The xbow does 37 damage at point blank and scales linearly with distance to 75 damage at far range.

Please get your facts right first.

Nice edit btw

how many times has someone posted this now

Lemme just jump on...
http://imgur.com/a/vEjiw

xbow is stupid but we don't need a 7th thread on it

buff sticks

buff gunboats

I don't think any nerf would make syringe guns a real alternative without changing the whole concept of the crossbow (like completely removing the ability to heal).

tbf if xbow gets banned people will stop slagging me off for being shite with it lmfao x

revert the demo nerf

They could do a passive downside like the blutsauger has. It was also really unpopular before it had passive reload but that shit was miserable.

the crossbow is one of valves best additions to this game imo. gives medic a higher skill ceiling and allows for medics to play a more dynamic style. dont ban it.

the crossbow makes the game worse and i think the game would be better and more fast paced without it, but it's been unbanned for so many seasons now that people are used to it, and don't want to make the jump after it is banned. so it will probably stay unbanned.

I think my opinion on the crossbow is slightly biased because I main roamer and I like the idea of pushing off of damage and I don't like compensation for mistakes
If the TF Team would be bothered to read these threads I think a slight nerf in the healing and complete removal of uber building (how the fuck do you track) would make the crossbow perfect

I disagree with banning it though, crossbow is one of the only fun things about medic and people are just gonna play it less if the only interesting mechanic/weapon is removed from competitive play

Idk about that but i had to play a pug without the crossbow cause the item servers were down and it was so aids since most of the time you would just be waiting to get healed and it just felt like it slowed the game.

but if you ban the crossbow woudnt it just make roamer less viable since he wouldn't be getting as much heals so it would be a buff to go engie/spy/sniper cause then he wouldn't take any heals which his team could use.

It was still good without passive reload.

crossbow a day keeps the scout meta away

i think all these people posting about the crossbow, are all smesi alts

Stop taking 1v1s as roamer. It was a losing strategy with or without the crossbow. If you commit with your team, your damage will matter. Roamer benefits most from the Crossbow because you don't have to scrounge for health kits.

what? heavy, engineer, sniper, and spy are far worse against soldier than another soldier, and pyro is countered by scouts and by the soldier shooting somewhere the pyro isn't. lowpander strategy, as far as i can tell, relies on hitting dumb sniper shots (which jukebox and tek did before crossbow buff) and the other team not adapting to the inherent shittiness of offclasses. arguing that the crossbow makes any of the offclasses too strong doesn't make sense.

Also, 0% heal door bitch roamer was at least as common, and probably more common, before the crossbow had passive reload (look at tagg and aporia's heals per minute, http://www.vanillatf2.org/2013/08/i49-by-the-numbers/). The crossbow allows the roamer to posture more aggressively, but if the crossbow didn't exist, you would be forced to avoid damage in stalemates so you'd have enough health to push with your team.

First of all, the Direct Hit is garbage specifically because it is too difficult to hit anything with it, so this is a really shit example.

Second of all, the Crossbow does 75 max and the Direct Hit does 140, at their optimal ranges. However, Soldier actually has the ability to control distance between him and his target. Projectiles are also way more reliable up close since they can't reaction dodge.

The Crossbow's weakness has always been that it is absolute ass at fighting people up close compared to needles. Honestly, it'd be a big nerf to Crossbow if there was a plugin that removed Medic speed when healing Scouts, which makes the Overdose speed buff irrelevant and makes it pointless to fight people with Crossbow when you can just run away faster than they can catch up.

You know what would make the game faster? If we played 5 Scout 1 Medic, or better yet, 3v3 Scouts only.

A faster game is not always better or more fun. What you fail to realize is that playing Medic without the Crossbow is the most mind-numbingly, skull-crushingly boring thing you could possibly do in TF2, including HL Heavy, prophunt, endif, and Rancho Relaxo-ing in spawn for hours on end on a 32 man Badwater server. It does not take brainpower to heal Scouts or follow around your pocket and M2 when he tells you to. Backpedaling while spamming needles is similarly braindead, and the times where "+fwd with needles" is optimal is maybe, MAYBE once a game. Hitting crossbows, surfing rockets, and playing on a better team than you deserve from your DM are the three things that are remotely entertaining about Medic. I grant you that it builds too fast with no telegraph, I grant you that it is harder to push off of damage, I grant you that it should be nerfed. I am still firmly of the belief that banning it would be a terrible, terrible mistake. Removing the last vestige of entertainment to be had from playing Medic to make the game marginally faster is not worth it.

http://i.imgur.com/WR1QqKI.png

Who said he was taking 1v1s lol?

This is the reason people say that the crossbow would increase the pace of the game. It's harder to stabilise your team's health after you lose a point, which means teams can use momentum to play more aggresively.

People still used crossbow when the scout speed nerf was not implemented. Do you really think people will use the overdose instead of crossbow lol? It hasn't been used for many years.

Firstly, ridiculous false equivalence. 6v6 as it is now with 1 change in the whitelist is a vastly different change from 5 scouts + 1 med. Secondly, 99% of crossbows are just on players standing still waiting for an arrow after they tanked damage from choke. The number of times a skillful crossbow shot happens in a map is the same as the number of times a skillful play with needles happens. The one time a map that a crossbow shot is actually aimed is nice (for the medic), but it doesn't outweigh the disadvantages of the crossbow (anoying to play against (if someone gets arrowed in a 1v1 or similar situation), slows the game down and makes it hard/impossible to accurately track ubers and push off small advantages).
Ultimately, the crossbow takes more than it gives to the game. Would you make these same arguments if the crossbow wasn't in the game and was just an idea for a weapon? Would you want such a weapon in the game?

At the end of the day, all of this is meaningless if you have not tried out the change in a serious scrim environment. I have, and it enabled us to push off damage and caused the game to be far less stalematey. BAN.

Ban medigun op weapon

Ban Raymon too OP

Ban the crossbow and watch a lot of medic mains disappear.

"All the damage you do is irrelevant as you [ie the roamer] have to actually kill the guy"

I have never argued against this, but it does counter OP's point that roamer is especially fucked over by the Crossbow.

Okay, the Overdose thing is irrelevant.

I am perfectly fine with nobody ever using Syringe Guns because they're boring as hell. They need to have some sort of Uber or healing mechanic or nobody will ever use them over the Crossbow because you're punished every time you take them out.

I guess what I meant was that the weakness of the Crossbow was, in large part, negated by the Scout speed change, and while needles wouldn't become meta, the crossbow would not be as overpowered.

It was never meant to be equivalent. The goal of the example is to show that "making the game fast" isn't the end goal of balance, the goal is creating something entertaining to play, and making the game faster is one metric of fun gameplay. another is skill-indexing. i cannot think of any role in a competitive video game that is so low skill, high reward as medic.

I have no idea where you're getting this 99% metric. Have you never had a Soldier or Demo to half health in a team fight? Do you actually go for 1 difficult shot (defined as arrowing someone who is not walking in a straight line or standing still) out of 100 arrows? Because that's...ridiculously low.

Also, why do you think that only max rampup crossbows are difficult? mid- and close-range arrows take just as much skill.

stickies are annoying when i drop to a trap. scattergun is annoying when i get 2shot by 185 scouts. everything that isn't severely underpowered can be construed as annoying.

bolded statements are redundant.

it is more difficult to track uber when arrows can build, but it is possible. if nothing is happening, their combo isn't peeking a choke while getting tanked, they're probably arrow building. arrow building has a finite maximum rate just like normal building.

i grant you that it is harder to push off of damage advantage. it is, admittedly, a weakness of giving Medic the ability to hit high reward shots that actually take some measure of skill. Unfortunately, I don't gain as much fun pushing off of damage as I want to kill myself at the thought of being forced to play Medic without the Crossbow.

Played it for half a week of scrims when loadouts were broken. Outside of the 15 seconds per scrim I ran at people with needles, it was fucking terrible.

Allow.

Part of the problem with banning the crossbow is that meds will spend 95% of games just healing people with their mediguns, the whole mechanic of better aim=better medic will be completely gone, and, at least for me, any fun in playing med will be gone with it. The whole concept of hitting clutch arrows to save players is one of the coolest parts of the class imo, and not one we should rush to take away, especially as it seems to be non-medics who want it removed.

see if we could test out potential changes with the crossbow these threads wouldn't need to be made but the only time that changes might happen is in the annual (if we're lucky enough for that) weapon "rebalance" update since there are a number of good suggestions that have been put out there for potential changes

did you not read the other thread?

nope lol

This medic player wants it gone, but you know - the only reason I'm posting here is because Breloom did - holy crap a blast from the past lol.