Please forgive the scrubbiness in my opinions, I know I'm not good.
New pyro is still dumb. He's marginally less dumb than before, but he's still dumb. IMO no other class shares Pyro's incredibly low initial skill requirement and simultaneously unimpressive potential when used by a skilled player. Pyro might just be the least exciting class to watch in the whole game, and that's really impressive considering he has literal stationary aimbot constructors as competition.
Fire doesn't deal unreasonable damage, that isn't really my issue with it anyhow. It's the idiotically giant hitbox stream and idiotically short range on fire that grates on me. Pyro primaries currently either deal pretty good damage completely for free, or are entirely useless. No middle ground whatsoever. Reduces combat interactions with enemies to a flowchart basically consisting of the following steps.
1) does my enemy have tons of friends looking at me? If so, disengage, resupply and find a new angle. If not:
2) is my enemy in flame range? If so, ezmode burn them to death and hope they don't hit clutch shots. If not:
3) is the enemy looking at me? If not, run at them and burn them. If so:
4) does the enemy have a gun out? If not, run at them trying to burn them until they get help. If so:
5) is their gun hitscan? If so, retreat to nearest cover and run back to your team / camp the corner hoping to surprise them if you know you won't escape. If not, do the same thing but don't turn tail, you might be able to guess their firing timing and cheese them with a reflect.
Still braindead. So, so braindead. Either you reach your free damage range and you get free damage, or you don't and you run back to your team because you'll never successfully approach a competent scout/soldier who has seen you. It's like they designed the flamethrower with the express purpose of preventing mechanical skill from affecting player performance. At least fire is consistent in damage output and range now, I guess, but I'd hardly call it fixed. It's both ineffective vs good players and way too easy to use.
Even the thermal thruster is meh. Just feels like a slower, less versatile rocket jump on a cooldown. Does nothing better than a rocket jump, just is easier to do. Even the no health cost benefit is basically moot if you know where packs are.
Pyro still seems ezmode in pubs, terrible in comp and overall just like a worse soldier that can opt to tilt specific opponents by dedicating their life to denying one person's spam/ability to move
At least airblast doesn't reset enemy momentum for free anymore, but the hitbox is still hilariously easy to land in close quarters and the pushback is still strong.
IMO the jungle inferno changes were an improvement, but an astoundingly unimpressive one. Pyro is not "fixed".
Why won't they just swallow their pride and give Pyro a super narrow, longer reaching primary fire stream? Adding airblast was a gameplay mistake, and looks way more immersion breaking than a super thin flame stream would
Please tell me I'm missing something and there's some cool new pyro tech that makes him actually fun
Please forgive the scrubbiness in my opinions, I know I'm not good.
New pyro is still dumb. He's marginally less dumb than before, but he's still dumb. IMO no other class shares Pyro's incredibly low initial skill requirement and simultaneously unimpressive potential when used by a skilled player. Pyro might just be the least exciting class to watch in the whole game, and that's really impressive considering he has literal stationary aimbot constructors as competition.
Fire doesn't deal unreasonable damage, that isn't really my issue with it anyhow. It's the idiotically giant hitbox stream and idiotically short range on fire that grates on me. Pyro primaries currently either deal pretty good damage completely for free, or are entirely useless. No middle ground whatsoever. Reduces combat interactions with enemies to a flowchart basically consisting of the following steps.
1) does my enemy have tons of friends looking at me? If so, disengage, resupply and find a new angle. If not:
2) is my enemy in flame range? If so, ezmode burn them to death and hope they don't hit clutch shots. If not:
3) is the enemy looking at me? If not, run at them and burn them. If so:
4) does the enemy have a gun out? If not, run at them trying to burn them until they get help. If so:
5) is their gun hitscan? If so, retreat to nearest cover and run back to your team / camp the corner hoping to surprise them if you know you won't escape. If not, do the same thing but don't turn tail, you might be able to guess their firing timing and cheese them with a reflect.
Still braindead. So, so braindead. Either you reach your free damage range and you get free damage, or you don't and you run back to your team because you'll never successfully approach a competent scout/soldier who has seen you. It's like they designed the flamethrower with the express purpose of preventing mechanical skill from affecting player performance. At least fire is consistent in damage output and range now, I guess, but I'd hardly call it fixed. It's both ineffective vs good players and way too easy to use.
Even the thermal thruster is meh. Just feels like a slower, less versatile rocket jump on a cooldown. Does nothing better than a rocket jump, just is easier to do. Even the no health cost benefit is basically moot if you know where packs are.
Pyro still seems ezmode in pubs, terrible in comp and overall just like a worse soldier that can opt to tilt specific opponents by dedicating their life to denying one person's spam/ability to move
At least airblast doesn't reset enemy momentum for free anymore, but the hitbox is still hilariously easy to land in close quarters and the pushback is still strong.
IMO the jungle inferno changes were an improvement, but an astoundingly unimpressive one. Pyro is not "fixed".
Why won't they just swallow their pride and give Pyro a super narrow, longer reaching primary fire stream? Adding airblast was a gameplay mistake, and looks way more immersion breaking than a super thin flame stream would
Please tell me I'm missing something and there's some cool new pyro tech that makes him actually fun
Don't we have a thread for this already
Don't we have a thread for this already
VeccDon't we have a thread for this already
Is there? If so I'm sorry for the clutter. I searched but didn't find one
[quote=Vecc]Don't we have a thread for this already[/quote]
Is there? If so I'm sorry for the clutter. I searched but didn't find one
Give pyro a lightning gun you say? Interesting idea. I can't place it, but I think I might have heard it before.
Give pyro a lightning gun you say? Interesting idea. I can't place it, but I think I might have heard it before.
Where's MustardOverlord when you need him
Where's MustardOverlord when you need him
BBiA_duchessGive pyro a lightning gun you say? Interesting idea. I can't place it, but I think I might have heard it before.
IDK how I feel about a hitscan lightning gun (ez jump denial?), but a very similar concept made with fast projectiles definitely seems like a workable concept to me
[quote=BBiA_duchess]Give pyro a lightning gun you say? Interesting idea. I can't place it, but I think I might have heard it before.[/quote]
IDK how I feel about a hitscan lightning gun (ez jump denial?), but a very similar concept made with fast projectiles definitely seems like a workable concept to me
worse than previous pyro imo
worse than previous pyro imo
revert pyro back to 2012 status and never talk about it again tbh
all our attempts to tell valve how to improve it are misinterpreted, I'm kind of done with that shit
revert pyro back to 2012 status and never talk about it again tbh
all our attempts to tell valve how to improve it are misinterpreted, I'm kind of done with that shit
make pyro a melee only class
make pyro a melee only class
BooleanIs there? If so I'm sorry for the clutter. I searched but didn't find one
http://www.teamfortress.tv/44520/pyro-does-way-too-much-damage-now
[quote=Boolean]Is there? If so I'm sorry for the clutter. I searched but didn't find one[/quote]
http://www.teamfortress.tv/44520/pyro-does-way-too-much-damage-now
Pyro can never be a fun class to play against.
Being set on fire (or wm+1'd into while you can't see) or pushed away using airblast just isn't fun and I think it's pretty tricky to make pyro skill-based.
Pyro can never be a fun class to play against.
Being set on fire (or wm+1'd into while you can't see) or pushed away using airblast just isn't fun and I think it's pretty tricky to make pyro skill-based.
honestly would have preffered if they spent time on that godawful MM than "fixing" the pyro -
Pyro wasnt that broken to begin with come on now. Flames had some RNG inconsistencies but at least reflecting made more sense than just holding M1
honestly would have preffered if they spent time on that godawful MM than "fixing" the pyro -
Pyro wasnt that broken to begin with come on now. Flames had some RNG inconsistencies but at least reflecting made more sense than just holding M1
sagehonestly would have preffered if they spent time on that godawful MM than "fixing" the pyro -
Pyro wasnt that broken to begin with come on now. Flames had some RNG inconsistencies but at least reflecting made more sense than just holding M1
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
Idk about pyro not being broken before. He was pretty buggy, 40-some% extra range during ping spikes is garbage. However, if they were going to update him to not be buggy but still be terribly designed, they could've at least taken a reasonable amount of time to do it
[quote=sage]honestly would have preffered if they spent time on that godawful MM than "fixing" the pyro -
Pyro wasnt that broken to begin with come on now. Flames had some RNG inconsistencies but at least reflecting made more sense than just holding M1[/quote]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
Idk about pyro not being broken before. He was pretty buggy, 40-some% extra range during ping spikes is garbage. However, if they were going to update him to not be buggy but still be terribly designed, they could've at least taken a reasonable amount of time to do it
syphworse than previous pyro imo
I'm curious to hear why you think so
[quote=syph]worse than previous pyro imo[/quote]
I'm curious to hear why you think so
BooleanWholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
[quote=Boolean]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
[/quote]
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
Booleansyphworse than previous pyro imo
I'm curious to hear why you think so
because they made w+m1 more powerful
[quote=Boolean][quote=syph]worse than previous pyro imo[/quote]
I'm curious to hear why you think so[/quote]
because they made w+m1 more powerful
SpuBooleanWholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro
[quote=Spu][quote=Boolean]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
[/quote]
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk[/quote]
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro
BooleanSpuBooleanWholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro
http://puu.sh/yVOwY/82edebb28b.png
[quote=Boolean][quote=Spu][quote=Boolean]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
[/quote]
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk[/quote]
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro[/quote]
[img]http://puu.sh/yVOwY/82edebb28b.png[/img]
the only way to save tf2 would be to revert the entire game back to the point of the medic unlocks
the only way to save tf2 would be to revert the entire game back to the point of the medic unlocks
BooleanSpuBooleanWholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro
worse meaning it is less balanced than it was before. it's way too strong for no reason, wins every 1v1 close range regardless of skill because you can just shake your mouse and win.
[quote=Boolean][quote=Spu][quote=Boolean]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
[/quote]
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk[/quote]
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro[/quote]
worse meaning it is less balanced than it was before. it's way too strong for no reason, wins every 1v1 close range regardless of skill because you can just shake your mouse and win.
Can I at least get some kind of all class secondary unlock that is a pair of glasses that allow me to see through the pyro's flames to give me a chance at killing him
Can I at least get some kind of all class secondary unlock that is a pair of glasses that allow me to see through the pyro's flames to give me a chance at killing him
Ninlopmentioned this in a couple other threads, basically i made this video before the update happened as like a prediction sorta thing going over the lg concept, its unlisted now because the context is wrong but i feel like my points still stand,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L_-j_DufFI
i felt really really disappointed with jungle inferno in the end, like it was cool and all but right now it feels literally like it did before, like the game feels exactly the same
if you watch my video thankyou <33 vvvvv interesting thread
Your points absolutely still stand, great video. I share your frustrations with intentionality in aiming. Pre-JI, Pyro's biggest issue IMO was dealing 40+ DPS on point blank enemies by spinning wildly in circles. Post-JI, he does that even better. Valve pls
SpuBooleanSpuBooleanWholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro
worse meaning it is less balanced than it was before. it's way too strong for no reason, wins every 1v1 close range regardless of skill because you can just shake your mouse and win.
Eww, really? I've only pubbed since the update (haven't been playing a lot of TF2 lately) so I didn't expect close range with a good Scout/soldier be THAT free. I just thought my pub opponents had terribad movement, not like I can really tell how they're moving anyways through all the stupid vision obscuring particles I spew
These people work for the company that made CS1.6, how did they botch this update so terribly
[quote=Ninlop]mentioned this in a couple other threads, basically i made this video before the update happened as like a prediction sorta thing going over the lg concept, its unlisted now because the context is wrong but i feel like my points still stand,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L_-j_DufFI
i felt really really disappointed with jungle inferno in the end, like it was cool and all but right now it feels literally like it did before, like the game feels exactly the same
if you watch my video thankyou <33 vvvvv interesting thread[/quote]
Your points absolutely still stand, great video. I share your frustrations with intentionality in aiming. Pre-JI, Pyro's biggest issue IMO was dealing 40+ DPS on point blank enemies by spinning wildly in circles. Post-JI, he does that even better. Valve pls
[quote=Spu][quote=Boolean][quote=Spu][quote=Boolean]
Wholeheartedly agree about MM. Valve comp's current state is shameful. Casual still has random crits. There is still no functioning rank system. They have provided us nothing of value in that regard.
[/quote]
i wanna add onto this
valve spent an entire year preparing a new competitive matchmaking system and then stated more or less that they could not make the features that the community wanted that was just a copy paste of dota and csgo mm and instead released the somehow more broken pyro class
if that doesnt tell u that valve doesn't care about what the competitive community wants idk[/quote]
New pyro is worse?? Could you elaborate? I'm curious about comp player opinions on new pyro[/quote]
worse meaning it is less balanced than it was before. it's way too strong for no reason, wins every 1v1 close range regardless of skill because you can just shake your mouse and win.[/quote]
Eww, really? I've only pubbed since the update (haven't been playing a lot of TF2 lately) so I didn't expect close range with a good Scout/soldier be THAT free. I just thought my pub opponents had terribad movement, not like I can really tell how they're moving anyways through all the stupid vision obscuring particles I spew
These people work for the company that made CS1.6, how did they botch this update so terribly
probably because the TF2 team most likely doesnt get to design all update themselves, especially a big one like this. if they did go ahead with the LG thing, it changes a pretty big part of the central game. its like taking a class and replacing it with another. like could u imagine they decide to take the scattergun away from scout and replace it with the nailgun thing (like needles i think) would change the whole facking 6s
at some point some higher ups like GabeN are prolly asked to give a yes or no to the idea the dedicated TF2 team suggest, and these ppl who dont play the game and are in the mindset of the old TF2 team with robin etc, who had much more opposed views to the actual players than the current team do. it doesnt matter that the new team does though, cause in the minds of valve employees not tf2 team they wanna make it as casual as possible
ofc its all speculation valve operates like that but it seems plausible. the tf2 team seem like they play it a lot, and u cant play this game, on any level, and not see over and over again ppl complaining about w m1 and minis. if they had full control im sure they would of done the lg thing, but anyway doesnt matter cause they arent going to change this design. its done but they might fix the bugs
tldr stop making threads nothings going to change. even if we keep talking about it we just labeled comp players in valves eyes, which means the only thing we kno about the game is 6s
probably because the TF2 team most likely doesnt get to design all update themselves, especially a big one like this. if they did go ahead with the LG thing, it changes a pretty big part of the central game. its like taking a class and replacing it with another. like could u imagine they decide to take the scattergun away from scout and replace it with the nailgun thing (like needles i think) would change the whole facking 6s
at some point some higher ups like GabeN are prolly asked to give a yes or no to the idea the dedicated TF2 team suggest, and these ppl who dont play the game and are in the mindset of the old TF2 team with robin etc, who had much more opposed views to the actual players than the current team do. it doesnt matter that the new team does though, cause in the minds of valve employees not tf2 team they wanna make it as casual as possible
ofc its all speculation valve operates like that but it seems plausible. the tf2 team seem like they play it a lot, and u cant play this game, on any level, and not see over and over again ppl complaining about w m1 and minis. if they had full control im sure they would of done the lg thing, but anyway doesnt matter cause they arent going to change this design. its done but they might fix the bugs
tldr stop making threads nothings going to change. even if we keep talking about it we just labeled comp players in valves eyes, which means the only thing we kno about the game is 6s
i mean who cares if they operate like that or not the point is that shit is never going to happen there was like 100 threads before the update was even announced on it im sure they were aware people wanted that but they dont care. how many years has it been of ppl complaining about minis but theyve done fuck all about it? they dont care how stupid and annoying their game is
i only said that cause thats how i felt it was ran and it made sense to be as a reason why the update was so shit cause the idea they have complete control of the game and felt this is wat was needed doesnt make sense to me
i mean who cares if they operate like that or not the point is that shit is never going to happen there was like 100 threads before the update was even announced on it im sure they were aware people wanted that but they dont care. how many years has it been of ppl complaining about minis but theyve done fuck all about it? they dont care how stupid and annoying their game is
i only said that cause thats how i felt it was ran and it made sense to be as a reason why the update was so shit cause the idea they have complete control of the game and felt this is wat was needed doesnt make sense to me
people in 2015: GIB PYRO CONSISTENT PARTICLES and flamethrower have dps!!!
People in 2018: wtf valve
its as if the community has a bunch of very vocal retards that have no idea what a balance is.
i miss the damage rampup and dropoff in the cone of flames from old pyro, it took the most "skill" to master and catching pyro mains with their pants down with their degreaser was really fun.
Just look at how before the engi update 99% of peoples suggestion was some mini sentry concept and people got what they wanted :DD
people in 2015: GIB PYRO CONSISTENT PARTICLES and flamethrower have dps!!!
People in 2018: wtf valve
its as if the community has a bunch of very vocal retards that have no idea what a balance is.
i miss the damage rampup and dropoff in the cone of flames from old pyro, it took the most "skill" to master and catching pyro mains with their pants down with their degreaser was really fun.
Just look at how before the engi update 99% of peoples suggestion was some mini sentry concept and people got what they wanted :DD