People think they are balanced. They get boring to play and watch though.

when the other option is cp_cardinal... well...

First time I've ever seen a map be described as saggy

s a g g y

they r tho

badlands and granary are my 2 favorite maps to play soldier on
they are fun maps

whether you like it or not, granary has an unique layout among 6s maps, and therefore offers a slightly different gameplay to master.

badlands also has unique things like open ressuply, an actual lobby forward hold, and a last impossible to push out from a spire fight that sets it apart from other maps. It also used to have a unique last cap time and scarce ammo but these features have been removed.

Not saying the maps are perfect, but if you remove them you're just going to make the game even less varied.

i don't like them so you shouldn't either!

if badlands last cap was fast again that map be perfectly fine

What does a saggy map mean?

because they are the only 2 maps which bring balance in the scout dominated meta and that is good because scout isnt really fun to play against

lets bring yukon to the pool

someone make a cp_yukon_pro

paging dagger

CP_GRAVELPIT

badlands and granary are literally the best maps in the current pool

only thing saggy here is your mums tits

Not metaphorically?

The problem with badlands is that as the game has changed (meds having scout speed being the primary factor) the map has played worse. This makes pushing out of last really difficult as it's so easy for the other med to get out of a failed push. Also, last is much harder to push now as the cap time is now about 1000 seconds. This means you just sit on last with pyro + sentry and can't lose.

Granary's pretty good and imo fits more with the mechanics of the game now than it used to and also plays better now than it used to. Probably partly due to the modifications in the pro version.

As you can see from this thread while there are arguments for and against both maps they are in no way as widely approved of as the stock pug maps (process, gully and snake) . In keeping with this, while not necessarily removed, they should be subjected to a similar level of scrutiny as other maps more on the fringe of the pool (sunshine, cardinal, reckoner etc.) and not simply included because they were last season and have been for a long time.

I think there was, actually.

if only new maps were tested for more than a week before they get added to the map pool (cardinal) people would be less turned off by the idea of rotating out classic maps for newer maps.

But badlands last is so ridiculously easy to hold. And its also super easy to spot your uber push isnt going to work so you just let your med run out of last with scout movement speed (great mechanic) so that you maintain heals to defend second (which is also stupidly easy to defend). The map isnt fun to play or watch

granary is good though and actually rewards decision making rather than 'can their pyro die within the first second of our uber?'

Interested in why you think that badlands brings balance to scout dominated meta; I agree with you for granary though

i think granary pro is fine but badlands is just so outdated by modern standards.

i definitely feel like there is potential for a better map pool, and some things i just dont get such as why we removed sunshine from the map pool in favour of cardinal or why we still don't play metalworks in europe.

also wasnt old logjam supposed to be decent as well.

Badlands is my favourite map in the pool, but I have to admit that the last is really easy to hold. Many of its' issues are compounded by problems with the game separate from the map itself (meds running at scout speed). It would be a shame to throw away the rest of the map because of last though because the rest is pretty good.

I love you Twiggy, literally what I've been saying for years

our map pool would be perfect if we made 1 change though:
product --> gpit

god bless

It's not a map that is particularly easy for scouts. It's not like process where this is infinite space on mid or even last to dance above soldiers. Quite chokey to get out of last and you can get spammed very easily on spire. Soldiers have resup to hold flank too.

Not like its really difficult for scouts but your impact is more limited.

reminder the people asking for gravelpit back never actually played it competitively
want to know what's fun? constant engineers and snipers + gimmick strategies

bring gpit back :)

played it in both HL and 6s ;p

seriously though wtf is wrong with badlands that makes it worse than most of the maps in the current map pool, other than people have played it a million times?

nice try, but most people who played gpit competitively and have played product very much prefer the earlier over the latter, and as Comanglia, I played it both in 6s and HL myself (2009 player btw)

At least Gpit promotes an actual strategy in order to win other than ''press w and hope for the best'' like product. In a game like TEAM Fortress 2 you have to be a very good TEAM to beat another in gpit, but we keep promoting dm over teams, that's why, among other things, our teams don't last for seasons and people cba to wear tags and team avatars like we used to.

Nobody used to scrim gpit outside the week it had to be played, but it happens the same with product really.

rofl any map that isn't scout haven is bad