fyi: reckoner is getting an rc2 update very soon with its mid being worked on, hopefully will be the best it's been - it's had a bunch of play in EU and got a lot of feedback already so it's gonna be pretty strong, i know it's kinda the runt of the EU litter right now but it's growing a lot

cardinal is ready for anyone to give it feedback/test some more and is wholly ready for a b3 update whenever it needs, although i don't know if it's ready to go in a rotation yet

bagel is awesome + it's not my project but i'd love to see it in a rotation, replacing granary maybe

i'm all up for being contacted in any method to get feedback or whatnot, if i can provide strong enough maps to help the rotation that would be swell.

I'd love to see another koth map/kalinka

-granary
-metalworks
+reckoner
+warmfront

Personally I think reckoner is a really strong map and is really fun to play in pugs and what not so I would definitely not mind reckoner in the NA map pool. It has a lot of EU feedback as Phi said and has more playtests than all of the other new maps. I really like warmfront now especially in the way that Dagger opened it up and I would certainly not mind it in the NA scene as well. Kalinka played well too and I could see some potential to become big. I know the majority of the community seems to like bagel but individualistically in my experiences with it I wasn't a fan.

I think we should ease our way into these newer maps and get more opinions before we jump to any conclusions and look to our two strongest/newer maps and look to replace them with our two current weakest maps.

-granary and -metalworks and i am happy

https://youtu.be/rJqxmVCuayo?t=1m50s

I don't have much of an opinion on this, but I do enjoy playing logjam and there are definitely some current maps that I don't like to play much.

Wait was there an rc2 ?

If I wanted a map gone I'd definitely say get rid of granary and put in either logjam or reckoner. I would love to see some new maps and maybe it will become regular if we support it enough

warmfront has fps issues

I think the idea of adding more maps is a good idea but they need to be added overtime, putting 5 new maps into the rotation next season would be stupid, teams would have to create a new "meta" for how to play the map 5 times over and whilst it sounds good in theory "oh we'll get interesting strats and things people didn't consider" really it'll just be a DM shitfest where people aren't quite sure what to do as we saw in the livestreamed cup

Having 2 new maps might be interesting or adding another koth map other than viaduct I like though so that there is more incentive to practice koth maps in the offseason etc

personally i think this is a lame cop out.

The teams that wont care to go over the maps or try to make strats for it are the ones that will try to turn it into a dm shitfest and will be the ones that eventually lose to another team who took the time to figure the map out and learn the holds, best mids, etc. Also literally nothing what you said changes the "meta" of the game, that's done within the balancing of the classes, weapon bans and what people find strong etc. The maps don't change the meta. there are meta's within certain maps but those are entirely different and don't reflect the overall metagame

I used the word meta because I couldn't think of a better word for it, I mean like how people play on the map, positions, strats etc (basically what you mentioned) but if you put 5 new maps in on the same season it would be a shitfest for a while until people really figured out things that work

look at like gullywash when that was added and the strat used to be bomb your entire team onto them at big door and everyone pushes under and people would run heavy and sniper to mid, then think that's what each map is gonna be like bar a couple of teams who try really hard, these things take time (even take a look at like reckoner in EU map pool the map is constantly being edited and changed because people don't like aspects of the map and people are still unsure how to play the map to its full potential)

adding new maps is a good idea and there is a clear desire from players for new maps (look at the thread about rating the current map pools, there is a reason there is differences in the ratings and that's differences in opinion about each map) but to cut out so many classic maps in a single season i'd imagine wouldn't be recieved very well by the community.

BUT

That doesn't mean no new maps should be added, maybe like an actual voting system at the end of seasons to judge how they liked the map pool or something or a few different ways to trial different maps idk, just some ideas. Some of the maps in the mapcups did look like they had potential to be solid maps in the rotation.

-gran -metalworks +logjam +bagel

no gran ✓

cant have tf2 without badlands tho

also id bet metalworks is better than all of those new maps

Hey can somebody make metalworks not at night time, i always feel depressed after playing it, I don't think there are any other comp maps that are so dark

I like the night theme though. I also prefer metalworking over badlands. This being said if we were to sub out maps I think granary is the first one out followed by metal/blands. Why not remove all 3? Put in bagel, logjam, cardinal maybe. IDK.

Process and snakewater looked nearly finished before they were introduced to the map pool. I think the appearance of the maps helps make everything look more professional from a viewer's standpoint.

+your own map smh

why not increase the size of the map pool? is it really that bad if some maps only get played once a season while others get played twice?

process, via, snake, gully, reckoner, sunshine, badlands, bagel, logjam are all competitively viable maps, there might be a couple more as well. would it be such a bad thing to have a map pool of 9 or even 11 maps? It would be good to get it consistent across regions as well, so we don't have issues like teams having to play reckoner/metalworks etc at big lans without having ever played them

koth_warmfront is dogshit.
Anny map pool that does not include badlands (the de_dust of TF2) is bad.
Metalworks shouldn't even be considered for another season.
Sunshine i would also like gone (terrible FPS drops on that map)
Granary is fine. Scout mains are just crybabies on anny map that they can't easily go 40/15 on.
Also i agree with increasing the map pool instead of just replacing maps.
TLDR

-Metalworks
-Sunshine
+Bagel
+Kalinka

MOAR MAPS

Agreed

Badlands, metalworks and sunshine are leagues better than any map that has ever been proposed as a replacement

wah wah nobody wants to play my shitty unfun map

if we're talking map variety here we should definitely keep granary as it is the only 7CP map in the game right now

Definetly agree with this. Why not have two tiers in the map pool - some maps are accepted and get played twice a season, while others are a bit more experimental and get played once a season.

Ironically de_dust is currently rotated out in cs:go

It's a sign

I ain't hiding my own bias. :P

This would probably lead to teams not scrimming/prepping for the map that's only played once if it was a new map, I would imagine. I don't know if there's a better solution though, that's just the main counterpoint.

Wasn't Valve revamping dust though? This happened with train, inferno, and nuke where they were pulled out of the rotation in matchmaking at least (not sure about esea) because they were being changed

why do so many people want badlands out of the rotation? I'm curious, is it an issue of people being bored of it or do people actually think its a bad map? It's not really the best map for pugs but in my opinion its a way better map than pretty much all the maps that people want to replace it with (at least in their current states)

replace metalworks with literally anything other than metalworks