Replace metalworks with bagel

since there is multiple seasons per year both in esea and etf2l it would be cool to have 'themed' map pools, like 1 season with regular maps, one season with 2 koth maps and one season with something else (1 A/D map and one upcoming map for example).

If $$$ or cups.jpg become an issue playoffs/lans can still be played with the consensual map pool.

I don't think warmfront does very well as a koth map, the capture point is very convoluted and has way too much geometry for a koth map

Highlander has this obsession with changing maps every season and it's super dumb. It also means almost every season has a map so bad people won't even try on it.

Map list should be the 8 best maps available and it shouldn't be changed until a better one comes along.

Badlands, Process, Gully, Product, Granary, Sunshine, Snakewater, Metalworks/Logjam

I like this map pool
The map pool needs to be remade again especially another koth map

I agree that maps shouldn't be inserted into the rotation that aren't objectively "good" maps, like what was happening before when horrible maps were getting voted into the rotation. That being said, I think these 4 maps barring some slight tweaking (maybe warmfront a little more) are more than playable in the rotation. what makes these maps "good" for the most part i think comes down to preference, I know tons of people who love badlands and just as many that absolutely loathe it and its been in rotation since day 1. Sometimes I think it should be considered that adding in new things that teams need to adapt to and learn is a good asset to creating good competition, not just keeping what is objectively "the best" and what every team is comfortable with playing. by forcing teams to become masters at something new, or giving other teams who maybe aren't great with the current rotation a chance to also become good on a map that another team hasn't, I think you're adding a really healthy and solid situation to competitive play in general.

plus it would just be fucking fun to play some new maps :)

agree

I don't understand why granary is still in the maplist when most of the players I know absolutely hate it

I would personally like to see:
-badlands
-granary
+coalplant (I realize it's not one of the "new fad" maps, but I remember enjoying it more than viaduct years ago in ugc)
+logjam
but I also trust tri's taste enough to make the decisions for me and ESEA.

keep badlands in the rotation
playtest the new maps more, maybe have another cup, and do a poll or a vote

Im not really sure I trust the voting system considering the last 15 seasons.

why dont we do something with the statistics from the map rotation ranking that spacecadet is making and have a discussion about taking out the bottom two maps and running another map cup (or 2) and taking the top 2 maps from them (i know the numbers are skewed because not everyone will play every map) and doing something like that.

and maybe to fix the issue with not everyone getting to play every map in the map cup we could make it a round robin again but this time each round has a specified map and make sure there are enough teams in each group to play every map?

i wouldnt mind seeing some fresh new maps, or not playing granary for a season or 2

more koth maps would be dope

in theory this sounds nice, but in reality most of the maps available (that have been listed) are not ready for league play / have already been tried and disliked

more koth maps would be pretty nice; there are too many 5cp
i would like to have badlands, but the last isn't too good (no map is perfect though)
i would love to see the map pool changed up, even if just for a season

the new maps would obviously need to be tested more, but the current maps have faced changes over time as well.

snakewater and process when they were both inserted into the rotation had the exact same thing said about them and they were in early states as well. they were developed over time and are way different from the originals and people ended up liking them just fine, enough to be a stable in the rotation for over 15 seasons. whats to say these maps do not have the potential to do the same?

I would take anything to replace metalworks.

for most of these maps i'd agree with you, but i think bagel has been pretty much universally liked by those that have spent time learning how to play the map, and yrr has shown herself capable of responding well to feedback and making smart balance changes. i think most of the community would agree that we ought to at least have a second koth map in the rotation, and i also think most of the community would agree that granary is a miserable map or that, at the very least, it isnt to the standard of the other 5cp maps that we play. we have a huge opportunity here to seriously improve our map pool and simultaneously take steps towards aligning ever so slightly with valves visions of the game, i.e. a game in which 5cp is not the only mode played and other gamemodes have the chance to be seen as competitive.

also for the record i would also be in favor of putting less proven maps into the rotation to be developed over time, but i recognize that most of the community would be against that. however with bagel, i just dont think thats the case. i think bagel is a competitively ready map, period.

-cp_granary +cp/koth_anything

replace granary with coalplant
replace metal with logjam
replace de_inferno (sunshine??) with koth_bagel/warmfront

I'm not in favor of changing map for the sake of it. But right now it feels that more than 8 maps are worth being in the map pool that's all

keep badlands
fuck granary

i think kalinka is definitely playable right now. i'd have to go through/play bagel again to get a final idea on what needs to be changed, but i believe bagel is on its way there too. i like the idea of including more koth into the rotation, as lucrative said having just one map of its kind is kind of odd. would definitely like to see the replacement of granary/badlands/maybe metal for either/both of these maps

I would love to see a few maps replaced with koth
-metalworks
-granary
+bagel
+coalplant

and maybe replace sunshine or badlands for warmfront if they are able to fix some of the problems it has

my favorite map is the one with the beer bottles and the aliens

personally i would love to see us free of granary and metalworks for some strong alternatives.
if this puts us closer to removing granary from the rotation, i support this cause 100%

I'm definitely in agreement that the current map rotation has gotten a bit stale.

Granary is an awful map to scrim/match on tbh.

I don't really know what maps I'd want to replace it though. Warmfront and Coalplant seem interesting. I've never gotten to play either of those.