crossbow and ubersaw are pretty overpowered

Yeah, I wanted to put the crossbow at first, but hesitated. The problem is that the crossbow is too good in its core concept. I can maybe think of some nerfs though, but nothing that gets to the point where the other primaries are viable.

But yeah, Übersaw it's pretty obvious and I don't know how I missed that.

Thanks!

crossbow nerf: make it exactly like it was before (slower reload, doesn't passively reload.)

ubersaw is anything but overpowered lmao please don't spread more misinformation than is already out there

I mean it's a lot more powerful compared to the other melee weapons (except the Vita-Saw). It's pretty much essential.

I'll delete it anyway, its balance state is pretty controversial.

And maybe remove the Über on hit?

watch itx vs 2-19 and watch bulk, its all i need to say

i get why the xbow is op, but can u explain why the ubersaw is op

Why is the razorback on your list? It's in no way op. It takes up a slot just to block a single backstab from a class that can kill you in 2 shots in a second at that range anyway (Amby hs and 1 regular shot)

Edit: I guess this would explain it
http://i.imgur.com/kfNShrY.png

It's a hard direct counter to one of the biggest sniper's counters, spy, which is also a very weak class countered by simple awareness. It forces the spy to use his primary, and die most of the time in a competitive setting.

It's pretty useless in pubs but broken everywhere else.

Teams play around sniper, and he gets a lot of heals. The spy is dead before he can fire his second shot.

You also took your time to look up my profile? Gosh. Of course I play steel HL, I can't commit to anything else, I just play HL with friends. So, because I play spy in a low level HL team, all my points are invalidated?

The razorback isn't even effective at low levels.

You sure are good at argumenting. If you want to show me I'm wrong, well go ahead. The razorback is a pretty controversial item. But don't just throw a screenshot of my profile to say "LUL HL NOOB", give actual points, you know.

Direct Hit.
Why?
- Easier to aim due to fast speed
- Does ridiculous damage (can literally one shot most classes in the game from full health)
- Minicrit on airshots, which it's good at doing because of reason 1
- Only downside is no splash

I know I'll get some slack for this in a competitive manner, but all it really needs is juuuust enough of a reduction that it can't oneshot classes imo, however valve works it.
The idea that it is for doing midi shots is good, the fact it just does more damage and aims easier, not so much.

Direct Hit is not so good because of that splash damage reduction. But I agree, mini-crits on airshots are a bit ridiculous.

"Why would anyone play medic? easy road 2 high div lmao"

"Hey let's make the crossbow viable so you can do amazing things as a medic and stand out from the usual 'I'm leashed to my pocket'-baddies"

And now you're complaining it's OP?

You can conserve the variety even while nerfing the crossbow a bit, keeping the core concept that makes it amazing.

It passed the "viable" state a long time ago, now it's just too good.

my spy friends bitch about the razorback because it means the sniper can just sit with the combo and never get touched. mind you they play highlander

xbow does nothing negative for the flow of the game or the skill level of medic

Crossbow is the only thing that makes playing Medic actually fun and increases the skill ceiling (mechanics wise).
What else? Tomislav OP? Bonk OP? Razorback OP? Rescue Ranger OP? I don't even want to continue...

You can nerf the crossbow while still keeping its abilities.

Tomislav > Stock in most situations

It's common knowledge that Bonk is OP

Rescue ranger is a free get ouf of jail card

I already explained for the Razorback but got proven wrong by a screenshot

You really want to nerf crossbow, but you still haven't suggested anything.
Tomislav makes a slow as fuck class a little less slow and a bit more useful at longer range. How is that OP?
What about Bonk? It could be annoying but not OP.
RR was nerfed and is not as good anymore (plus it's countered by Cow Mangler, which a lot of people are using right now).
Razorback is a joke unless you play (lol) HL.

i hate the direct hit because its the only soldier primary to kill 125 hp classes with a single rocket

its overpowered in a way because its the only med primary worth using. same goes for the ubersaw in the meele slot.
i wish they buffed the other med primaries

Did you notice 2/4 Med melee unlocks are banned?.. And Amputator isn't actually bad.

No Über gain, no passive reload.

It's better than stock. It annihilates it in almost all situations.

Send a scout to backcap with bonk with no effort, force players to chase him/go back, get an advantage push in.

Only the healing was nerfed, the ability to pick up building is still there and requires less metal than before. That's the thing about it, not only the healing.

It's still as good: push last with an uber, place stickies under the sentry just to see it go away, wasting the uber and giving the engie a free "get out of jail" card. As far as I know, Cow Mangler doesn't do anything to the rescue ranger.

Thanks for showing what's the plague splitting the competitive community. A lot of people that are new to competitive get turned down because of people like you. HL isn't as good as 6s, but people have the right to play it, and enjoy it. Just because it's HL doesn't invalidate all my points.

Dude, stop.

"Better than stock" or even "better than all the alternatives" is different to "over-powered".

Many items in the game need a tweak or a re-work, and only some of them because they are over-powered, but very few of them because they are simply objectively better than the alternatives.

First of all, I'm gonna be talking from 6s point of view because it's obviously the main comp tf2 game mode.

Uber gain actually speeds the game up, don't see how that's a downside. Maybe you love stalemates?
Passive reload is one of the factors, that make this weapon actually fun to use and increases the skill ceiling. Try playing Pyro with Flare Gun having no passive reload.

From what I know it's not even widely used in HL, where Heavy is run full time. Also not everyone uses it in 6s. Maybe not so OP?

It's not like a Scout can't backcap without Bonk. He'd have someone going back for him (or waiting for him on last) no matter what.

When enemy team pushes into your last and you pick your sentry up, you leave your team fighting with a 1 player disadvantage until you rotate and rebuild your sentry. This could actually lose you the point.

What does "overpowered" mean, then, if it doesn't mean "overpowered"?

Stock weapons are taken as references. If something is always better than stock weapons, it means it's too powerful, therefore it's overpowered.

the machina does 173 damage on body shot

Oh please don't bring the Machina back into discussion. It has a bunch of crucial downsides.

That's where your error is. Something is over-powered because what it lets you do to other players. Your alternatives are irrelevant to the over-/under-poweredness of your chosed weapon.

2 examples to help you understand:

Go back to 2007 TF2, where there are no unlocks. Double the scout's scattergun damage at all ranges. It can now 1-shot many classes at medium range. This weapon is now over-powered, despite the scout literally having no alternatives to compare it to (which your definition needs).

If you added 3 new sniper melees to the game, all 3 of which do less damage per hit and swing slower, with literally no upside (for the sake of argument), and removed all the other unlocks, you would have no real impact on the game, yet by your logic the machete has now become over-powered. You can't both be over-powered and make no change to how the game can be played, that's not how the definitions work.

I've been talking about 6s all the time, except for some weapons like the Razorback.

Except this weapon doesn't need passive reload or Über gain? It was great without any of those. If I recall correctly, people were doubtful about the Über buff. It actually builds faster than the medigun on injured targets. Maybe then, make it gain less Über, so it still speeds the game up?

It's 50/50, to be honest. But I agree it's not really one of the most OP weapons on this list.

But at least he could be killed on his way. 8 seconds of invicibility isn't the same.

Or you just rebuild immediately.