seems like a bad map pool. I like the idea of the 20 minute timer, but I don't think it will work for highlander.

didn't that mikal guy try to do something like this? and if anything this only encourages people to play like europeans (huehue) if they're even at a single round advantage, to turtle up in a ridiculously defensive position and then try to out-lame the other team, especially if there's things to be won on the line. take, for example, that one mge cup that a certain video gamer won by going heavy: if there are things on the line, that's probably going to only encourage playing like a nerd.

While you do make some interesting points, I don't see how the changes in format and play make it any more "turtle" than any other style of play. Our goal is to make TF2 more watchable in a time limited format. Turtles will happen in a twenty minute match and a sixty minute match, which would you rather watch?

Thanks for your input.

I am an active part of the TryHard Stream, alongside several others who have been putting in a lot of hours to create content (http://www.youtube.com/tryhardstream). In no way is this project dead or dying, if anything we're growing rapidly and have been adapting and changing what we do and how we do it as feedback comes in from both the players and the viewers.

As far as the turtling with a single-round advantage: The round timer plugin we've had developed combined with sudden-death being enabled discourages this behavior. If a team tries to run the clock down, it goes to sudden death which favors the attackers, thus there's a real incentive to push. To date, we've still never had a show match go to sudden death, and it's happened all of once in our pug nights (on warmfront). If your team would like to try this tactic and be featured on one of our videos, then please contact me or hex and we'll find someone to pair you up against and we'll see how it works out.

We've also tailored the whitelist to include only weapons that provide and offensive buff at the cost of defense (critacola, axstingusiher) and ban items that only provide a defensive buff and thus slow the game down (wrangler, equalizer). Everything about the rules is designed to prevent turtling and boring to watch defensive play. There's a good chance the timers will be adjusted even further to give teams less time to stand around and build uber.

I totally agree with you on people playing like nerds when there's prizes on the line, but restrictions on things like playing heavy in MGE remove people's ability to do that. Without items like the caber, market gardener, sandvich, beggar's bazooka, wrangler, etc on the whitelist people don't have that option.

I don't understand the map pool. KOTH and PL are the best gamemodes for HL. Other than that, cp_steel is the best HL map. Stick to those gamemodes and steel.

You're still creating the problem that happens in euro/aussie tf2. The moment a team gets an advantage whether it's 1 round or 3, they'll be more encouraged to sit on it if they know the other team is pressured to race the clock. Even etf2l is making a push to change over to the NA ruleset.

Edit: Croissant is terrible

@enigma - Can we get a teamfortresstv league already?

Don't get me wrong, I love 5CP. It is a great, complex, fun-to-play gamemode in this wonderful game we all play.

5CP is difficult in HL, even for the top teams, because so many classes have limited mobility. This means a slower paced game and more stalemates.

To alleviate this problem, the HL community, for the most part, avoids exceptionally large maps, because pushing off of player advantages is very difficult when they all spawn before your slower classes even get to the fight.

With that in mind, I'll congratulate you guys for including great maps like:

* Process,

*Gully,

* and (IMO) Granary,

but would really ask you to reconsider playing maps that don't cater to all 9 classes due to their layout, like:

* Badlands (pretty sure this was played in early UGC seasons... having to walk all the way up to Spire is not fun and the majority of classes have to do that),

* Warmfront (wipe at mid? Cool, you get 2nd and have to push into a last that people hate even in 6s),

* Croissant (this is played a lot in HL pugs for reasons I don't understand; despite being an overall pretty map, it's just too big and pushing off advantages is difficult for even the best teams. This leads to gameplay forgiving the worser team and drawing out matches that would usually be much quicker on a more compact map)

and more!

Perhaps consider using one of the gamemodes that is tried-and-true in HL, like Payload or King of The Hill!

also +1 for using suicide jokes in a semi-professional post haha so edgy

Considering the map selections, there is always a problem choosing maps for a very simple reason; everyone likes and dislikes different maps. It really is as simple as that. For all the reasons we should not include badlands there are another handful of reasons we should.

For the most part we tried to include in the map pool both maps you've seen played and maps which perhaps you haven't seen played in HL.

I agree with the comment on 5cps about mobility, in my opinion that only emphasizes the importance of team play in HL. A team that rolls out together wins together, and 5cp really stresses that aspect of gameplay.

Thanks for your feedback.

I played in a THS pug a few days ago. Was a fun game on process.

A couple thoughts on the white list ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rZG21qdpIBSerFcbr52AB2WsG5VabHe-uUEiqbhtf7Q/edit ): I don't think the escape plan should be banned because while it has an aspect of "defensive buff" it has a major positive impact on team's offensive capabilities.

The "equalizer" rollout is very easy to perform and leads to better heals at mid and a more eXplosive battle. Being able to escape with low health is definitely a perk. However, a player that just had a great escape will return to action faster then a player forced to wait for spawns. This means the escape plane is creating more offensive opportunities.

Pain Train is a great option, but almost becomes the default choice without the escape plan.

I also don't think the disciplinary action should be banned in your highlander rule set.

A positive from the pug was that the kill cam was turned off. It's always nice to see the damage you've left on someone, but this will underline the importance of knowing your damage and making smart calls.

Overall, the white list is terrible. Why can't you sword and board like Solid Snake? No Dead Ringer, sure is neutering spy. No sandvich or FoS in HL ? no thank you. No jag or southern hospitality, like they make THAT much of a difference.
It seems like most of the choices were made not because of their actual strength or balance, but because somebody is butt frustrated about them. I'd like to see the defense of the bans on most of the weapons, but I'm sure the defense will be absolutely inane.

I think a big part of it was to try and speed up the overall game, and take out weapons that didn't contribute to the entertainment for the viewers.

Why would he remove Market Gardner then? That shit is hilarious

BADLANDS IN HIGHLANDER?

A MAP WHERE 6 OUT OF THE 9 CLASSES CAN'T GET ON SPIRE AS EASILY AS COMPARED TO THE 1 IN 6S ,THAT ONE BEING THE MEDIC?

BADLANDS?????

edit:
NO PAYLOAD OR KOTH?
NOOOO PAYLOADDD OR KOTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH?

The escape plan speeds up rollouts considerably. As does the whip. Cloak and dagger makes spy LESS interactive, and thus CAN slow down the game. They may have thought it would speed it up, but it's more of a half assed-half considered list.

There isn't going to be a maplist or a whitelist that makes everyone happy. What will our combination of maps and whitelist produce?

We don't know. Technically, since it hasn't been played, no one knows. We're trying something new, hope it will be fun, and may adapt from there.

This is what we're doing. We're doing a tournament with a different map selection and a different white list than people are used to doing, playing, seeing. If that sounds fun to you, please join us. If not, please continue to provide feedback and theory of what you think these two things will lead to, but at this point it is all just theory.

We're going to play some TF2, make some videos, have some fun. Anyone who wants to come along is welcome.