get rid of the rescue ranger please...

Curious to see what comes out from and what comes in to the white list.

please rethink the following weapons

loch n load
cow mangler
rescue ranger
jarate

can i just ask why anyone thought putting a minigun with slowdown in 6's was a good idea

I'm not a huge fan of the 'if it doesnt break the game, let it in' philosophy either.

The Tomislav™ - cause 6s wasn't slow enough already

The rescue ranger makes dry pushing last hell, especially when you have a huge player advantage and want to rush right in and cap

there's a reason why it's not runned full time
splash damage is a good thing and the dh doesnt have it

just ban or at least rethink the following
rescue ranger
loch n load
tomislav

Tomislav isn't as big of an issue as you're making it look. It just makes Heavy a bit stronger.

Rescue ranger + vacc heavy on a lot of lasts makes uber adv for last basically not matter on some maps. I would advocate removing rr from the whitelist over vacc just because I think that medigun has some interesting uses outside of last whereas the rr is literally a weapon built and intended to stall games.

isn't a big deal, it's allowed in etf2l since s19 and i've never seen anyone complaining, it's somewhat better then stock but not enough to ban it
loch and rescue ranger need to be rethinked tho

Having an enemy scout/soldier just stand on their spawn's shutter, shooting RR bolts at their sentry and potentially negating an entire uber push into their last without any big risks is pretty upsetting. If it does go down, they just go one step back into their spawn and they're back in the fight just like that. Cow mangler seems fine imo.

Really I'm only on the fence about the rescue ranger and loch n load, since I hate playing against and with it. Until some major change comes about for it, these are the only 2 that should be considered since there's nothing else that's necessarily game breaking. Cow mangler obviously has it's ups and downs but it's not a direct upgrade to the default rocket launcher. Same goes with some other questionable additions, like the jarate and natascha possibly

Jarate is stupid. I may be prejudiced as a demo player, but the idea that we can give sniper a "oh shit im dying let me throw this piss at my enemy so my team can kill the guy who sac'ed on me" does not appeal.
Maybe someone can explain why Jarate is cool to them, cause to me it seems like it fits the mold for what we call OP. There's no reason not to run it competetively, unless we unban the danger shield so sniper has to decide between surviving a weak headshot or having the minicrit madness. It frankly promotes unskillful play in that you dont pull out an smg and at least try to kill your attacker you just throw the jarate and die knowing your team can easily kill him with minicrits. Finally, its just annoying to play against, because you are afraid to jump a sniper if there is anyone remotely near because hes just gonna put minicrit magic on you and watch you die in his deathcam.
I also still dont understand the universal outcry against the LnL when it STILL isn't being used by every demo playing the game like it should be if its so OP. However, I seem to be alone in this stance so I am not gonna try to argue it.

Would the rescue ranger be less frustrating if you couldn't fire it from inside spawn, and you couldn't carry buildings into spawn while it's equipped? I think as is, it's just too frustrating and overpowered (without taking much skill to use) on last holds, and should probably be banned again, after this full season of serious in-match testing has demonstrated its effect on 6s

If you mean firing the bolt from inside spawn, that actually doesn't really matter. On spawns like Sunshine last you're gonna be standing outside the doorway to heal your gun and it makes next to no difference. I think the problem of healing at a distance (and I don't mean just at long ranges, but even close-medium range) is much bigger than actually yanking the gun, because it means that the engineer isn't vulnerable to most of the spam that the gun's taking that he can take when he's trying to wrench it. Like you can't fire your rockets at the side of the gun to pressure an engineer away from healing a lot of the time now, or pipe the gun and damage him.

Most of the times if the gun's yanked it's already taken a decent amount of damage and redeploying it takes too long if the other team's pushing, unless their push is really bad/it's a really slow dry push.

to everyone talking about the weapons that need to be addressed in this thread

let's focus more on making sure the competitive tf2 community as a whole knows about these whitelist changes and has the oppertunity to make their voices heard rather than talking about the specifics

Agreed, after the initial meeting we'll have a drafted whitelist that you guys can pick apart.

Hey Slin do you have an ETA for the event?

I don't actually, haha.

Last time we had maybe 15 people in the room? I want to strike a balance between getting enough high-level minds in the room but not having too many cooks in the kitchen. We need to have representation from every region, and finding a time that works for everyone is hard.

Because you are a meme.

You wanna fucking fight

This community is full of wannabe memestars. You should be honoured. You've made it.

Yeah I actually meant to say Natascha the tomislav isn't game breaking. On another note the cow mangler is super fun and can be countered by mini sentry engi pls don't ban it.

pls don't counter unlocks with other unlocks/classes that's too overwatch-ey for me

also i agree with the others getting jarate'd randomly and then sticky sniped for like 100 ish damage is not fun

Unban base jumper, buffalo steak, solemn vow pls

Weps that could be discussed: quick fix, vita saw, guillotine

I think the vaccinator should be banned. Everyone always says "oh you could do some awesome things with the vacc !" or "the vacc promotes different playstyles !" but all I see is meds taking 13 damage from a headshot, scouts eating two pipes and not dying, and overall stupidity.

please explain to me how you are to push with the vaccinator

im not saying mini sentries aren't dumb but they're currently allowed in the whitelist so you can't exactly complain about the cow mangler without acknowledging the fact that it becomes literally useless if the other team has is running them
that said having unlimited ammo is fucking absurdly good for spamming and the alt fire charge shot is a pretty stupid gimmick
for example if the other team is pushing big door on gullywash into middle you can right click super far back on the high ground and prefire them for free
if you get the timing right you can hit a medic blindly turning the corner with a 130dmg charge shot that will kill him from burn damage if he can't get to the pill bottle in big door quick enough or it's already been taken (this happened to my medic in a pug the other day)

To refer to it as rock-paper-scissors seems extreme to me. Does a team with a player running a Cow Mangler hard counter a team running standard? No. Does a team running an Engineer hard counter a team running a Cow Mangler? No.

It'd be nice if we could keep the "RPS" rhetoric down to things that actually turn -who wins mid- into a game of RPS with loadouts or class composition.

Lets get our bets in

I take the timberlake twin over the 12 year old.