Skimming over this thread it seems like most everyone is just ignoring this post. The only reply I noticed was:

Which is just...a mindbogglingly bad argument. Yeah, all the law is saying you can't discriminate trans people (non-binary included) and that fucking legal documents should properly represent various gender identities. I bet this is probably as simple as having an "other" option on paperwork and yet u guys are all getting angry about it lmao.

Here's what I think is actually going on: a large percentage of people don't like trans people so they hide behind things like "free speech" to argue against anything that extends discrimination laws to protect trans people as well. And that's fine, but actually come out and say that. Don't give me these bullshit "free speech" arguments when all ur really saying is "I don't like trans people and they shouldn't have equal protection against discrimination that other minorities have".

I thought the only thing you weren't legally allowed to say is I'm going to assassinate the President of the United States

or like screaming fire in a crowded theater or something

You would think that people wouldn't have skimmed over this but I guess it's more fun to believe that "le SJWs are taking my free speech!!!"

i identify as abraham lincoln

@Whymeo

I gotta ask this because I legit have no idea, but because I am the only one you pointed out in your post are you saying that I dislike trans or any other people and think that they should have no protection or something? I just want to know so I can keep track of who is calling me a transphobe or bigot at any one time...

Anyways I think you missed the point of my post, Things like race are very easy to see and separate for people there are prominent features on people so you can tell them apart, you can tell that someones from the US is different from someone that comes from India, this is easy to do for the most part. My point was that something that is subjective like gender or whatever cannot be seen or defined easily. This is a issue, because if you start mandating that people refer to X, Y or Z as possibly X, Y or Z but they also might be FA, AH or AFGD it really fucks with stuff because you have no idea. Laws need firm guidelines that everyone can follow, that's what a law is. Furthermore the fact that if you don't call a X who actually wants to be a AH, AH, its not something like "Ohh can you change it for me" as it can literally become "I am going sue you for $1,000,000 because you disrespected me. How the fuck does that make ANY logical sense at all? Like I literally don't get it.

Also as I have stated multiple times the bill that is currently being passed is fine, there are no issues with it and it is something that is already enacted in almost all of the provinces in Canada. The issue with the bill is what comes after it, the bills that are currently only provincial bills in places like Ontario are VERY VERY vague, the have no solid definition as to what the actual fuck they are or what they mean. This is the issue, its not about a single bill its about the president that is being set.

free speech and hate speech are the same things :)

this is the same shit as left wing people repeatedly do you accuse people of hating trans people without evidence because they believe something
this is why trump won if you want people to come over to your side on issues stop accusing them of being racist or bigots etc it just makes them mad and blot you out

No, I was talking about people who use "free speech" arguments in general to make sure trans people don't get discrimination laws protecting them. Thank you for explaining your position however, I have no knowledge about local bills and if they are potentially too vague or not. I'm glad to hear you're fine with the currently passed bill, but I disagree that any bad precedent is being set.

What if your preferred pronoun triggers someone else?

What's to stop me from demanding that people call me "hitlerdidnothingwrongiloverape" as my preferred pronoun? Yeah, it's a ridiculous pronoun, but the law makes no distinction between any preferred pronouns. If my boss refuses to use that pronoun, are they creating a hostile work environment?

This professor has an issue with demanding that someone use a made-up pronoun to address them. He has no issue with referring to an MtF transgender person as "she" and "her" (and vice versa).

you say you have no knowledge of the local bill so how do you know a precedent isnt being set

Unless I misread his comment I believe he meant the precedent was being set by the already passed bill.

I don't know why I'm even going to bother with this one, but there's a big difference between identifying as a gender and identifying as a person you are not, an inanimate object, or whatever. It's a relatively simple concept, all it means is that someone's brain just doesn't match their physical self. And there is evidence to show that people's biological sex and gender can be different. For example:

"Male and female brains are, on average, slightly different in structure, although there is tremendous individual variability. Several studies have looked for signs that transgender people have brains more similar to their experienced gender. Spanish investigators—led by psychobiologist Antonio Guillamon of the National Distance Education University in Madrid and neuropsychologist Carme Junqué Plaja of the University of Barcelona—used MRI to examine the brains of 24 female-to-males and 18 male-to-females—both before and after treatment with cross-sex hormones. Their results, published in 2013, showed that even before treatment the brain structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced gender than those of their natal gender. For example, the female-to-male subjects had relatively thin subcortical areas (these areas tend to be thinner in men than in women). Male-to-female subjects tended to have thinner cortical regions in the right hemisphere, which is characteristic of a female brain. (Such differences became more pronounced after treatment.)"

Taken from: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

I don't think anyone is arguing that transgender people don't exist. There's a difference between being a man in a woman's body (or vice versa) and insisting that there's uncountable possible gender identities and there must be specific pronouns (and people must use these pronouns) for each one

It's a meme...

There is also some scientific evidence to show that transgender people who do not identify as either male or female (but instead anywhere in between) are also valid:

"The main problem with a strong dichotomy is that there are intermediate cases that push the limits and ask us to figure out exactly where the dividing line is between males and females,” biology sex expert Arthur Arnold at the University of California, Los Angeles, told Nature. “And that's often a very difficult problem, because sex can be defined a number of ways.”

The scientists discovered the XX and XY cells that differentiate between genders can actually behave in different ways. When scientists took a closer look, they found not all people have cells that contain the same set of genes. Instead, it’s more like a mosaic of different unevenly divided sex cells, which biologists have taken to calling “mosaicism.” Although it’s a rare condition that only affects about 1 in 15,000 people, it still leaves an unidentified population of society outside of the familiar dichotomy."

Taken from: http://www.medicaldaily.com/challenging-gender-identity-biologists-say-gender-expands-across-spectrum-rather-323956

A meme that's meant to make fun of transgender people and suggest that identifying as anything but what you're born as is ridiculous. I see no problem making a reply to it.

>A meme that's meant to make fun of transgender people and suggest that identifying as anything but what you're born as is ridiculous. I see no problem making a reply to it.

so because 1 in 15,000 people could be be somewhere between male and female everyone should be able to self identify as whatever gender they make up for themselves. its ridiculous to ask for places to make an option for other when only 1 in 15000 people would be that other

because identifying as anything other than what you're born as IS ridiculous. it's almost as if it's not really up to you to decide what you are

Can you not? Literally proving all points that are being made in favor of this... What people identify as should not be your business or your problem. So if you are not going to actually try to explain anything in a useful way just stop saying anything. This is a useless comment that undermines almost everything I am trying to get across.

Can we just like not argue about this? The transgender argument is a losing argument for both sides; let's just leave it alone and pass no legislature about it and everyone will be fine. Don't force anyone to acknowledge transgender people or the idea of more than 2 genders, don't force transgender people to conform to 2 genders and let them do their thing, real simple!

Ugh this argument is retarded for both sides and there shouldn't even be an argument.

While in spoken Finnish everyone refers to a 3rd person as "it" lol

Yeah...people who say stuff like what send did are generally very transphobic. So thanks for proving my point send. Anyway, if you want to reply to the article I linked that talks about multiple scientific studies that give evidence for the existence of trans people by all means go ahead, otherwise you're just spewing bullshit.

i'm not transphobic because transsexuality isn't possible. you can't change your chromosomes, which determines your gender. if you disagree you are simply a moron

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Sex = XX and XY chromosomes (and other exceptions)
Gender = Social constructs based on characteristics we deem to either be masculine or feminine

Here's a little food for thought.
The man who coined the terms "gender identity" and "gender role" was a literal mad scientist who caused two people to kill themselves after being involved in an experiment of his related to the idea that gender identity is aquired through experiences.

The crazy dude
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
http://www.goodtherapy.org/famous-psychologists/john-money.html
One of the subjects in his experiments.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

Im not taking sides, but remember this when you use these terms.

That may be interesting but honestly, why? Why should we think of those people when we discuss this? I don't think of the creators of the internet or the personal computer when I use or talk about computers, etc.

The other point being that what you posted has very little to do with the legislation or this discussion. I'm not being rude or antagonistic, I'm just saying it may be interesting but has no bearing on the conversation at hand. Related but not relevant.

Shoutout to Elliot for starting another fire yet again

how about the 1 in 8 people who are black, should there be no possible option for them? how about the 1 in 50 people who are jewish, should there be no possible option for them? if 1 in 100 people identified outside of their own gender do you think it would be acceptable? how about 1 in 1000? like at what arbitrary point in your brain is it acceptable to start ignoring a minority group of people based on their portion of the population?

asking the majority of people to completely altar the way they interact with each other for 0.006 percent of the population is ludicrous
by what arbitrary point in your brain is it okay to ignore a group of people based on their portion of the population? basically when they become statistically irrelevant it becomes a waste of time and resources

just curious as to how you think this will "completely alter" the way you interact with other people
you can't say that the pronoun thing is not a big deal and also say that this affects straight people a ton

if you call someone who identifies as a female sir because your trying to be polite and you have to go to court for a hate crime because you misgendered someone it is completely altering your life