Also out of curiosity:

What were people hoping to change in MM?

yall complain about no MM changes like you wouldve played it O_O... LOL

tbh if they changed matchmaking, I'm sure most people would give it a shot

if it changed into a better system they would play it

yeah just like how we are gunna play faceit after they update it xD

matchmaking is more of an entry level gamemode for pubs --> comp, not really for players already in league play. that being said, if it was good i would probably play it

666 posts in Pyro update thread? Confirmed devil class.

regardless of how small the dev team is, working every day for a year and a half should yield more results than this. Especially after the promise of 'It contains more than 2-3 major updates'.

Honestly cant understand what people really expected from a game that's now essentially 21 years old, gone through many devs, pushed i don't even want to know how many free updates.
Sure more weapons fixes would of been cool, and so would the MM being fixed. But they just don't have the mann power.

So we got a love and war update in 18 months, for a really really old game that has either a super casual or "I only play comp" user base, and done a pretty decent job of making both sides happy.

What we really need is for Valve to give us keys to the castle, do our own community stuff, but lets be honest no one is going to want to organise and do that.

:'>

They absolutely do have the mann power (I see what you did there) to make a MUCH better update than this I don't get why people are acting like they're a little indie dev studio with starving devs struggling to make ends meet. They work at Valve and they promised things that they apparently could not deliver and they deserve criticism for it.

True Valve isn't a Indie studio, but they may as well be in the way that employees can move and work on any project they want when they want, that and they have 360 members of staff (Since 2016) in the entire company (vs the likes of Blizzard with a 4.6k)
Plus I'm sure a lot of them will be working on Vive stuff and Dota, CSGO and tf2 will get the crumbs, its not the TF2 dev teams fault its Valves and TF2's age. Can you blame them its old most people wouldn't play a game as long as we have never mind work on it, when the community shits on you update after update.

I'd be willing to bet that all 360 employees are pulling 100k+ salaries - there are 30 people sitting on their asses who produced this update after making one hundred and fifty thousand dollars each. CSGO is proof that we deserve more

did some research and the base salary starting at valve is 72-77k for the lowest position

This is what I'm saying. I also recall seeing something that said all Valve employees have to effectively be like jack of all trades so they can do a bunch of different things to an incredible standard (will try to find it) so they should all be pretty competent and if they were both competent and working as they should be this update would 100% have had a lot more.

The most frustrating aspect of this is the garbage state of casual. Seriously I spend about 5 times as much down time. (Searching for a reasonable game). Trying to balance a game like tf2 around pointless ranks ruined casual. There's no close games anymore. As a lvl 150 I'm constantly forced in to awful unbalancd games , games already over, games not populating. Some games the set-up time takes longer than the match.NOT MENTION YOU FUCKING CHARGE PLAYER'S 10$ TO PLAY A MODE THAT DOESN'T EVEN CREATE MATCHES UNLESS YOU WAIT 1 HOUR TO PLAY A HACKER ,VALVE DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME YOUR MATCHMAKING IS BROKEN HIRE MORE FUCKING DEVS, COPY PASTE CS GO AND DOTA CODE. 500 days to just be told TEE HEE silly boys we're not ready oh well.

The pyro improvements look decent though glad they were willing to do what needed to be done
Balance changes are ok but kind of misguided

they promised ELO a while back i think. measures against cheaters would be nice too.
edit: a LONG while back. http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=23496
i dont think they know what ELO is, as they say they already have ELO in comp MM when its just a linear XP bar.

all i wanted was performance, some anti cheat measures and some updated settings/hud stuff ... and got fucking nothing after almost 500 days
next months halloween, christmas stuff, bug fixing, we should see some real developpment to competitive next summer .. what a fucking joke
and people still are being passive and defending this greedy piece of shit company that´s worth several billion dollars, like they have no means or resources
stop shitting on the devs (even though sometimes they might deserve it), start going after VALVE the company
stop being PASSIVE its not working. How much neglect and abuse can people take in this game, wtf
weren´t they supposedly to have been working on this before MYM, and wasnt released because it wasn´t ready yet and after 480 days they say the exact same shit and people still eat it with a spoon !

Alright this is honestly fucking bullshit.

For all the people saying this isn't a big update that shouldn't have taken so long. Consider the following

There's an actual Valve made map, new voice codec, entirely new party system, new particles and likely animation for all the flame throwers, new particles animations and sounds for the Dragons Fury, Gas Passer and Jetpack , completely reworked airblast, fixed several bugs, added a host of new menus with the PDA and new menus for MM, added several new sounds to the game (5 weapons have sounds updated at least 3 of them are new), added 1st person inspection animations for all the remaining weapons, etc.

While alot of these changes don't seem like they're that important they do take A LOT of work and thus time. For the number of devs/artists TF2 has this is huge.

while i do agree that the update is very small content wise, i think that at least what they put out doesnt seem to be broken or the usual "half of this shit is terrible".
lowkey the banana is str8 up better than sandvich for pubbing (heals 200 instead of 300 but regens in 10 secs instead of 30)

I hope in the next update Valve really thinks about adding a competitive case, much like how csgo received esports cases during he early stages of competitive CSGO. As the team is currently releasing community content, just slap the title "Esports Winter Case" on it and say 50% goes to a REWIND prize pool or something like that. That's how you can easily connect the trading and competitive communities while also buffing the prize pool.

that ain't lowkey that banana is gonna be fucking DELICIOUS

haha that's not going to happen that money is going straight in valves pocket.

https://i.gyazo.com/2bca93222177cd30af1cb5ea56226002.png

Pessimistic prediction: jetpack bombs from overhealed pyros who are good at airblasting will be too difficult to defend against, as any airshot attempts will involve a huge risk of the pyro dropping your med with minicrits. Community will suggest "reflects do not minicrit while airborne" stat for all flamethrowers. Despite it being a relatively small change to implement, Valve will not rebalance for several months leading to jetpack being banned in 6v6 and we all end up back to square one.

This is what I've been trying to say, but people think were in 2009 still...

i don't understand the Second banana's stats, it's pretty much straight better than the Sandvich (except Alt-fire which only throw a small health-kit)

who wanna chose a 300HP medkit with 30s recharge over a 200HP with 10s recharge?
150HP - 15s sounds more reasonable

and Dalokohs bar is even more useless now, i prefer the chocolate bar over the Sandvich because of the +50 max health and fast 10s recharge

I feel like the matchmaking changes will come pretty soon, because they only have to work on 1 thing rather than working on 3-4 things. I expect it'll come with smissmas. Jill implied that it was ready, but wasn't worthy enough to be a refresh of the mode. So I expect that there will be some major changes to matchmaking, other than the ELO or placement matches.

better unban the RS now

-Added: Attacks on targets flying via the Thermal Thruster mini-crit

shotgun will rise again

in all seriousness though, its a weapon that has to be switched to, used, and then has a holster time of over a second, so i feel like in practice youd have a pretty good window to take them down most of the time.

I've got to say I'm honestly a little disheartened at the amount of negativity since the day 4 reveal. Sure MM changes are very overdue and even simple class limits and porting over ELO/placement match systems from their other games probably would've made MM playable. Regardless I'm very excited to play this update. The new primary has the ability to one shot light classes and the jetpack sounds sick. It really sounds like pyro is good now and even a little less AIDS after the airblast changes. The danger shield and atomizer can probably be unbanned now, too. The sandman and reserve shooter are still retarded, but their mechanics are fundamentally bad.

this isn't a thing valve can necessarily just do, because the dumb bad nature of their flat management setup ends up making things like hiring someone for one specific thing into a painfully annoying process, and even then, once hired, employees are actively encouraged to switch projects regularly, so you're not even guaranteed that they'll stick around for very long.

this was always a big problem with valve, they talk about how not having managers gives you a great degree of freedom, but managers exist for a reason. to the freedom-having valve employee, making new things is always fun, optimizing those things is always really boring, and if there's no management to force otherwise, nobody can stop you from making something and leaving the pesky work to someone else. when everyone has that exact mindset and nobody bothers fixing anything, the end result is what TF2 is now.

again, that major things got fixed in this absolute mess of a game is a miracle. valve's been dodging having to fix the pyro for a reason, 99% of pyro's problems was solely a netcode issue more than it was balance or anything else, if they work well now then that's a sign of people who are really good at this sort of thing. it's just a shame, because they're probably also the only ones at valve who are willing to do it.