banned : flying guilotine
allowed : quick fix

???

Can we have this whitelist: http://whitelist.tf/6802
My favorite class is kind of under-powered so this will fix it :)

http://whitelist.tf/6803

All in favor?

Unban all of the taunts that are like the conga, I need something to do when I'm capping points and when it's the gullywash mid stalemate fun time

Guillotine is really good. Ignoring the fact that it random crits on long throws for no fucking reason, it gives Scouts powerful, free spam. getting hit with it means you can't win a flank fight. That amount of no falloff spam is a huge, huge scout buff.

Also what is it with all these people calling for gbs+medlocks, the S23 whitelist would be fine after dropping Jarate RR and Backup

#BringBackCinnamon

https://clips.twitch.tv/b4nny/CarefulLobsterPRChase

smh

why doesnt esea just ban banny and use a non retarded whitelist? I think that pretty much solves everyone's problems.

Hell they could just ignore him and listen to the vast majority of people playing ESEA.

Scrimmed with quickfix on sunday and it completely carried us in a game we should've gotten rolled in twice as fast, the weapon is complete bullshit.

yes, for the love of god can we just fucking go back please

btw if the supposed invite captains wanted this shit then they better fucking scrim with it, i dont care if a goddamn lan is coming up, i dont fucking care if jesus himself is hosting a no quickfix major with a lifetime supply of money, if you want shit weapons unbanned for "testing purposes" then you fucking play with them

B4nny can just fuck off and play something else. Why does this self entitled prick think he can dictate to the majority of comp TF2 players? Does he think big daddy Gaben will give him the cummies he seems to be so desperately craving if we allow all the shitty unlocks?

Just give up already.
TF2 is not a big eSport.
TF2 will NEVER be a big eSport.
Valve are either incompetent or malicious and no amount of pandering to them is going to fix that.
The best thing we can do at this point is maintain our community and continue playing the game we want to play instead of the game Valve wants us to play. At least then the game can die with what dignity is has left.

If someone with relations and influence were to create a new league using a vanilla + few unlocks whitelist I and probably many others would be willing to support it...

Allow Iron Bomber and Pain Train.

atleast give it a try before banning it, maybe it isn't very useful ingame

esea season 14

I've wanted to roam for 3 seasons, but now that we have quick-fix, what's the point if I bomb the med and his pocket just gives him a get out of jail free card?

All roamers must hereon run direct hit in order to shoot flying medics out of the sky.

#B4nB4nny

Please stop saying "season 14" when arguing against the quick fix, it's not a strong argument because the weapon has been significantly nerfed.

We've scrimmed with it. In its current state. It's awful to play with and against NOW. Please say that instead, because I'm sure you're experiencing the same thing.

Why are 2 people controlling how the whitelist and the game is played, if they refuse to fix the whitelist then find a league who won't use the current whitelist (tri please)

people don't like this argument idk why cause its true

you should try:

since Season 14 the Quick Fix has been nerfed quite a bit
however the only things that have been nerfed are things that reward offensive and aggressive play
the QF encourages playing like a BITCH even more than it did 4 years ago QED

How many of you have actually scrimmed seriously with it yet

http://i.imgur.com/lSFrvtV.png

my team has, along with soda popper scouts. it was terrible.

The thing that boggles my mind with this whole thing - and with previous weapons debates - is that if the game isn't broken, don't try to fix it. You have no idea the number of times I was told I was "trying to stop the game from evolving" when I brought the ESEA whitelist to UGC - but the growth of that league that occurred while I was the admin there, and has continued since, seems to absolve me.

It's just like the debate with replay in baseball. Just because the thing is available doesn't necessarily mean it should be used unless it will demonstrably improve the playing/viewing experience as a whole. That's the line we, as a community, really ought to take with most of our rules and unlocks. Just because the quick-fix is available and even if it is nerfed, it doesn't add anything of value to our game, in fact, even if it were some non-reality where the quick-fix wasn't a big deal, I would still argue against its inclusion because our game fundamentally revolves around uber and kritz (with kritz being decidedly less useful than it was due to arrow building already and the demo nerf).

I would encourage you *not* to back out of the league if you've already signed up - you're surely not the only ones who feel upset. Talk to the other team leaders, just like I did in s14, and explain to them you have no interest in running xyz weapons, and that you won't run them unless they do. If you find a team that refuses to abide by that agreement, refuse to scrim them, ever. It works very well, particularly in IM and the upper reaches of open, or invite. Since those teams often have to be pretty picky about who they scrim, and if all of your ideal scrim partners wont play you, you wont be playing a lot of useful tf2 lol.

While we're at it, I'll air another grievance of mine. Pre-arranged scrims outside of invite are hurting the community. Stop, please. Use discord or IRC or anything. Imagine how many teams don't form because mixes don't happen as often anymore, or teams that simply can't find scrims and become discouraged and quit. It's demonstrably bad. I understand if you're an invite team or the tippy-top of IM not scrimming any random team, but everybody else should take anybody who wants to throw down. Not to mention if you're really grinding out scrims it will be easier to scrim longer if you can do it as we did in ye olden days lol. It also makes leading a team considerably easier because you don't have to arrange everything in advance, and you don't have to worry about finding ringers in a rush. Plus, you wont spending 20 minutes+ of your scrim time waiting on the other team to show up to a pre-arranged scrim because their scout is out with pneumonia unexpectedly. It's all positives. Hell, back in the day there used to exist these things called "scrim teams" who were just collections of older players who just showed up in IRC a few days a week and gave *really* good games fairly regularly - but that's gone completely now as well. I even personally tried to resurrect Dheroes but we gave up in part because we couldn't find anybody to scrim lol.

The arguments I've heard for unbanning unlocks are

1. Valve will use the data to balance weapons
   
2. It opens up new ways to play the game
   
3. It makes the transition between Matchmaking and comp 6s less jarring

I think all of those arguments are fundamentally flawed. For one, the last rebalancing happened in the Meet your Match update. There is no proof valve used any data from comp to make these changes. Additionally, we just played a whole season with dumb unlocks, and in the month and a half long offseason not a single weapon was changed. All the data was have points to Valve not caring what we do so catering to them and making the game worse (read: less enjoyable, this is a provable fact) is just naively optimistic.

Two, it doesn't really open up new ways to play the game, it just makes existing ways more powerful. Being able to shoot thru people and bodyshot for more damage doesn't make you play sniper in a new way, you still scope in and shoot. Having a minigun with more range or a slow effect doesn't change how you play heavy it just makes it better. I for one don't want to play comp TF2 if we're working it towards heavy, engie, and pyro are played more in their current state, they are easier classes and there is no way around that.

Three, no one is playing comp MM anyways, it was a massive failure as well as more proof that valve either has not clue what they are doing or are stubborn to the point of idiocy (or both).

I did bring all of these points up in the meeting but I was mostly brushed off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I didn't attend because I was given the impression that I would probably have been disruptive because I'm pretty unhappy with the state of affairs in general. I am one of the small number of people (as you are too saam :D) who tries to sell this game and how great it is to other people, and generally screwing things up makes that harder to do lol.

http://whitelist.tf/6804 What about this whitelist? I don't know about some weapons like the power jack but if you guys have any suggestions please tell me