because a few weird decisions doesnt = a bad league

and our other option is ugc

also https://twitter.com/tf2_dev/status/961620620801867777

https://i.imgur.com/R5bswei.png

Petition to change pyro’s name to firebug

Don't be embarrassed you didn't pick it up.

stop

getting massive throwbacks to alfie wallbugging the fuck out of product on lan against us <3

im gunna miss spamming through this and doing 50 damage once every 3 games

Okay I really dont like this one. If you have someone doing this they are extended from choke and pretty far from big door. I think that being able to see when someone is pushing is worth basically not have a team member with you in a fight. Maybe make it so you can take damage through it?

https://clips.twitch.tv/HonestNimbleParrotKappaRoss

So this would be banned?

he isn't wallbugging in the clip. he's just standing on a very thin part of the map. a wallbug is where you hold w into a wall and press a strafe key to stick and suspend yourself against the wall

see this video for a lot of examples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWYStOCoyps

I've been exploring/reverse engineering the game to find what's causing this to happen, if I find a fix, should I send it to VALVe or would that be a massive killer for the Jump community? Should I only send it if I can find a way to revert the possible changes?

https://i.imgur.com/CgQxHFz.png

might as well ban soldier alongside pyro, heavy and engineer

why just pander to scout mains when you can turn team fortress 2 into scout fortress 2 amirite

etf2l should ban weebs

etf2l should ban brits

first cow mangler now this big smh

the hoi has spoken

im almost convinced its because of this

regardless there's nothing wrong with it

From what I remember talking to someone far more knowledgeable about this than me long ago who was doing something similar, it's some kind of rounding error during a floating point approximation calculation involving distance from origin.

It's something like wallbugs occur on the faces of rectangular surfaces at certain distances (starting from 8 for some reason, and going 16/32/64/128/etc) from the origin point of the map based on the Cartesian axis distance for a short range after each of those numbers. (I think it was like 20 or something...don't remember)

If I remember right you should be able to consistently replicate it by making a rectangular wall at 9 to like 14 Hammer Units away from 0,0. This is like a super wallbug wall too, you should be able to stick to basically any part of it and let go of your movement keys and remain stuck.

e:

This was a talk I had like 3 some odd years ago so I might be misremembering parts of this though, but maybe it'll help you out.

Hey, before things here get even more out of control, we, as in the whole ETF2L admin team, have been reading through all the feedback from this thread and have come to the conclusion that the wallbug rule is very vague and doesn't explain the intention as to why it was even mentioned on the list with other banned spots.

First of all, we published a list like this in order to be more transparent towards our players regarding what exactly is allowed or not allowed in matches, with the aim to have teams and players report us any new spots in maps that can be exploited. An example of a map where this is the case is Gullywash, where a player is able to shoot through the shutter on last when it's closed or taunt with Equalizer/Escape Plan from elbow to the balcony without dying from it.

The part that caused a lot of controversy was this: "All maps: Sticking to angled walls", which is understandable, as it doesn't give any explanation to what instances it is applied to. Before anything, this has not been allowed on ETF2L for years now, as Muuki already said in post #6 in this thread. Regardless, we will be removing this part from the rules for now and I'll clarify it properly here.

We have decided that it's not fair to prohibit players from using simple game mechanics that can be done without the use of scripts or without the use of 3rd party plugins. With this in mind, due to popular demand, we will allow people to use the game mechanics as they see it fit. However, the use of map only mechanics, such as sticking yourself to an invisible wall, for example on Product, from where you can gain information about what's happening in the map without being able to be damaged by enemies is not allowed.
Any similar map exploit that is reported to us will be discussed within the admin team and we'll try to come to a conclusion about them as quickly as possible.

ETF2L's intention was to make people aware which spots in certain maps are allowed to be used and which are not. The post we published applies to old map spots that players in the past have been warned not to use. The only difference now is that they're of public knowledge now, instead of players having to come to us in order to know if a certain spot is allowed or not.

Thank

that's understandable, wallbugs where you are bullet blocked by invis walls are dumb.

this is confusing, how is sticking to a normal wall a "simple game mechanic", but when that wall is some invisible clipping instead of a displacement or something why does it suddenly become a map mechanic? would it be fine to wallbug on invisible clips if they didnt let you see any extra information?

I blame valve they should have patched this and many other things years ago.

if u hit a wallbug in a scrim/match ur either really lucky or really good (most likely the former)

first u need to find a wall that u can actually wallbug
then press all ur movement keys and throw ur mouse around til u get stuck
and even me explaining it this way is not as easy as it sounds because you have to find the perfect sweet spot on the wall with ur mouse and find which one of the 4 movement keys is gonna do the trick, and keep in mind most scenarios where u need to do a wallbug to survive are "do or die" scenarios so hitting a wallbug in those times is clutch

theres no point of banning this

also i remember a clip of i think kryptonite getting a wallbug in the wall above lower in sunshine 2nd and didnt die of fall damage because of it

The projectile hitboxes are collision hulls. These are the same as the bounding boxes that are used to calculate collision between players (and I'm assuming players and the world).

I'm pretty sure wallbugging only works on walls that are diagonal relative to the reference frame of the map because the corner of your collision hull is getting stuck in the wall (collision hulls don't rotate with players, they're fixed relative to map coordinates).

A lot of weird stuff happens on the diagonals of collision hulls, pretty sure they're responsible for a lot of facestabs and people meleeing you from 5 miles away because you still count as colliding while being 40% further away from the player model.

In this case can we ban melee if ur at a 45 degree angle to the map axes thank admins

the whole 'bug-using' thing is still pretty vague, for example would edgebugs count among this?

also as for all the individual map spots is there any reason we wouldnt use a 'new' version of the map where all the really dumb stuff is fixed? theres at least 5 or 6 pretty dumb ledges on gully alone i can think of, so to me it seems better to map all of these out fo the map rather than arbitrarily deciding which spots are legal and which ones arent

That actually sounds easily fixable with a mod

fixing this wouldn't even be hard to do. Other games (such as Reflex Arena) work around with capsule hitboxes instead of parallelepiped ones. Prolly even a cylindrical one would be an improvement

http://i.imgur.com/UFI4nDW.png

A cylindrical environment hitbox is probably ideal so that collision with floors and ceilings behave like normal, otherwise your height could change depending on how close to a ledge you are. This would also fix the issue where rocket jumping against 45 degree walls is harder because they are 40% further away but I don't see a change this significant making it into TF2 :(

You'd also have to be careful about conserving volume between the cylinder and the cuboid because it has a pretty significant effect on whether your directs/pipes hit or not.