getting krit heals after is some cheese too.

Yeah speaking as someone who uses the hell out of it, it's super useful and should probably be banned outright.

The logistics of banning it are pretty hard though. Even if you ban the loadout switcher, it won't be very hard to write another script that switches to and from another class very quickly. The only solution I can think of is map changes; setting the actual spawn area far back enough from the door that the door has to close before you can change classes, like in the newest granary pro.

T̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶i̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶l̶l̶e̶g̶a̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶E̶S̶E̶A̶ ̶(̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶I̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶g̶u̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶?̶)̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶f̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶m̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶w̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶i̶n̶.̶

i didn't know it was illegal but i have never seen a medic do it in a scrim or match before, only in pugs
and what saltysally said i forgot the mention there are instant crit heals..

i mean has anyone ever experienced playing scout where you're pushing badlands last with uber ad you do 180+ to a soldier and there's a window of time where he walks in spawn and the door remains open until he's far enough that it will close but he just hits a bind and *poof* he just magically disappears from your universe and you had exactly enough time to land that final shot to finish him off? I could tell that probably has happened to me at least 4 times this week from scrims on badlands.

just use it

its op

From when I researched this a few seasons back, there used to be a ruleset that encompassed backspawning/uber preservation specifically in ESEA. However, it's not there any longer - I've read every single word of the ruleset - but from what I've heard, using it on Badlands to preserve uber (because of the nature of the forward spawn) is illegal, while on other maps it is not. Right now it would be on admin discretion.

I can say that I, and most other medics that I know, do use it, though we USUALLY don't preserve uber - there's rarely a situation to do this unless you abuse Badlands spawns. Generally, the only situation is when you spawn with a teammate as the rest of your team caps, and you forward spawn with said teammate and you have maybe 10% uber that's preserved.

I plan on continue using it, although I err on the safe side and try not to abuse it (with high uber % preservation spawn switching) so that admins don't have a reason to make it illegal.

yes, it' unfair and broken, it should not be a thing

etf2l doesn't ban it
esea bans it only for purpose of preserving uber percentage as medic (unless something changed recently)

people can manually just press , and any number really quickly then change back to the class they were, i think this would still happen even if you remove this bind.

It's more reliable if the item servers are slow (or down) as well.

Can we really call it unfair? It's not exclusive to anyone, loadout presets are literally part of the game settings, I have F1 - F4 bound to loadout presets A - D, and I use them all the time, as I'm sure many other players do.

If someone gets to the spawn door on 20hp after you've been chasing them it does seem appropriate that they've reached a safe spot and they get a chance to survive.

You can do the exact same thing with switching class by pressing [ , 1 , 2 ] and it will reset crit heal and hp, or is that also unfair? Should be ban the use of all scripts in the game? Should you only be allowed to switch class when you are dead?

Honestly the things people choose to complain about in TF2 are beyond me.

just ddos item servers so it doesnt work, problem solved

ya thats the biggest thing imo, being able to peek a door w 300 while holding last, just to jump back and instantly have 300 again is pretty broke. resupplying regularly doesnt give crit heals

all the player has to do is be at the door frame and he'll be able to instantly spawn into safety, nuze

and if people were to change classes it would take more time because you would have to switch twice

think of it this way, lets switch the class from a soldier to a medic. we push with lets say 30 ad.. i drop the medic to 20 hp he could have about 85% uber charge and he just preserve his uber back using a quickloadout bind RIGHT AT THE DOOR FRAME and he's able to get uber as we're fighting his team.
if you're saying that its the same thing as just switching classes the medic wouldn't have that 85+% anymore would he?

Only class it's broken on is medic because it keeps uber percentage

Demos can keep stickies I guess but I don't think that's super common

Soldiers on scouts there is no difference between this and just changing classes really fast

Also almost 0% chance this can be fully enforced because people use it to just straight up change loadouts sometimes.

anything that doesnt benefit scouts getting 5dmg kills is a plus in my book

This kind of scripts is part of TF2, stop complaining pleeease

It's not technically unfair since everyone can do it, but by that logic we shouldn't have any weapon bans either. It just seems janky that all you have to do is get into the spawn area and POOF, instead of actually getting the door to close behind you.

Because class and loadout switching are just a natural part of the game that you can even perform without binds, banning them is too problematic. The only real solution is the map adjustments you mentioned where the resupply zone inside the spawn door does not overlap with any region where the doors may remain open. However, I don't think it's worth corrupting our map pool with even more pro versions in order to achieve this. It's a topic to bring up with Valve.

The thing is my dude, the only way you could actually get rid of this without having crazy amounts of rule enforcement (great use of TF2's limited resources) would be to make some pretty drastic changes to the game and how scripts are used.

If you really want to stop medics getting into resup to secure the frag you should make the big brain play and stop the medic from getting into the spawn - it's not like it hasn't been done before.

i am consistently baffled that not all high-level tf2 players have this simple bind in their config (kaidus, war, etc). forget banning it, too complicated, it should just be the meta. i didn't realize until now that people might be trying to take the moral high ground or something.

the one downside of the bind is being moved to a random place in spawn.
even if ressupply cabinets restored crit heals the bind would be more useful since it saves some time that you'd spend running to the cabinet.
seems like one of those comp TF2 things that valve wont ever think about, like uber masking

should be banned on medic and demo.

People have had class switch binds for quite literally a decade. Come on now lads.

the problem with this is it makes you essentially unkillable by just standing near a spawn door. shooting into the spawn is part of the game, and it makes a sniper standing in the doorway literally unkillable by anything except another sniper. anyone who pretends that anyone can press , then a number to switch classes just as fast as pressing a single loadout bind is stupid, you just can't.

its cheese and turns the entire spawn into an instant resupply cabinet, with literally no chance of being punished unless you just don't press the button

messiah thinks its cheating i don't think its on that level but it does make anyone standing near the spawn door essentially be unkillable without having to walk back to the cabinet, theres no downside. Before this was a thing people had to weigh the consequences of walking back to the resupply cabinet with how long they'd be stuck out of the fight at last. Now you instantly get fully healed and reloaded just for walking half an inch in the spawn door and the place you spawn is rarely ever farther from the door than the actual cabinet

i also feel like this is a badlands problem more than a spawn problem, just because badlands is bad

I would say there is a different reason to ban it. Yesterday i was playing a pug on upward and when i managed to find the enemy spy, he just went near our spawn doors and used the bind to safely return to his own spawn room.

its a bug that players can abuse so yea it should not really be allowed atm.

almost had my upfrag there, sneaky bastard

I mean, med mains could just make an agreement not to be lame and preserve uber (as was the rule in the past - you would have to report it to ESEA if you had evidence that somebody back spawned and preserved uber) which wouldn't be hard at all to figure out in most cases where it would actually affect the outcome of a round - and the STV is publicly available.

These sorts of things can be established with generalized sporting rules.

Does spawn binding make the game worse? If so, then we ought to just all agree not to do it and to punish those who do for being lame. This would be easy to implement so long as the ESEA admins were willing to award a round to the wronged team - as was the rule in the past for uber preservation when backspawning and force spawning multiple heavies and so on. I mean they get paid to do this kinda stuff so may as well use it if it's that bothersome lol.

I don't see spawn binding in itself as a problem - the uber preservation is more irksome, but I hardly ever see it happen outside of pugs lol.

Besides the whole "Medics keeping ubercharge on loadout change" shenanigans, the whole problem with the loadout change bind abuse is directly connected to the way spawns are made in maps; you see, in most comp maps, spawns are made so that the supply cabinets are far away from spawn doors and super close to spawn points. This is the main problem.

Let's take Process' Spawn for example: say you're at the spawn door and in need of health/ammo/metal, why should you walk all the way back to the cabinet and back again to the spawn door when you can just instantly teleport from the spawn door into the spawn point area -- which just *happens* to be at the same distance as the supply cabinets, be fully recharged and just do half of the total walk for half of the time taken? It's simply more efficient that way to use the loadout change bind, and it's why Engi offclassers abuse the hell out of it when building a Sentry.

While yes, we should definitely push Valve to get rid of all Uber when a Medic changes loadout, we should also put more attention into the spawns itself when testing comp maps so that loadout change bind abuse isn't as rewarding to the user.

A definite golden rule for this dilemma would be like so: Spawn Door >> Supply Cab >>>> Spawn Points; it'd make it so just walking back to the Supply Cab would be over twice as fast to do so as just using the loadout change bind, and would make it so the loadout change bind is only really useful when you're stuck at a forward spawn or if you'd rather walk all the way back from teleporting at the spawn door than getting finished off and wait to respawn.

And most importantly, that'd only really leave with the "ubercharge kept on loadout change" problem for Valve to fix; no need for roundabout rules, no nothing of the sort.

Are medics allowed to use this to preserve uber when holding last? I've always assumed it wasn't allowed because it's gay af but maybe the rules are only against doing it on badlands forward spawn?

Yes, you can do it as long as you're not back spawning, which is for the most part only applicable to badlands.