putting someone who has committed crimes in the White House.

you are aware this means both of them right? :smug:

While there are valid arguments to be made against Clinton, you have to do better than this. Deciding who to vote for in a presidential election should come down to a single issue: Who would do the best job as president of the United States?

Now, of course, "best" is a subjective term. Depending on your values, opinions, wishes, and personal standing, different aspects of each candidate have greater or lesser importance- but this should only be based on the decisions they would make as president.

I don't think "This person has committed a crime (or crimes)" is a very strong argument.

I think a criminal would be a worse president than a bully who sometimes says dumb shit

can u name one us president that hasn't commited a crime during or before legislative session

I'd like to think Hillary is a special kind of criminal. I mean come on, anyone who is a Trump supporter or the "We're all fucked!!" kind of person agree's that shes committed too many crimes to not be in jail. Every politician can be seen as a sleaze-bag in some way, but she goes beyond that level more than a lot of other presidents.

I want trump to win so the 2020 election can be trump vs kanye

Dankest debates imaginable

the lady has been a DNC member for most of her life, of course she's going to be friends with the people running the party lmao. That doesn't mean she did anything wrong.

You posted actual evidence but I'm too biased to really call it rigging the entire primary. I can see how they can be interpreted as trying to throw Sanders under the bus but I think you're reaching to say it means they tried to rig it. Both of them are party officials trying to keep their party working smoothly and on track going to the general. They wanted to get rid of the Bernie BS because he was (and has) done a lot to shape the nature of the Democratic platform, and the DNC didn't want an outside candidate throwing their plans for the general out of wack. Trying to prevent Bernie's supporters from making claims of rigging or forcing a contested convention is definitely fucking him over, but its not like they're taking a candidate who was likely to win and holding him down. Trying to keep an outsider from walking onto the ballet and exploding your entire party isn't something I really see as bad, and I'm a pretty fuckin big Sanders supporter.

The evidence that the DNC rigged the election is minimal and mostly relies on believing that the DNC had the sway to control the media narrative. Considering that this same narrative that they were supposedly controlling is what led to Trump being nominated and the whole pneumonia thing blowing up, I think its kinda fair to conclude that the DNC wasn't tipping the media narrative significantly. The evidence that the DNC was acting directly under Clinton's orders is nonexistent.

I'm relatively aware of what's been accused, but I haven't seen any actual firsthand evidence showing something sketchy happened so I'm maintaining skepticism. Sanders lost by nearly 3 million votes, as well as having absolutely abysmal numbers with certain key demographics, like blacks and older / more reliable voters. You can argue about how lack of exposure is responsible, and if you wan to go full tinfoil hat you can say the DNC tried to suppress media outlets that these demographics used, but it isn't like even towards the end of the primary he suddenly became popular with them. This means that Sanders's platform wasn't popular with key demographics of the primary and Dem voter base. Its fairly easy to see why he would lose a closed Democratic race. Considering he was unlikely to win just on demographics alone, rigging the election would've been stupid as shit for the DNC. Even if you took all of the discarded or disenfranchised votes and awarded them to Sanders he'dve still lost. I don't see how people seem to think he lost because of illegal shit rather than he just lost because he only talked about millennial white kid issues

literally none of that has anything to do with the claim that Hillary herself was rigging shit as well, which literally no one has proven

nor has anyone proven anything beyond the DNC didn't like Bernie and wanted to support their friend / preferred candidate when possible, but apparently that's corrupt or something? idk

its funny that you think someone would shill on a forum for a dead video game tho

lets assume that clinton has actually committed crimes

this woman has managed to dodge nearly two decades of federal investigations while living in one of the most well inspected and visible bubbles possible

she's clearly so fucking powerful that she can pull strings, like getting a Republican FBI director to not indict her even when it was pretty obvious to everyone who wasn't a lawyer she was breaking the law, convince 7 separate investigations over 33 different hearings that her apparently obvious fuckup in Benghazi wasn't real, convince most of the DNC to risk their career by supporting her and rigging the primary without using any email or traceable method of communication, hide having some combination of cancer/AIDS/Alzheimers/pneumonia from everyone, or convince a charity rating foundation that her illegal embezzlement front was actually quite efficient, so I don't really see why she'd want to be president.

of course the more realistic option is that Clinton is both (relatively) clean and people keep trying to make up birther level scandals out of things that they don't understand.

honestly the ego of anyone who thinks that at this point she wouldn't be in jail if she had done something is disgusting. Clearly you're smarter than multiple GOP committees that wanted nothing more than to knock out the next Democratic candidate lmao

~~~~~
also mike pence is responsible for making the HIV rates in a bunch of Indiana towns approach central African levels. he's pretty evil

It's not particularly fashionable to say this, but I don't think this should be what deters people from voting for Trump. People should preclude themselves from ever considering checking the box next to his name because he's an impulsive retard whose knowledge about global and domestic policy is frighteningly diminutive. Plenty of good leaders are callous assholes in their personal lives, but as long as it doesn't influence policy (sometimes it does, but often it doesn't) I don't really care. If you think Trump's comments are a microcosm of how horribly he'd treat the American people and our foreign allies, then by all means revel in how this is going to destroy him. But if you were considering voting Trump and THIS is what made you do the 180, I'm not sure how I feel about that.

reasons to avoid Trump:
very unsavory character
literally the candidate with the LEAST amount of public works experience ever, bottom 4 if you don't count military as public service
has large scale support from white nationalists; electing him will likely solidify the alt-right and modern white nationalism
policy plans are pretty sparse
policy plans are inconsistent with both previous iterations and the party policy
policy plans are very right-authoritarian and likely to be interpreted as fascist by many
possibly done some illegal things regarding taxes, cuba, and paying contractors

Clinton:
horribly awkward public speaker
probably the least healthy candidate in modern memory (old age + sedentary)
very well laid out policy plans that are likely too globalist or too left leaning for many
as a washington insider her election would likely contribute to even more entrenched political dynasties and partisanship
probably done some insider trading before
likely to continue the Obama doctrine of droning everything

reasons to avoid both:
the SCOTUS is likely to have several vacancies in the following term, meaning either one will swing the court to their party's side for a long time
the midterms of 2018 will be important leading into the census in regards to districting and gerrymandering. Electing a weak candidate could cost their party the house and senate for a long time, at least until 2030
they're both very likely corrupt to some (large) degree
there's a serious chance more than one 3rd party will get significant voter turnout this year, leading to an even more diverse discussion for 2020