http://www.teamfortress.tv/40659/map-voting-results

It seems like SpaceCadet had a pretty good system for gauging map popularity, maybe this could be implemented for decisions for future seasons?

Sunshine actually gets played a lot in pugs and a lot in scrims because it's variety and people don't hate the map and actually fun to play. Not everyone likes it, but very few actually hate it. Prolands is by far the least liked map in the pool. Also, everyone is just going to scrim cardinal week 3+4 then it'll be forgotten and perma banned in playoffs.

The philosophy behind introducing new maps is good and I have no problems playing this map in the season (despite the fact I think it looks like a clustered back-cap central).

The problem is that the philosophy is stupid when the team is removing other new maps. Sunshine was for the most part quite well received, and is a common map I see people scrimming/pugging often. It's definitely faired far better than Reckoner in that regard anyhow. If you want long term variance in the map pool, then it would have been in your best interests to keep Sunshine in the pool and instead replace a different map.

Imo Prolands or Granary were ideal candidates to be substituted for Cardinal for this one season, considering that Collaide confirmed that there is no intention for Prolands to be developed further, and you're not going with the newer version of Granary for reasons unknown. Based on Stinson's reasoning, it simply doesn't make sense that you'd remove Sunshine over these two perfectly more valid options.

Alternatively you could just stop making these out of nowhere decisions without consulting your community as Eemes said, but that's probably a preach to the choir based on history.

I have insider info that menty actually HATES sunshine and that is the ONLY reason it got removed from the pool.

I too have heard of this.

god bless you, Menty

LEAKED INFO SHOWING EXTREME MAP BIAS FROM ETF2L ADMIN MENTELEX

https://i.imgur.com/TjOIkYS.png

Fricking weebs... kill me

where's the "etf2l is run by gay weaboo nazis" wan?

i do not want to throw all admins under the bus when this time its clearly only one persons fault...

self-selection polls are never a good idea for determining popularity, since people with stronger opinions are more likely to vote and they might all even be random open players who can't play phi maps so they put them at the bottom. you can use them as a guideline and to narrow down which maps to discuss in more detail, but not really more than that

Ironic how when there was a map test cup and feedback requested barely anyone cared but now its real suddenly everyone cares...

TF2 community has not changed in a decade and never will.

yes. when nobody thought it really mattered, no one cared. why is that a problem

It's up for vote and it's not replacng any map. the ESEA map pool will have 9 maps, but since ESEA is implementing map bans for the regular season, who knows how much play it will see.

Maybe the fact that you don't care about providing real feedback when it's requested and encouraged is indicative of your feedback's value.

for one thing, asshole, i absolutely provide feedback when its asked of me, i just didnt want to play a euro cup. i actively participated in na new map pugs back when they happened and made plenty of posts on map threads about what i thought worked and what didnt. you havent even played competitive since fucking 2016.

its not fair to begrudge people for preferring to spend their time playing maps they know are gonna be in next season instead of spending time on a cup playing maps they have no reason to believe they will ever play in any official capacity.

edit, what im trying to say is that if etf2l had indicated at all that they were considering trying out these new maps, people would have cared a lot more

Yeah geel u happened to pick one of the people who actually does give lots of map feedback lol.

for the record i've enjoyed cardinal when I've played it in the past, but I haven't much. Hopefully I get to play a bit this season :D

LOL what do you think a map test cup is for? To test item cosmetics see how pretty the new Scout hat is? Jesus Christ.

Id rather bring back reckoner over b4nny map

lol. from the outside the cup just looked like a fun little thing that beater and etf2l had put together. literally no reason to believe the cup was immediately relevant outside of providing map feedback, which is only fun for a select group of people. ive got nothing against the people who did play it, but there's also no reason to hold a grudge against the people who didn't.

No reckoner.

Bring back Logjam

no reckoner, logjam yes

Bring back Logjam

a good man

Given that the dealbreaker for Sunshine seems to be that it's "the weakest" in the pool, what is ETF2L's argument for that specifically? All the other justifications mentioned could quite as easily be applied to most of the other maps and from what I can tell its replacement is much weaker anyway.

Rotating maps in and out of the pool to reduce staleness is a sound idea, but I think most players would rather play another season with the same pool than bring in a map that isn't ready for this kind of competition.

yo someone make a good koth map koth is liiiiiitttttttttt

go a/d
+no stalemates
+interesting strats
+more class variety and class switching
+new gamemode
-need to test maps
-more class variety

I think what's particularly frustrating with posts like this is the seemingly arcane and arbitrary process that the admins have used to make this decision, as opposed to my earlier suggestion of involving the community more. As is often the case with ETF2L admin decisions it seems that there is no set decision-making process and no accountability whatsoever; even from the language of this post it seems like the admin team have basically taken this whole decision on a whim. Given the tight-knit nature of the ETF2L it is ridiculous and frustrating that such decisions which really affect a lot of people should be decided by a what is really a very arbitrary process by a small circle of admins.

cool so add another koth/ad map