hes an engineer main case closed
real talk tho mini sentry engi is kinda annoying to play against but not that bad tbh

minis are really easy to focus and engineers move too slow to justify seriously running it. only time minis are good are passive on the flank. also you wouldnt want to give up a scout to run an engie and switching your roamer to engie means you are down a decent amount of spam and force opportunities. imho jag level ones and then eventually upgrading them are better than minis.

also they got the taking damage while building nerf which makes them really easy to destroy.

he's talking about pub play in which it is pretty oppressive to like half the classes

never listen to anything uncle dane says

On a personal note, I don't think that everyone hate minis because of "STAR_", everyone hates them because they are a really small. quick, and accessible form of aimbot that engineers can lay down a lot. They are the most annoying things in game but not OP.

Also I HATE when pubbers say scouts are just the most OP class in game, they are the most powerful arguably in 1v1s maybe but they lack special abilities that the other classes have by far, and getting good at scout isn't the easiest thing either, it takes a lot of skill to get good at him

if that is the case then why would he defend the mini sentry? lol

U wut m8?

You realize where you are posting this right?

I just hate that people say the gunslinger is fine because it counters the most "op" class in game, when there are clearly other ways to kill scouts and not hard to do as well.

Basically I'm saying that uncle dane is wrong to think that the gunslinger is the only effective way to deal with scouts

Gunslinger in organized play isn't all that bad, but in pubs it's aids

Putting a mini-sentry down in a random corner on last is actually pretty decent in my experience. Often will get off a bit of damage and distract the enemy team as they uber in. Far from being overpowered or anything though.

Idk how it is outside of last because my team refuses to let me run engineer to mids. ;-;

I get what you're saying, but many people (perhaps just old timers) will remember and appreciate that in this discussion about why people like/dislike the mini-sentry, it IS important to mention Star. The same way that YouTuber influence has a lot to do with why people like/dislike the market gardener, or the demoknight, etc. We're talking about videos with over a million views.

if you're talking about your patented "hide a mini sentry in the boiler corner in far lobby on process" strat, people call it almost immediately, it just doesn't warrant attention enough to give it high priority

minis in general don't really warrant high priority in 6v6, the only way i see one being a hindrance is if it's up against a cow mangler soldier but even then, that soldier can just ask someone to shoot the mini

yea i guess you're right, i just forget that sometimes certain people can have an influence on something even if it is unintended

Ive experimented in lobbies/pugs a tad. You can put down 2 mini sentries before having no ammo. that means at least 2 wasted ammo from a soldier/demo. on top of that because of the extra health from the gunslinger you can be buffed to 225. this means a minimum of 350 health that they have to shoot at to a max of 425. Not to mention if they get an ammo pack. For each one they get the enemy has to waste another rocket. On last if someone puts their mini down and then refills the ammo its a potential of over 500 health. which beats a heavy. With rescue ranger in the past this was even more because of the buff allowing you to rescue range minis. You might argue that a lvl 3 could do this plus more damage however this mini strategy is almost the same with far less time needed and the different minis can be put in different places. Engi isnt really that mobile so i dont really see it being used out of last, but because teleporters got buffed to only costing 50 metal each, you could put down both teleporters on rollout and still have a mini for mid. Take all this with a grain of salt cuz its just pugs, but once I saved a last defence because i was the last one up as medic so I switched to mini sentry engi they killed me and the mini finished them.

tldr: mini sentry engi can waste allot more ammo and draw more attention then people might think.

mini sentry used to be way worse
its still pretty annoying

we all know why we don't run these in 6s so there isn't any reason to talk about that, but i feel like the way its used in pubs is also important for discussion because it demonstrates to us what kind of shit valve is fine with happening in the game.

these mini sentries divert the attention of the entire other team, especially on the koth maps, regardless of what class you're playing, even if it deals with the sentries decently. if a soldier is shooting this thing even from range, which the soldier has no choice not to do because it's impossible to miss, that makes that soldier vulnerable to the real human beings that are playing the game. it prevents you from doing shit, particularly things that take some degree of skill such as rocket/sticky jumping, just because 1 guy is running this and it never leaves. it really makes no sense how valve could allow something so easily played to have such a monumental effect on the things that are more difficult to do in tf2.

uncle dane would probably think as a pub engineer main, amongst people who play medic and heavy in pubs, that if someone is playing a class that counters yours, that you need to switch to a class to deal with it. now that sounds like some overwatch shit and goes against why tf2 outshines overwatch, which is that you can if you're skilled enough deal with anything in the game as your class so long as you have a better skill set than the guy shooting at you. for instance if you're playing spy, you can amby headshot the pyro, if you're sniper and someone's in close range it's still possible to headshot or if you're playing soldier and you jump an awful scout, you can still kill them.

when it comes up to engineer though, against scout for instance, this doesn't exist because it'll always win 100% of the time. the engineer's skill level doesn't even come into play because the engineer isn't even the one playing the game. it's the game playing the game.

i think they should nerf the gun severely in terms of either firing speed or damage and then buff how much health the engi has (175 should be fine, but maybe 200 even would be good) and also the speed so it's comparable to the medic. i think this retains valve's vision to make the engineer more mobile and increases how enjoyable playing engi would be, considering this encourages you to actually play the game to be effective.

mini sentries are shit since nerf and dont even cause annoyance in pubs imo

uncle dane actually has pretty good understanding and interest in competitive, dont freak out just cos he makes pub vids

just give engi a jet-pack

the gunslinger used to be totally obnoxious and gay because of the tiny hitbox and weird health regen while building

now that it doesnt have either it doesn't have any real effect if you use it mid fight so it's not nearly as frustrating or good

make them have 90hp so i dont have to waste half my ammo on one

ive always said minis would be totally fine if they had almost zero knockback

they shouldnt have enough push force to deny a jump but they do

it would be hard to do, because that would mean they would have to code sentry damage to do no knockback, and i don't think there is a single weapon in the game that doesn't have any form of knockback at all

mini sentry isnt op lol just go direct hit soldier. i will admit they are annoying on maps like hightower tho

Scouts are undoubtably the most powerful class in the game. None of your other points suggest otherwise.

There's a reason the no sentries koth_harvest server is the best one when people are actually playing on it

Maybe i'm ignorant, but i feel scout isn't too OP as he seems to be.

he lacks the crowd control/dpm that the other classes can provide, also scout can be hard countered by other offclasses.

maybe his up ability in other things make him OP but I haven't seen it in both comp and in pubs.

Then again i haven't played comp on a high level so I can be wrong, again i'm just upset that people believe that engineer should be a full time class because he is the only reliable class that shuts down scouts when other classes can contest with scout easily, also i mainly hear lower level/ pub player say this not comp/high level comp players say this. but a lot of the community does not play comp and I don't want them to think in such a way

No I do it on every map, I was just trying that spot in one scrim.

just get that shit out of my harvest pubs and we cool

tbh I'd much rather play literally any class vs an engie with mini sentries than an engie running level threes, I'm also the biggest publord in the world besides perhaps yahoo and m0rg.

hello sir have you heard of these magical things called "counters"