This is definitely nice and I hope to see some CS players playing tf2
That being said this won't pull the troglodytes that still play UGC 6s. What really needs to happen is that UGC should just kill their 6s divisions and make UGC the place you go to play only hl. That would help both ESEA and UGC but I highly doubt it would ever happen.

Ugc should replace 6s with prolander

UGC is legit retarded. I remember offering them dozens of premium codes to bolster their non-existent prize pool back in the day as a way of creating a quasi progression system between the leagues and they refused it. Really thought it woulda helped both leagues.

Anyways, let em burn.

can a ugc admin post here giving us a legitimate reason to keep ugc 6v6 divisions around now?

- they don’t make the league any money
- they don’t draw any new players considering the only people who habitually play ugc 6v6 are hl players and esea players; both of which are doing it for the free medal
- the numbers for ugc 6v6 have dwindled as heavily as esea’s have (ugc used to have iron, steel, silver, gold, and plat 6v6, now it’s just iron, silver and plat afaik)

why not just consolidate 6v6 into one league in north america?

if ugc thinks keeping their 6v6 divisions around will help they’re delusional and are just shooting the whole north american competitive community in the foot

also another side note a lot of the entry level hl players I used to help out wanted to play open but were actually terrified of it and chose instead to just stagnate in ugc 6s. afaik most of them are still there seasons later except for a single team that actually broke into open and only after a ton of encouragement lol

We should all just post the exact same thread in the ugc forums and see what happens.

As long as people still need to pay premium to play in ESEA, there is a role for a totally free league. Whether that be TFCL or UGC or whatever, it doesn't matter, but ESEA cannot be the only option as long as there is still some payment required.

Just when you thought this game didnt have much left in it...

Try #3 http://www.ugcleague.net/forum/showthread.php?60620-Open&p=327502#post327502

Removed again

Let the past die, kill it if you have to.

do this, forbid anyone who's already played in that division or perhaps made playoffs from playing it again, and give the top teams free premium for the next open season. let people start out for free and then get them ensconced. solves both the big skill leap between ugc and esea and the initial monetary cost. wouldn't lose esea any money either since the players in that division would be 100% new and many of them would be converted into paying customers after a while. smurf-type shenanigans might be an issue though. perhaps in the context of the tf2 scene it would be pretty easy to figure out who the mysterious really good person in the beginner division is and snitch on em lol

i think the only reason they have for keeping the ugc 6v6 divisions is that "hey uh..its free and you get a nice badge on your nipple..".
only reasons they have, is that its free and you get a nice little badge, but most people don't care about the badge. only reason i played UGC for so long is cause i couldn't pay for ESEA, most people play the ugc 6s division cause its free.

This is like telecom companies suddenly getting better internet in areas where Google Fiber is announced.
FPL gonna rule comp TF2 in 2 years time regardless of what E$EA does, mark my words.

remember that no entry fee isnt the only incentive they added, getting IM back is huge for the parity of open and actually makes it realistic for a new team to maybe make playoffs, which in itself is probably a bigger incentive than taking out the entry fee. especially since $10 really isnt that much and if youre capable of paying for ESEA premium you can more than likely pay the league fees too

People who say this will do next to nothing for the league are dangerously ignorant and are tunneling on the fact they think this was a move made to attract UGC players when that is likely not even close to the main purpose. Quit being a bunch of forum warriors looking for up frags.

Any step forward is a good step for TF2, small or large. Embrace and support that shit

This game is a community game built on communities - you think taking away the only NA community league and forcing people who want to play 6v6 TF2 to pay to play (bear in mind this free entry offer probably only survive one season as well) is going to grow TF2 then you're the one that is delusional, just kill the game quicker.

And also the competitive community is more than ESEA and this forum.

This UGC hate is really weird, it's like people on this forum want to find something to blame for why TF2 isn't an eSport, when everyone knows the real reasons are Valve / Games design and lack of general interest in the game are the reasons.

I will say two things on the subject:

1) Most people are turning this into a "chance to kill UGC" discussion and making it about that, I am merely posting the reality, ESEA may understand their demographic well but I understand competitive TF2 better than any of them having been a part of it for a decade, it will not work.

2) Unlike ESEA, UGC/ETF2L have never forced me to pay for the pleasure of installing malware to damage my computer - Could not care less if this league dies.

Oh and I don't care about upfrags - the respect of this forum is meaningless to me, bullshit needs to be called out whether it's popular opinion or not.

To some degree it does make it more accessible to some ugc players since you can buy premium with steam wallet.

Hildreth, I see where you are coming from and what not, but really? Almost all of us playing in ESEA, especially the ones who have been playing in open since IM died, have been wanting IM to come back. ESEA does something to where its easier to play in open for new comers and helps fellow IM players play stronger teams making it easier to improve and enjoy the game more. As for you caring less if the league dies or not, I don't think someones opinion who has never played in ESEA except 4 matches in Season 15 matters much, when people such as myself only have ESEA as a competitive way to enjoy 6s in a serious matter.

You have to agree with lucrative, any step that helps TF2 no matter the size, is good. Whether its massive updates or small changes, anything helps.

yeah fuck the esea client

It's such a pointless idea and esea has shown that it shouldn't be trusted with it's client in the past.

I think these euros who are raining on our parade are just jealous...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/256/183/9d5.png

i mean people who want to play esea will play esea

people who want to play ugc will play ugc

im positive that most (at least 90% of) new players looking into joining the competitive scene in NA are aware of both

if anything putting everyone in esea will just create more divisions i guess???

i think things are fine as of right now

if anything will bring a resurgence it would have to be esea LAN

on the topic at hand, this is just nice to not have teams of extreme skill differences playing against each other

i wanted to say this last night, thought it'd go away quickly, but i'm seeing it all over twitter today, so..

i suggest we stop engaging sigafoo, and instead completely ignore. it's obvious he thrives on being able to have arguments on twitter and reddit so that he can get some attention for his league and what have you (14 reddit posts since the announcement, 25+ tweets). he WANTS you to argue with him. if you just ignore him, he loses the opportunity to keep talking about why RGL is so great and other leagues are so bad.

he said his little comments, just let them sit there in silence, ignored. let him live in his world where 6v6 and HL players magically show up to his league and aren't toxic anymore.

edit: evidently he was upset about this post and blocked me on steam and twitter

someone's gotta chill

Alright, I'll bite. Bear in mind that I've had a pretty garbage week (my pet died on Friday, I haven't been able to properly spend time with her before she died because I have been working 7 days a week. The company I work for, which is essentially a non-profit social service, is being run into the ground by a managerial team who believe they are in charge of a start-up company).

I'm a UGC 6s admin, some of you silent ones not saying anything have dealt with me. I've adminned across a spectrum of UGC divisions and have dealt with just about every issue. I've also played in ESEA myself since s23 and also ran a last-minute ESEA team drive in S24, helped j4v out with his team drive in ESEA s26, and am currently on-board with helping Jarrett with the next season newbie mixes team drive.

If you have any suggestions, feedback or actual criticism for UGC 6s, please message me. I would like to have this league be accessible and playable to the people who want to play in it. I don't know if I will respond to this thread again because like I said, I've had a garbage week and I hardly have any more desire to deal with more of it on my one day off.

idk, in my experience people know ugc waaaay more than esea. i remember hellbent posting a little whiles back that putting “ugc plat roamer” garnered way more viewers than “invite roamer”. most people dont know ugc 6’s is a joke

edit: ugc plat 6’s is a joke, heard that steel takes it pretty seriously, silver not sure

Very nice.

The news itself is good - publicity as it were. IM coming back is good too.

I still wish Killing and I could've worked out a deal but that was blocked by some of the powers that be that have since faded into the sunset :/

I played in UGC for several months before learning p much anything about ESEA/ETF2L/TFTV/etc. I'm not the only one.

For the few people on this forum that may not know: I ran newbie mixes as a (the?) head admin for a few years. The notion that the players at the lowest level of competition automatically know about ESEA is straight up wrong. Very few people, if anyone, has had the chance to so personally talk to so many new players as myself, and overwhelmingly the players either don't know about ESEA or have this mentality of "it's impossible, they're all so good!"

The general success of our team drives and the retention those players (and occasionally those teams) in the ESEA league is evidence that the only real barrier of entry into ESEA is one that has been built up in UGC culture for years.

If UGC really want to play the "we're doing it for the good of the community and nothing else! you should be grateful!" card that I've seen so many times over the years, maybe you guys should stop deleting shit from the forums that lets these (potentially highly competitive) new players know that comp tf2 is so much more than UGC.

UGC serves a great purpose that you laid out in your post well. If your post represents an official UGC stance, then the league should recognize its purpose as the "fun" or "more casual" league that people play in because of their inability to play in ESEA "financially, emotionally, or time-management wise(sic)". Provide your players with tools to improve and eventually work their way into Open over time if they don't meet the three criteria you listed as causing people to play in UGC.

You seem like a good person and a great admin, as many people within the UGC org are. I hope that you and others can be the voices of reason that push us towards being the more sustainable, less split up community that EVERYONE wants. :)

I am trying to work something out in regards to making the announcement about ESEA fees. It is my sincere belief that people should play in the league they want to play in.

The UGC forum rules, to which anyone who wishes to use the forums agrees, specifically prohibit any kind of advertising without acquiring permission from the head admin beforehand, which is why all of the threads are being deleted. If you guys wouldn't mind, please stop trying to spam the announcement and let me actually try and work something out with my fellow admins who already don't exactly have the inclination to be accommodating on the account of being told to die in a fire.

I actually have the ability to make a proper visible announcement and not just a thread that will get buried in a few weeks, so please, let me try and work on it.