This is just the monthly thread to remind everybody.
Crossbow is still dumb
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.
Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.
olbapWithout the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.
[quote=olbap]Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.[/quote]
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.
remove passive reload and/or reduce fall off damage pls ty
remove passive reload and/or reduce fall off damage pls ty
OwenAlso, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?
-50% to -66% current heal rate would be close to good imo.
[quote=Owen]
Also, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?[/quote]
-50% to -66% current heal rate would be close to good imo.
Also, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?[/quote]
-50% to -66% current heal rate would be close to good imo.
No one is accusing the crossbow of being broken. The wrangler isn't broken, as far as I know it has no real bugs and works as intended, but that doesn't make it not dumb.
No one is accusing the crossbow of being broken. The wrangler isn't broken, as far as I know it has no real bugs and works as intended, but that doesn't make it not dumb.
the real issue is the syringe guns suck horribly and need buffs
the real issue is the syringe guns suck horribly and need buffs
Daffodil-Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced
Saying it should not be banned is a difference of opinion.
Saying that its somehow balanced is just denial of fact.
[quote=Daffodil-]Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced[/quote]
Saying it should not be banned is a difference of opinion.
Saying that its somehow balanced is just denial of fact.
Saying it should not be banned is a difference of opinion.
Saying that its somehow balanced is just denial of fact.
I know it's annoying to be owning a guy and then he just gets arrowed, but every time items have been down in a scrim/pug recently and neither medic could use crossbows, things have just completely devolved
tf2 has just become so dependent on the crossbow especially on mid fights, I think it's way too late to get rid of it
I know it's annoying to be owning a guy and then he just gets arrowed, but every time items have been down in a scrim/pug recently and neither medic could use crossbows, things have just completely devolved
tf2 has just become so dependent on the crossbow especially on mid fights, I think it's way too late to get rid of it
tf2 has just become so dependent on the crossbow especially on mid fights, I think it's way too late to get rid of it
Daffodil-Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced
This is just wrong. Something that heals the same as CRIT HEALS point blank in a single second is not balanced. I don't know what you're smoking.
Even if the express heals got nerfed needles have been obsolete for so long nobody would really go back to it. They'd have to do exactly what they did to old Crossbow: buff it to an insane level so everyone uses that instead of the then-common needles.
[quote=Daffodil-]Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced[/quote]
This is just wrong. Something that heals the same as CRIT HEALS point blank in a single second is not balanced. I don't know what you're smoking.
Even if the express heals got nerfed needles have been obsolete for so long nobody would really go back to it. They'd have to do exactly what they did to old Crossbow: buff it to an insane level so everyone uses that instead of the then-common needles.
This is just wrong. Something that heals the same as CRIT HEALS point blank in a single second is not balanced. I don't know what you're smoking.
Even if the express heals got nerfed needles have been obsolete for so long nobody would really go back to it. They'd have to do exactly what they did to old Crossbow: buff it to an insane level so everyone uses that instead of the then-common needles.
any weapon that has to be run 100% of the time isn't necessarily broken, but if you can't run something else in favor of it then its unbalanced for sure.
OwenlucrativeolbapWithout the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.
Do you think that the skilled/fun mechanic of giving med a crossbow is worth this tradeoff, or was the skill inherent to knowing heal priorities at all times (which i imagine is lost to a degree with crossbow) was a better system? I didn't play pre x-bow so it'd be interesting to hear your opinion.
Also, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?
there is absolutely no denying that the addition of the crossbow has made the class more engaging and more approachable for a wider range of players and i think has resulted in more people willing to play the class, but I can't say I prefer the style of game we play nowadays based around crossbows. Its very un intuitive and yes it does slow the game down because you can't push off significant damage and allows players to play more carelessly with their hp and when they decide to fight.
it has altered the landscape of how this game is played by a massive margin (not as much as the gunboats have though). is it for the better? likely, but to deny that it doesn't slow the game down, allows for less intuitive play and that it is a balanced weapon is simply just not true. if it was brought in line with other medic primaries and allowed for actual trade-offs in any way it would make the game and the class better.
any weapon that has to be run 100% of the time isn't necessarily broken, but if you can't run something else in favor of it then its unbalanced for sure.
[quote=Owen][quote=lucrative][quote=olbap]Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.[/quote]
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.[/quote]
Do you think that the skilled/fun mechanic of giving med a crossbow is worth this tradeoff, or was the skill inherent to knowing heal priorities at all times (which i imagine is lost to a degree with crossbow) was a better system? I didn't play pre x-bow so it'd be interesting to hear your opinion.
Also, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?[/quote]
there is absolutely no denying that the addition of the crossbow has made the class more engaging and more approachable for a wider range of players and i think has resulted in more people willing to play the class, but I can't say I prefer the style of game we play nowadays based around crossbows. Its very un intuitive and [b]yes[/b] it does slow the game down because you can't push off significant damage and allows players to play more carelessly with their hp and when they decide to fight.
it has altered the landscape of how this game is played by a massive margin (not as much as the gunboats have though). is it for the better? likely, but to deny that it doesn't slow the game down, allows for less intuitive play and that it is a balanced weapon is simply just not true. if it was brought in line with other medic primaries and allowed for actual trade-offs in any way it would make the game and the class better.
[quote=Owen][quote=lucrative][quote=olbap]Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.[/quote]
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.[/quote]
Do you think that the skilled/fun mechanic of giving med a crossbow is worth this tradeoff, or was the skill inherent to knowing heal priorities at all times (which i imagine is lost to a degree with crossbow) was a better system? I didn't play pre x-bow so it'd be interesting to hear your opinion.
Also, aside from banning it, are there any changes to the bow that would make it more balanced?[/quote]
there is absolutely no denying that the addition of the crossbow has made the class more engaging and more approachable for a wider range of players and i think has resulted in more people willing to play the class, but I can't say I prefer the style of game we play nowadays based around crossbows. Its very un intuitive and [b]yes[/b] it does slow the game down because you can't push off significant damage and allows players to play more carelessly with their hp and when they decide to fight.
it has altered the landscape of how this game is played by a massive margin (not as much as the gunboats have though). is it for the better? likely, but to deny that it doesn't slow the game down, allows for less intuitive play and that it is a balanced weapon is simply just not true. if it was brought in line with other medic primaries and allowed for actual trade-offs in any way it would make the game and the class better.
lucrativeolbapWithout the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.
Luc I have played the game since 2012 don’t hit me with that “ur new lol.”
Anyways I just feel like the way we play the game now is superior to the way the game was played prior to the crossbow buffs. Definitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.
[quote=lucrative][quote=olbap]Without the crossbow, this game is unfun and deathly slow.[/quote]
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.[/quote]
Luc I have played the game since 2012 don’t hit me with that “ur new lol.”
Anyways I just feel like the way we play the game now is superior to the way the game was played prior to the crossbow buffs. Definitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.
always an interesting comment to come from players who barely played the game before crossbow or even at all beforehand. Played med for 10 years in this game and crossbows have always made the game slower because doing damage isn't as relevant to pushing as it used to be.[/quote]
Luc I have played the game since 2012 don’t hit me with that “ur new lol.”
Anyways I just feel like the way we play the game now is superior to the way the game was played prior to the crossbow buffs. Definitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.
you have played 2 seasons of esea ive been playing since before esea even exsisted.
you are new.
you have played 2 seasons of esea ive been playing since before esea even exsisted.
you are new.
you are new.
Daffodil-Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced
u have bad opinions on weapons in tf2
[quote=Daffodil-]Let me rephrase it then, the crossbow is balanced[/quote]
u have bad opinions on weapons in tf2
u have bad opinions on weapons in tf2
olbapDefinitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.
[quote=olbap]Definitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.[/quote]
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.
I've always seen these arguments about crossbow being good or bad. It's pretty even on both sides for the main arguments, which is that it's much harder to push off damage, as well as some guy just getting an arrow in a 1v1.
For pushing off damage, it goes both ways. Meaning the damage goes both ways. One team may have their med up, but can keep rolling points because their medic can arrow players to heal them faster to get into the fight. So this argument is irrelevant since crossbow opens up as many opportunities as it takes away in this area.
For getting an arrow in a 1v1, I can see how this is more annoying. The main counter points are all about how it's a team game. I guess medic sniping someone who is in their line of sight is no different to a sniper sniping someone in their line of sight.
In terms of what the crossbow offers though, is much more free flowing gameplay. Your medic doesn't need players constantly surrounding him to be useful during fights. It allows for people to be more aggressive and not just stalemate it out with spam on two sides of a point. It allows for much higher risk plays to occur as well.
Plus crossbow is fun to use. It fits medics style much better than needles. Low close damage, extra healing, rewards being far from the enemy.
Personally I think nerfing crossbow by 33% healing/dmg would be good. 50-100 healing, and 25-50 damage seems fine.
I think with the stickybomb nerf, crossbow being banned/removed/nerfed out of existence would make the game so stalematey. There would be so much less of this damage you talk about to push off of. Thinking the game would revert to how it was before when there are so many other changes that have been introduced would be very naive.
I've always seen these arguments about crossbow being good or bad. It's pretty even on both sides for the main arguments, which is that it's much harder to push off damage, as well as some guy just getting an arrow in a 1v1.
For pushing off damage, it goes both ways. Meaning the damage goes both ways. One team may have their med up, but can keep rolling points because their medic can arrow players to heal them faster to get into the fight. So this argument is irrelevant since crossbow opens up as many opportunities as it takes away in this area.
For getting an arrow in a 1v1, I can see how this is more annoying. The main counter points are all about how it's a team game. I guess medic sniping someone who is in their line of sight is no different to a sniper sniping someone in their line of sight.
In terms of what the crossbow offers though, is much more free flowing gameplay. Your medic doesn't need players constantly surrounding him to be useful during fights. It allows for people to be more aggressive and not just stalemate it out with spam on two sides of a point. It allows for much higher risk plays to occur as well.
Plus crossbow is fun to use. It fits medics style much better than needles. Low close damage, extra healing, rewards being far from the enemy.
Personally I think nerfing crossbow by 33% healing/dmg would be good. 50-100 healing, and 25-50 damage seems fine.
I think with the stickybomb nerf, crossbow being banned/removed/nerfed out of existence would make the game so stalematey. There would be so much less of this damage you talk about to push off of. Thinking the game would revert to how it was before when there are so many other changes that have been introduced would be very naive.
For pushing off damage, it goes both ways. Meaning the damage goes both ways. One team may have their med up, but can keep rolling points because their medic can arrow players to heal them faster to get into the fight. So this argument is irrelevant since crossbow opens up as many opportunities as it takes away in this area.
For getting an arrow in a 1v1, I can see how this is more annoying. The main counter points are all about how it's a team game. I guess medic sniping someone who is in their line of sight is no different to a sniper sniping someone in their line of sight.
In terms of what the crossbow offers though, is much more free flowing gameplay. Your medic doesn't need players constantly surrounding him to be useful during fights. It allows for people to be more aggressive and not just stalemate it out with spam on two sides of a point. It allows for much higher risk plays to occur as well.
Plus crossbow is fun to use. It fits medics style much better than needles. Low close damage, extra healing, rewards being far from the enemy.
Personally I think nerfing crossbow by 33% healing/dmg would be good. 50-100 healing, and 25-50 damage seems fine.
I think with the stickybomb nerf, crossbow being banned/removed/nerfed out of existence would make the game so stalematey. There would be so much less of this damage you talk about to push off of. Thinking the game would revert to how it was before when there are so many other changes that have been introduced would be very naive.
twiikuuolbapDefinitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.
I think that scout leashing makes medic infinently easier than the crossbow does personally and wish it was talked about as a bigger problem than the corossbow is. I also Remeber cycling heals and such and a roamer not getting much love. But don’t you think the crossbow makes it more entertaining when you can now arow a solly really quick so he can jump back in and keep Fighting?
[quote=twiikuu][quote=olbap]Definitely more demanding and entertaining as a medic player.[/quote]
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.[/quote]
I think that scout leashing makes medic infinently easier than the crossbow does personally and wish it was talked about as a bigger problem than the corossbow is. I also Remeber cycling heals and such and a roamer not getting much love. But don’t you think the crossbow makes it more entertaining when you can now arow a solly really quick so he can jump back in and keep Fighting?
Entertaining, probably, but demanding I have to completely disagree. Hitting bolts is much easier than managing your heal targets, your position, the communication with your team. Crossbow and scout leashing makes Medic so incredibly easier.
E: It's a lot easier on certain classes too, I clearly remember the concept of "cycling heals" between scouts to not overburden the medic, or that the roamer would almost never catch the beam in certain situations.[/quote]
I think that scout leashing makes medic infinently easier than the crossbow does personally and wish it was talked about as a bigger problem than the corossbow is. I also Remeber cycling heals and such and a roamer not getting much love. But don’t you think the crossbow makes it more entertaining when you can now arow a solly really quick so he can jump back in and keep Fighting?
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