ur points dont coincide with anything..nursey and i are not the same people that think the "battallion's backup is op af"

I don't really have strong opinions about what should or shouldn't be allowed, but the above appears false. Maybe I'm missing something, but the only worthy survey (aka not done on strawpoll) that I saw was this one, and for the most part those results appear to have been ignored. The Vaccinator didn't make it onto any of the "please ban" lists (though it did come close), while other weapons that were universally panned are staying unbanned. Seriously, Natashca, Machina, and the Loch?

Again, I don't really have a horse in this race. As long as completely broken shit is banned I'm happy, and I'll stay happy with every unlock ban until the game itself is on the list. Just don't talk about how important polls and shit are to you if they didn't actually have any influence.

oh yes i do love slowdowns in fps games when can we allow sandman so we can stun as well

Although that poll was probably one of the more popular things within the discussion it is kinda lacking. Main reasoning within the whitelist changes are weapons what were discussed. Active discussions with players, definitely higher level ones, are more appealing because you see the reasoning behind why they want a weapon banned/unbanned.
Personally after asking around 35-40 ETF2L Premiership players the Vaccinator got a 70% in favor of a ban. The poll of GentlemanJon had it around 50-50.

We're still actively reading these comments.

why dont we also blacklist the scattergun and force dx9 to play

i like, thank you

Well at least 2 things got banned i guess...

But still disappointed to see bow and mach legal, you ban piss because "Jarate is uncontested as the best Sniper secondary in the sense that it allows the Sniper to have a greater impact in team fights by granting his team a temporary increase in damage output, at no expense to those using it" but keep the other two legal even though they have the exact same issue, crosbow being even more so. Wish there was some consistency when it came to the bans at least.

I don't understand

there's whole paragraphs that basically just admit the weapons are aids and yet they remained unbanned, why is this

that is impossible because it is opiniated to what adds more depth to a game than the negative attributes

both the jarate and xbow have positive and negative aspects, but it is quite clear, although subjective, why the xbow adds more to the game than the jarate, as the only thing the jarate adds is the interesting combination of jarate + a suicide, which in itself--the only positive attribute--is more of a negative attribute, because of the extremely wide splash of jarate. on the other hand, xbow "allows Medics to become increasingly involved in team engagements and gives the medic huge clutch potential" which in the nature of the reasoning, is positive since it actually rewards skill, despite being relatively easy to hit.

Glad to see the vaccinator banned- it heavily disrupts the flow of the game not only by making it considerably easier to hold last, but also by making it harder to repush. This is because you'd either be stuck with the vaccinator or have to take the time to switch off, losing any advantage you may have had, and also because the best way for the enemy team to play against vacc on last was conservatively which meant they were less likely to lose enough players for the repush to happen anyway.

Something I've always thought about the Solemn Vow is that it would make risky pushes with potential uber advantage so much easier.

1. Push last with potential uber advantage
   
2. Look at enemy medic
   
3. <80%? keep pushing and focus medic
   
4. >80%? abort push and get out

Something you couldn't just do with uber tracking alone, not even the best medic will always be able to factor in arrow building, building etc.

My point was about how subjective the bans are. There is zero constancy when it comes to things being banned and the reasoning behind it. xbow, piss, and mach all are objectively the best choice for that slot without question, all of them increase the power of the class with almost no, or very little drawbacks but yet only one of them is banned. We are not banning things with an objective viewpoint, it is being done subjectively and with, as you have said, personal opinions on the matter.

My point was that the bans should not be a subjective thing. If it is OP or massively broken it should be banned, regardless of what else it add or detracts from the game, because all 3 should be banned if we are following that.

Apart from Medics the Vacc was clearly disliked, it's just outside the bottom 20% of all items. The main other split on the item not illustrated there was NA/EU, with EU clearly holding a more negative opinion of it. Your player consultation confirmed that.

I don't get why solemn vow is useless. If it wasn't banned I'd probably run it. It's not like clutch ubers from sawing people happen often, and seeing people's hp sounds pretty useful

i think all those should be banned execpt crossbow

So do most people

crossbow might be the only thing keeping medics in this game, even though I believe it's too strong of a weapon. However, I don't see why you wouldn't ban the Machina. The damage buff is far from insignificant, whether its in sniper 1v1 or simply agaisnt other classes, and the drawbacks are even less impactful now, since every sniper is probably gonna run SMG.

you did it dude, you finally made a useful post, well done

This is simply wrong. Having an item be the best choice for the slot still does not mean that it should be banned. Otherwise, the ubersaw, gunboats and escape plan would have to go, among others.

It should be a consideration but not a hard and fast rule.

Personally I'd change mains to medic if the crossbow was banned. Needles are one of the most fun weapons in this game.

i agree to some extent, but there definitely still is consistency in the fact that the subjectively most gimmicky and annoying weapons to play against are banned. i do agree, however, that most of these weapons should be banned because they follow suit in the category you are suggesting.

however, while i agree the xbox needs a nerf to its maximum healing rate, banning it would do more harm than good. that is why there can't be these "consistent categories" that automatically warrant a weapon to be banned.

I really can't agree with obsecure weapon opinions because it is imperative to remember that we play tf2 for fun, and having retarded unlocks like jarate and vacc is not fun :)

i think the question we have to ask is ASSUMING valve won't change it, should it be allowed in it's current state?

I don't really see how you can talk about Jarate and the crossbow/machina in the same light.

I support Jarate Ban because it's the only item of the 3 that has an effect on your teammates. You can "buff" your teammates damage with no negative side effects at all. The other weapons only effect the sniper himself.

if people honestly wanna ban crossbow scrim without it
then realize "hey we've been used to this playstyle for a really long time this is a little aids"
or you can do me one better and not blacklist it so the enemy team can run it
nobody will have fun aside from people who thoroughly enjoy playing medic and even still it'll feel like something's missing because a lot of this generation of players hasn't played without it

http://i.imgur.com/sbYb0kA.jpg

Maybe read the paragraphs and you'll find the answer you're looking for?

I, too, love empty arguments

but xbow is so fun to use
we're so used to it being allowed pls
we already ban x item, this one is only slightly worse just keep it in
ALL MED MAIUNS WILL QUIT IF U BAN XBOW SO DONT EVEN DARE T

Sorry I should have been more clear. My point wasn't to say that "the best unlock of the slot should be banned because it is obviously too good." This is clearly false as there will always be a "Best" option to play with. My point was that when concerning the bow, piss and mach, the are not only objectively the best unlock but they also add a massive amount of power to the class with no rhyme or reason. You could argue that the skillstick is a tad OP and requires a ban as well, but the big difference between it, and say the mach is how it effects the game and what it does to the class. Mach makes sniper more powerful at what it does. Not only do you get more single target pick damage and potential, but now you also get the chance to get multiple picks with a single shot. Yet again for literally no good reason it is a direct upgrade to what sniper does and how it is played. Now compare that to the stick. You get to run away faster. That's literally it. Its downside is you take minicrits, but that doesn't matter because you would be dead with or without them on you in 99% of the situations that you pull the stick out in. At the same time you could also be using the paintrain, (for backcaps) or the MG, (for memes) but the fact is that there are at least 2 other viable side grades to the stick, most people do run it 99% of the time, but not because they are forced to, more because the would rather have the extra survive ability chance. The same can be said for the saw and gunboats, yes they are "best" in slot, but there are other viable options and they don't add massive power to the class. With gunboats you trade firepower for more efficient rocket jumps, but you lose out on the shotty or banners. Ubersaw you might be able to get cluch ubers off because of it but if you have to pull it out you are more then likely dead either way, and (not many people use it) but the amputators taunt AOE heal is actually really good for post uber fights on lasts. So yet again, you are not forced to run either the boats or the saw, they are the better option the majority of the time but they are not a must.

I would be fine with the bow if it didn't heal so god damn much, and if it didn't build uber. Put it back to the 2014 bow and its fine. But yes you are right, god knows anyone who plays this game still is only in it for the fun so fuck piss and vaccs, those are the anti-fun incarnate.

Fun =/= good unlock

assuming you are talking about xbow, it's a very good unlock. it's unfortunately just slightly unbalanced, and hopefully with valve's next annual update, it will be nerfed :D

75 - 150 burst healing
4,6 - 9,3% uber
on 1.6s cd

valve will nerf it though right?

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