No, I just think some of them are completely ridiculous examples and the thing about Rays' dad doesn't even really have anything to do with the TF2 community.

Nobody should allow these kind of things to be a detriment to their lives, it's unnecessary and it's entirely within their control.

It's not my intention to be condescending I just think it's a genuine shame that this is happening.

Yeah I guess you're right, I just meant that if someone does something racist or that you consider offensive, call them out on it, don't just let it slide or bottle it up.

.

It deeply saddens me that Tagg went through all of this :(

I want to start off with that racial slurs aren't cool and saying them doesn't make you funny, no matter who you are.

It doesn't change the fact that these incidents should have been reported and dealt with at the time they happened. No, you shouldn't have to tell people they shouldn't be or say racist things, but that doesn't get you off the hook for not doing something about it. Instead of bottling it up like someone else said, this could have been nipped at the source when it happened.

It can be really, really hard to do this and it shouldn't be a prerequisite to being treated with basic respect. People whose personality predisposes them to internalise rather than confront prejudice are more damaged by it. It simply shouldn't happen.

Guess that can work for some people, but for a few of us it's not quiet simple when we turn around to correct we get doubled down on. I've had times I'm afraid for my safety if I stand up for myself and tell someone to knock it off, and would rather get through the day without any additional vitriol about being too PC or too stuck-up. Also the case of wanting to fit in with the crowd so desperately that you'll try and laugh it off not matter how much it hurts inside.

Even living where I am there's still a lot of things I've had said towards me. I suppose what I'm saying is, it's not as easy as it sounds.

Ok, yeah I can understand that, sorry

But this isn't real life we're talking about. We're either (in Tagg's case) talking about being online, or being in a controlled tournament environment with staff who I am sure would be more than willing to punish people for being that disrespectful. You're making a strawman argument essentially. I agree that in real life things like that can be difficult, but we're talking about very controlled environments here. Online? Tell them that isn't cool, mute them, stop associating with them, report them, whatever. You have so many options. To make the argument that your scared to simply because people might retaliate in situations where there are obviously options and punishments for doing so is just wrong.

a simple "yo could you not use that word please?" would suffice
if it doesn't then you should probably question why that guy is your friend anyways

This is something that needs to be talked about at the white list meeting. That meeting needs to be about more than just a white list, and the direction of this community needs to be debated and paved clear for all to understand. This type of attitude, what has been said to tagg (as stated in his his post), is completely unacceptable and consequences should be handed down to those who have committed and encouraged this behavior.

the most troubling part about that list is that as stomach-turning as it is, it isn't as surprising as it should be.

Not all of Tagg's examples are in those simplified situations but do you really think Twitch police this is any meaningful way? You think Esea cared? Who is the authority you go to when it's a scrim exactly? How do you stop associating with people when there's literally a tiny handful of players at the top of the game unless you stop playing? Oh look, he did. So Tagg had enough, did what you said, and has now reported them probably in the only meaningful place he can. I expect you to warmly congratulate him on his decisive action you thoroughly agree with in your next post.

Yes I agree, there needs to be a black list too; anything else would be highly inappropriate!

If people are racist on Twitch, there is a report button. If they are racist in his chat, he can ban them or even sign up for the global blacklist of words that Twitch does not allow. If none of that applies, ignore or ban them.

If ESEA doesn't care, then there needs to be serious talk about ESEA administration. Nothing that has been said has made it clear that anyone within ESEA was ever notified if there was a situation that occurred.

Yourself. You don't need a higher up to stand up for yourself online. There is an ignore function for a reason. If it's someone on your own team, I don't expect you to mute them, but I expect you to not be cool with it and let them know.

I don't even know what you're trying to say here, but I still stand with the opinion that if there were problems (and I don't doubt Tagg at all, I have no reason not to believe him, I've heard racist things plenty of times in this community - especially from higher skill players), then they should have been reported or dealt with at the time they happened so the problem could be solved, and we wouldn't be having this problem now.

I'm not sure what the downfrags are for, to be honest. I agree, there needs to be a change. I just don't agree that bottling up those problems and preventing yourself from having fun with a game you love is better than facing it head on.

????? Are you actually serious?

This is 100% "real life" we are talking about. This shit happened at LANs for fucks sake, how is that not real life? You seem to think that LAN admins are around to be school teachers that police the actions of the players, spoilers they are not. They are there to run a tournament and don't have time to go and tell idiots to fucking stop. You are disillusioned as fuck if you think that.

On top of that just telling people to stop, or muting them, or ignoring them is not something that is possible with a community that is as small as ours. If you start to ignore and mute the people that are fucking retards then literally half of the community would be muted. You say that there are systems for punishments in place but when have they ever actually done anything? The can be in place but if they are never used or acted upon they are useless.

Uh yeah, I expect them to do exactly that. If the LANs you go to don't even give you enough respect to look into things when someone is shouting racial slurs at you, then you need to start thinking about who these admins are and whether or not you should be attending.

people will always find a way to mitigate racist remarks and somehow blame the recipient of them because most people hold a lot of bigoted views and simultaneously have a need to see themselves as essentially good so they will never admit fault

nothing tagg can do about that, get off his nuts

I'll spell it out for you again as presumably while editing it out you missed the point and maybe you will understand. He is calling them out here and now, it may be delayed but it's done. He also stopped playing the game with them, that was done. He has done what you suggested, but still he is wrong. Your argument is internally inconsistent unless you are suggesting that he has to do these things in a specific time frame decided by you.

If that's the case then I suggest you need to show a bit more understanding of how complicated and difficult these things can be to deal with and respect that not everyone might want to deal with them in the same way, and that blaming the victim for not speaking up more quickly is exacerbating the problem, not offering a solution.

tbh you should have slept plat on the spot.

It's metaphorical.

You can only take so much bullshit before you get sick of it and leave.

You seem to think I'm saying I blame tagg for all the racist things said to him? Not even close. I feel awful for him, but the truth that things could have been resolved sooner does not change. He doesn't have to do anything. I'm glad he did come out and call people out, but I'm suggesting that he would not have all this pent up anger had he dealt with the situations hes explaining about then and there. I'm not blaming a victim by any stretch of your crazy imagination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqEyfh5sCBI

You seem to think that that would actually fix things...

This is victim blaming. I'm hesitant to even say that, but why is it acceptable that the responsibility is on tagg to do any of that? We shouldn't even be at this point. His safety was in question. That's not okay.

So when you say that he's not "off the hook" for not reporting them, or muting them, or whatever immediately that doesn't suggest to you that he has done something wrong that he has responsibility for? Because that's what it sounds like to me.

yo and guys even if someone you know is cool with it, even they get sick of it day after day from everyone and other people might not be alright with it at all

The fuck is going on with you people? The guy said "if tagg had told the LAN's security gorillas that people were grabbing him and saying nigger they might have thrown them out" and that's all. What's all this crazy ranting about?

Also how the fuck was his safety in question? Lmao some nerdy kid grabbed his hair at a LAN which, as mentioned, has security. I don't understand what's even going on in this thread.

sticks and stones may break my bones but words are offensive and therefore must be banned to protect my feelings

tagg never remotely even suggested that anyone should ban any words, he used his own words to combat them, but the irony is lost on you because you're trying like a motherfucker to rationalize your own use of racist language

And u are making fallacious assumptions about his language because you don't agree with his argument.