For legal reasons I have decided to take down my post and all following posts.
My Story With Dashner: A Thread
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
Welcome to page 7 friends!
At no point should you let the victim's name be mentioned in public when they do not consent to it because you are further damaging their already fragile mental state as a victim of abuse whether it's sexual or verbal abuse.
I would like to say that if you are a bystander in these LANs where you can visibly see abuse happening and you let it slide, you are enabling it by extension of keeping silence.
As a victim of abuse throughout multiple occasions in my life I can understand the shame and fear that a victim would feel regarding their abuse and why they wouldn't want to bring it to people's knowledge, especially when they fear for losing things that they value and love like their ability to participate in their favourite community. Had others known of abuse that I experienced and approached me about it when it happened I would be taken aback but I would still want the support of my friends and possibly taking action against my abusers.
This goes back to both personal societal events throughout global history where people have kept quiet because they feared repercussions, it never ends well and it's only solved with the support of your surrounding community showing awareness and care.
The best course of action is to approach the victims and let them know that they are not alone, not wrong for feeling abused and that they are in-fact in the right for feeling fear for their safety.
When you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community know that [x] person is abusive to some members you do not want to name in order to keep their safety, and discuss the actions that should be taken.
These matters can be handled like they are handled now as bringing them to light long after the events of abuse took place or they could be handled as they are happening and honestly that would be ideal.
Welcome to page 7 friends!
At no point should you let the victim's name be mentioned in public when they do not consent to it because you are further damaging their already fragile mental state as a victim of abuse whether it's sexual or verbal abuse.
I would like to say that if you are a bystander in these LANs where you can visibly see abuse happening and you let it slide, you are enabling it by extension of keeping silence.
As a victim of abuse throughout multiple occasions in my life I can understand the shame and fear that a victim would feel regarding their abuse and why they wouldn't want to bring it to people's knowledge, especially when they fear for losing things that they value and love like their ability to participate in their favourite community. Had others known of abuse that I experienced and approached me about it when it happened I would be taken aback but I would still want the support of my friends and possibly taking action against my abusers.
This goes back to both personal societal events throughout global history where people have kept quiet because they feared repercussions, it never ends well and it's only solved with the support of your surrounding community showing awareness and care.
The best course of action is to approach the victims and let them know that they are not alone, not wrong for feeling abused and that they are in-fact in the right for feeling fear for their safety.
When you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community [b]know[/b] that [i][x][/i] person is abusive to some members you do not want to name in order to keep their safety, and discuss the actions that should be taken.
These matters can be handled like they are handled now as bringing them to light long after the events of abuse took place or they could be handled as they are happening and honestly that would be ideal.
At no point should you let the victim's name be mentioned in public when they do not consent to it because you are further damaging their already fragile mental state as a victim of abuse whether it's sexual or verbal abuse.
I would like to say that if you are a bystander in these LANs where you can visibly see abuse happening and you let it slide, you are enabling it by extension of keeping silence.
As a victim of abuse throughout multiple occasions in my life I can understand the shame and fear that a victim would feel regarding their abuse and why they wouldn't want to bring it to people's knowledge, especially when they fear for losing things that they value and love like their ability to participate in their favourite community. Had others known of abuse that I experienced and approached me about it when it happened I would be taken aback but I would still want the support of my friends and possibly taking action against my abusers.
This goes back to both personal societal events throughout global history where people have kept quiet because they feared repercussions, it never ends well and it's only solved with the support of your surrounding community showing awareness and care.
The best course of action is to approach the victims and let them know that they are not alone, not wrong for feeling abused and that they are in-fact in the right for feeling fear for their safety.
When you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community [b]know[/b] that [i][x][/i] person is abusive to some members you do not want to name in order to keep their safety, and discuss the actions that should be taken.
These matters can be handled like they are handled now as bringing them to light long after the events of abuse took place or they could be handled as they are happening and honestly that would be ideal.
They aren't speaking because it is often times scary to. Like it was stated multiple times in this thread. I wrote it simply for you because it appears you have trouble comprehending the words on your screen, or perhaps youre just typing for the sake of typing
It is not as simple as just talking about it.
Seriously fuxx, either learn how to read or dismantle your keyboard for scrap metal
Edit for clarity: this is directed at fuxx
They aren't speaking because it is often times scary to. Like it was stated multiple times in this thread. I wrote it simply for you because it appears you have trouble comprehending the words on your screen, or perhaps youre just typing for the sake of typing
It is not as simple as just talking about it.
Seriously fuxx, either learn how to read or dismantle your keyboard for scrap metal
Edit for clarity: this is directed at fuxx
It is not as simple as just talking about it.
Seriously fuxx, either learn how to read or dismantle your keyboard for scrap metal
Edit for clarity: this is directed at fuxx
Nothing is as simple as just talking about it, but you owe it to your friends to keep them safe, without having to bring out anything to the public.
I wrote it in one sentence because apparently you missed my point.
Nothing is as simple as just talking about it, but you owe it to your friends to keep them safe, without having to bring out anything to the public.
I wrote it in one sentence because apparently you missed my point.
I wrote it in one sentence because apparently you missed my point.
sopsWhen you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community know that [x] person is abusive
sopswithout having to bring out anything to the public.
Sorry, what was your point?
[quote=sops]When you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community [b]know[/b] that [i][x][/i] person is abusive[/quote]
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
Sorry, what was your point?
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
Sorry, what was your point?
FuxxThat's precisely why we need to respect and support anyone who comes out to their fullest extent and give a good old asskicking to anyone who doesn't.
Fuxxprevious victims included, is partially responsible for any abuses that follow.
FuxxI am not blaming any victim, nor was it ever my intention.
I'm not sure if this is imprecise of use of language but it certainly reads as if you are blaming victims.
FuxxDo you agree with me on this?
I think your overall argument is reductive and removes humanity from the equation, there are numerous and valid reasons that a victim would not want to reveal the name of their attacker/abuser including, but not limited to- shame, fear of consequences, lack of confidence and a lack of information (due to intoxication). Treating these partial disclosures as a problem to be solved isn't what the community needs; All disclosures should be encouraged and supported.
[quote=Fuxx]That's precisely why we need to respect and support anyone who comes out to their fullest extent and give a good old asskicking to anyone who doesn't.[/quote]
[quote=Fuxx]previous victims included, is partially responsible for any abuses that follow.[/quote]
[quote=Fuxx]I am not blaming any victim, nor was it ever my intention.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is imprecise of use of language but it certainly reads as if you are blaming victims.
[quote=Fuxx]Do you agree with me on this?[/quote]
I think your overall argument is reductive and removes humanity from the equation, there are numerous and valid reasons that a victim would not want to reveal the name of their attacker/abuser including, but not limited to- shame, fear of consequences, lack of confidence and a lack of information (due to intoxication). Treating these partial disclosures as a problem to be solved isn't what the community needs; All disclosures should be encouraged and supported.
[quote=Fuxx]previous victims included, is partially responsible for any abuses that follow.[/quote]
[quote=Fuxx]I am not blaming any victim, nor was it ever my intention.[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is imprecise of use of language but it certainly reads as if you are blaming victims.
[quote=Fuxx]Do you agree with me on this?[/quote]
I think your overall argument is reductive and removes humanity from the equation, there are numerous and valid reasons that a victim would not want to reveal the name of their attacker/abuser including, but not limited to- shame, fear of consequences, lack of confidence and a lack of information (due to intoxication). Treating these partial disclosures as a problem to be solved isn't what the community needs; All disclosures should be encouraged and supported.
LightbringersopsWhen you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community know that [x] person is abusivesopswithout having to bring out anything to the public.
Sorry, what was your point?
"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"
[quote=Lightbringer][quote=sops]When you see abuse going on around you, you let your fellow members of the community [b]know[/b] that [i][x][/i] person is abusive[/quote]
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
Sorry, what was your point?[/quote]
"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
Sorry, what was your point?[/quote]
"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"
sops"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"
sopswithout having to bring out anything to the public.
[quote=sops]"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"[/quote]
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
[quote=sops]without having to bring out anything to the public.[/quote]
FuxxIdeally by the police, through evidence, through the instruments of a nation's Law
Alright look I was going to save this for my expansion DLC of "how dashner fucked me up and why I'm repeating myself on why people like me and our friends let him get away with these atrocities when we shouldn't have" and I'm probably literally repeating what people have already said that you know too but you haven't listened to, but here's The Classic Uberchain Nerd Essay™ of what happened back when (and why) Pregugate 2018 (and disheartened, well-meaning upset Czech lads who want to beat the shit out of Dashner, nonces, and predators) got met with the response it did and I feel like this is important for others to hear too even if it's disheartening
GetawhaleLast time, after the uberchain thread, he came to me in PM saying he was going to be pursuing legal action against her
So, this is not the first time I am hearing about this. Somebody else approached me around the same time telling me "Dashner messaged me saying this wasn't true, he said he was going to reach out to a lawyer about this, and then at some point he deleted all his messages to me about the matter".
I did not have money during that time to be sued with a libel and defamation lawsuit, which in Canada last time I checked, is easier to sue for than in the United States. This man raped me, sexually coerced me, manipulated and gaslit me, and he still had the audacity to see if he could push legal action against me for fucking libel, which is why I basically never dropped his name publicly and tried to resort to private resolution. Is he likely to win? I have no clue (answer is probably no, maybe it's a stronger case now that I have name-dropped him even though what I'm saying is true), but I was not ready to deal with that financially or mentally. He also knows where I live and some of the names of my family members, so in the worst case situation, I wondered if he might blackmail me (he has blackmailed Console in the esports industry for Christ's sake, WHILE DATING HIM) or my family.
I've got logs of him, but since they are written logs and not recorded on audio (where sometimes in various places, there are laws that make recordings invalid due to consent), there's a good chance it can be met with the "lol I didn't type that somebody else like my mom or my cat in the house did" defense. Additionally, how he raped me might not even be considered rape in his jurisdiction. I was 100% on board for Console to push his case legally and brush up on my own legalese and hit up a local crisis center to help me out on it because maybe by 2019 his province's laws would be clearer on what I can and can't do, but after Console confirmed this:
Console-I have reached out to the police (my cousin is a state trooper who has worked the past 20 years solely on domestic abuse cases) and unfortunately because it is a he said/he said and it is across country borders there's not much that can be done
I basically was back to square one of realizing the statistical 6% will probably work against me. Console has an answer for the people who went BU-BUT POLIS??? PROPER AUTHORITIES??? WRONG WAY OF DOING THIS!!! to me. It's not that fucking simple. I know people want it to be because that's how it should work, but it isn't.
Then, there was Console himself.
When Console, still very much in love with Dashner, told me at i65 he thought Dashner was getting better, and apologized on behalf of Dashner: I realized there was nothing I could tell him that wouldn't make him defensive and think I was in the wrong. Dashner still had him. I could tell because I saw myself when I was dating Alex: the troubled and struggling alcoholic who just wanted to make a difference, that I constantly had to apologize for and said I had faith in him that he would be able to become a better person. Not the man who was a monster.
Could I have prevented it with an earlier warning - with how much I've heard Dashner apparently convincingly lie about me and other people? Regardless of if I answer yes or no to this: he fooled so many of our mutual friends, my past partners, my current partners, and this community. He fooled me. Tagg warned me, family warned me, friends warned me. And I didn't listen.
That's the worst part: love for your lover and/or friend. It blinds you to reason and logic, and sometimes it takes ages for what other people, even your closest friends or family, warn you about to make you realize that you've been wrong about the person you're involved with all along. And then, the worst part is when people decide to tell you "I told you so" to your face at your lowest point. As if we didn't feel stupid or like it was our fault already. And the cycle begins.
You probably want the same thing we all do: for victims to be listened to and to be encouraged to speak up. Me and Console agreed that we needed to do so after realizing he hasn't changed since he did it to me, and there will probably be others (and there has been). What you fail to realize (and people have already told you this and said this in this very thread) is that "we need to find a good solution that works" "support and believe the victims" is so insulting and stirs a reaction from people is because, after everybody has stated specific examples of WHY this never works out all the time, it oversimplifies the extent of how complicated, psychologically and systematically difficult it is to listen to victims; due to victim-blaming, doubt of a victim's account, or what you're doing: prioritizing the abuser rather than helping the abuser's current victims first.
You might think this isn't what you're doing and you probably didn't intend for it to come off that way, because of course just like everybody else, you want this monster stopped. But in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars. We are afraid of people like you.
Also idk if you were being serious about this but:
Fuxxwe need to respect and support anyone who comes out to their fullest extent and give a good old asskicking to anyone who doesn't
This has a higher chance to absolutely get you sued and even jailed even if you have a very good reason to do it. This is why sometimes robbers who get the shit beaten out of them for robbing dudes can sue you for assault.
[quote=Fuxx]Ideally by the police, through evidence, through the instruments of a nation's Law[/quote]
Alright look I was going to save this for my expansion DLC of "how dashner fucked me up and why I'm repeating myself on why people like me and our friends let him get away with these atrocities when we shouldn't have" and I'm probably literally repeating what people have already said that you know too but you haven't listened to, but here's The Classic Uberchain Nerd Essay™ of what happened back when (and why) Pregugate 2018 (and disheartened, well-meaning upset Czech lads who want to beat the shit out of Dashner, nonces, and predators) got met with the response it did and I feel like this is important for others to hear too even if it's disheartening
[quote=Getawhale]Last time, after the uberchain thread, he came to me in PM saying he was going to be [b]pursuing legal action against her[/b][/quote]
So, this is not the first time I am hearing about this. Somebody else approached me around the same time telling me "Dashner messaged me saying this wasn't true, he said he was going to reach out to a lawyer about this, and then at some point he deleted all his messages to me about the matter".
I did not have money during that time to be sued with a libel and defamation lawsuit, which in Canada last time I checked, is easier to sue for than in the United States. This man raped me, sexually coerced me, manipulated and gaslit me, and he still had the audacity to see if he could push legal action against me for fucking libel, which is why I basically never dropped his name publicly and tried to resort to private resolution. Is he likely to win? I have no clue (answer is probably no, maybe it's a stronger case now that I have name-dropped him even though what I'm saying is true), but I was not ready to deal with that financially or mentally. He also knows where I live and some of the names of my family members, so in the worst case situation, I wondered if he might blackmail me (he has blackmailed Console in the esports industry for Christ's sake, WHILE DATING HIM) or my family.
I've got logs of him, but since they are written logs and not recorded on audio (where sometimes in various places, there are laws that make recordings invalid due to consent), there's a good chance it can be met with the "lol I didn't type that somebody else like my mom or my cat in the house did" defense. Additionally, how he raped me might not even be considered rape in his jurisdiction. I was 100% on board for Console to push his case legally and brush up on my own legalese and hit up a local crisis center to help me out on it because maybe by 2019 his province's laws would be clearer on what I can and can't do, but after Console confirmed this:
[quote=Console-]I have reached out to the police (my cousin is a state trooper who has worked the past 20 years solely on domestic abuse cases) and unfortunately because it is a he said/he said and it is across country borders there's not much that can be done[/quote]
I basically was back to square one of realizing the statistical 6% will probably work against me. Console has an answer for the people who went BU-BUT POLIS??? PROPER AUTHORITIES??? WRONG WAY OF DOING THIS!!! to me. It's not that fucking simple. I know people want it to be because that's how it should work, but it isn't.
Then, there [i]was[/i] Console himself.
When Console, still very much in love with Dashner, told me at i65 he thought Dashner was getting better, and apologized on behalf of Dashner: I realized there was nothing I could tell him that wouldn't make him defensive and think I was in the wrong. Dashner still had him. I could tell because I saw myself when I was dating Alex: the troubled and struggling alcoholic who just wanted to make a difference, that I constantly had to apologize for and said I had faith in him that he would be able to become a better person. Not the man who was a monster.
Could I have prevented it with an earlier warning - with how much I've heard Dashner apparently convincingly lie about me and other people? Regardless of if I answer yes or no to this: he fooled so many of our mutual friends, my past partners, my current partners, and this community. He fooled [i]me.[/i] Tagg warned me, family warned me, friends warned me. And I didn't listen.
That's the worst part: love for your lover and/or friend. It blinds you to reason and logic, and sometimes it takes ages for what other people, even your closest friends or family, warn you about to make you realize that you've been wrong about the person you're involved with all along. And then, the worst part is when people decide to tell you "I told you so" to your face at your lowest point. As if we didn't feel stupid or like it was our fault already. And the cycle begins.
You probably want the same thing we all do: for victims to be listened to and to be encouraged to speak up. Me and Console agreed that we needed to do so after realizing he hasn't changed since he did it to me, and there will probably be others (and there has been). What you fail to realize (and people have already told you this and said this in this very thread) is that "we need to find a good solution that works" "support and believe the victims" is so insulting and stirs a reaction from people is because, after everybody has stated specific examples of WHY this never works out all the time, it oversimplifies the extent of how complicated, psychologically and systematically difficult it is to listen to victims; due to victim-blaming, doubt of a victim's account, or what you're doing: prioritizing the abuser rather than helping the abuser's current victims first.
You might think this isn't what you're doing and you probably didn't intend for it to come off that way, because of course just like everybody else, you want this monster stopped. But in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars. We are afraid of people like [i]you[/i].
Also idk if you were being serious about this but:
[quote=Fuxx]we need to respect and support anyone who comes out to their fullest extent and give a good old asskicking to anyone who doesn't[/quote]
This has a higher chance to absolutely get you sued and even jailed even if you have a very good reason to do it. This is why sometimes robbers who get the shit beaten out of them for robbing dudes can sue you for assault.
Alright look I was going to save this for my expansion DLC of "how dashner fucked me up and why I'm repeating myself on why people like me and our friends let him get away with these atrocities when we shouldn't have" and I'm probably literally repeating what people have already said that you know too but you haven't listened to, but here's The Classic Uberchain Nerd Essay™ of what happened back when (and why) Pregugate 2018 (and disheartened, well-meaning upset Czech lads who want to beat the shit out of Dashner, nonces, and predators) got met with the response it did and I feel like this is important for others to hear too even if it's disheartening
[quote=Getawhale]Last time, after the uberchain thread, he came to me in PM saying he was going to be [b]pursuing legal action against her[/b][/quote]
So, this is not the first time I am hearing about this. Somebody else approached me around the same time telling me "Dashner messaged me saying this wasn't true, he said he was going to reach out to a lawyer about this, and then at some point he deleted all his messages to me about the matter".
I did not have money during that time to be sued with a libel and defamation lawsuit, which in Canada last time I checked, is easier to sue for than in the United States. This man raped me, sexually coerced me, manipulated and gaslit me, and he still had the audacity to see if he could push legal action against me for fucking libel, which is why I basically never dropped his name publicly and tried to resort to private resolution. Is he likely to win? I have no clue (answer is probably no, maybe it's a stronger case now that I have name-dropped him even though what I'm saying is true), but I was not ready to deal with that financially or mentally. He also knows where I live and some of the names of my family members, so in the worst case situation, I wondered if he might blackmail me (he has blackmailed Console in the esports industry for Christ's sake, WHILE DATING HIM) or my family.
I've got logs of him, but since they are written logs and not recorded on audio (where sometimes in various places, there are laws that make recordings invalid due to consent), there's a good chance it can be met with the "lol I didn't type that somebody else like my mom or my cat in the house did" defense. Additionally, how he raped me might not even be considered rape in his jurisdiction. I was 100% on board for Console to push his case legally and brush up on my own legalese and hit up a local crisis center to help me out on it because maybe by 2019 his province's laws would be clearer on what I can and can't do, but after Console confirmed this:
[quote=Console-]I have reached out to the police (my cousin is a state trooper who has worked the past 20 years solely on domestic abuse cases) and unfortunately because it is a he said/he said and it is across country borders there's not much that can be done[/quote]
I basically was back to square one of realizing the statistical 6% will probably work against me. Console has an answer for the people who went BU-BUT POLIS??? PROPER AUTHORITIES??? WRONG WAY OF DOING THIS!!! to me. It's not that fucking simple. I know people want it to be because that's how it should work, but it isn't.
Then, there [i]was[/i] Console himself.
When Console, still very much in love with Dashner, told me at i65 he thought Dashner was getting better, and apologized on behalf of Dashner: I realized there was nothing I could tell him that wouldn't make him defensive and think I was in the wrong. Dashner still had him. I could tell because I saw myself when I was dating Alex: the troubled and struggling alcoholic who just wanted to make a difference, that I constantly had to apologize for and said I had faith in him that he would be able to become a better person. Not the man who was a monster.
Could I have prevented it with an earlier warning - with how much I've heard Dashner apparently convincingly lie about me and other people? Regardless of if I answer yes or no to this: he fooled so many of our mutual friends, my past partners, my current partners, and this community. He fooled [i]me.[/i] Tagg warned me, family warned me, friends warned me. And I didn't listen.
That's the worst part: love for your lover and/or friend. It blinds you to reason and logic, and sometimes it takes ages for what other people, even your closest friends or family, warn you about to make you realize that you've been wrong about the person you're involved with all along. And then, the worst part is when people decide to tell you "I told you so" to your face at your lowest point. As if we didn't feel stupid or like it was our fault already. And the cycle begins.
You probably want the same thing we all do: for victims to be listened to and to be encouraged to speak up. Me and Console agreed that we needed to do so after realizing he hasn't changed since he did it to me, and there will probably be others (and there has been). What you fail to realize (and people have already told you this and said this in this very thread) is that "we need to find a good solution that works" "support and believe the victims" is so insulting and stirs a reaction from people is because, after everybody has stated specific examples of WHY this never works out all the time, it oversimplifies the extent of how complicated, psychologically and systematically difficult it is to listen to victims; due to victim-blaming, doubt of a victim's account, or what you're doing: prioritizing the abuser rather than helping the abuser's current victims first.
You might think this isn't what you're doing and you probably didn't intend for it to come off that way, because of course just like everybody else, you want this monster stopped. But in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars. We are afraid of people like [i]you[/i].
Also idk if you were being serious about this but:
[quote=Fuxx]we need to respect and support anyone who comes out to their fullest extent and give a good old asskicking to anyone who doesn't[/quote]
This has a higher chance to absolutely get you sued and even jailed even if you have a very good reason to do it. This is why sometimes robbers who get the shit beaten out of them for robbing dudes can sue you for assault.
taggReading about these things can make it seem like this behavior is easily recognizable and easy to not fall for. I assure you this is not the case in a real life situation.
I normally don't post in threads like these because I am more of a lurker than a participating member of this community, but I felt compelled to reply to this because there is a crucial lesson to be learnt from what you said. I wish all young adults would get this drilled into their skulls by their parents and teachers: it is not difficult to recognise manipulative or abusive behaviour, but it is incredibly difficult to force your brain to accept and act on what it's recognising instead of denying it. You don't want to stand out from the group, you don't want to create interpersonal tension, you don't want to admit that someone you have to interact with might be dangerous, you are afraid of being wrong and hurting someone's reputation, etcetera. And the worst part is that you can substitute "you" with "your friends" in that sentence, which means that you are all putting pressure on each other to deny what your brains are telling you. The alcohol that flows freely at gaming events - and let's not try to pretend like minors don't get drunk with the help of (young) adults at these events - isn't helping that already fragile ability to accept one's instincts. There is nothing wrong with being a bit more reserved than those around you, you don't have to feel like you're the social villain for using your brain and not just going along with the pack.
[quote=tagg]Reading about these things can make it seem like this behavior is easily recognizable and easy to not fall for. I assure you this is not the case in a real life situation.[/quote]
I normally don't post in threads like these because I am more of a lurker than a participating member of this community, but I felt compelled to reply to this because there is a crucial lesson to be learnt from what you said. I wish all young adults would get this drilled into their skulls by their parents and teachers: [b]it is not difficult to recognise manipulative or abusive behaviour, [i]but it is incredibly difficult to force your brain to accept and act on what it's recognising instead of denying it[/i][/b]. You don't want to stand out from the group, you don't want to create interpersonal tension, you don't want to admit that someone you have to interact with might be dangerous, you are afraid of being wrong and hurting someone's reputation, etcetera. And the worst part is that you can substitute "you" with "your friends" in that sentence, which means that you are all putting pressure on each other to deny what your brains are telling you. The alcohol that flows freely at gaming events - and let's not try to pretend like minors don't get drunk with the help of (young) adults at these events - isn't helping that already fragile ability to accept one's instincts. There is nothing wrong with being a bit more reserved than those around you, you don't have to feel like you're the social villain for using your brain and not just going along with the pack.
I normally don't post in threads like these because I am more of a lurker than a participating member of this community, but I felt compelled to reply to this because there is a crucial lesson to be learnt from what you said. I wish all young adults would get this drilled into their skulls by their parents and teachers: [b]it is not difficult to recognise manipulative or abusive behaviour, [i]but it is incredibly difficult to force your brain to accept and act on what it's recognising instead of denying it[/i][/b]. You don't want to stand out from the group, you don't want to create interpersonal tension, you don't want to admit that someone you have to interact with might be dangerous, you are afraid of being wrong and hurting someone's reputation, etcetera. And the worst part is that you can substitute "you" with "your friends" in that sentence, which means that you are all putting pressure on each other to deny what your brains are telling you. The alcohol that flows freely at gaming events - and let's not try to pretend like minors don't get drunk with the help of (young) adults at these events - isn't helping that already fragile ability to accept one's instincts. There is nothing wrong with being a bit more reserved than those around you, you don't have to feel like you're the social villain for using your brain and not just going along with the pack.
Also I was also saving this for the expansion DLC/not to get booted from the TFTV Slack but fuck it.
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.
sops"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"
https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png
https://i.imgur.com/5zwEDmz.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZgX7U6Q.png
https://i.imgur.com/gRxIHcr.png
https://i.imgur.com/MSiUtQP.png
https://i.imgur.com/OIK6GtV.png
I ended up threatening to leave him, he apologized and said he was sorry, and then I apologized to him for being a terrible person to him, overreacting to him changing the stream key, and we forgave and forgot.
I wish I hadn't. I wish I had done it there and then. I'm sorry I backed out.
At this point, Overwatch had been picking up TF2 players and I was convinced TF2 wasn't really worth staying in because he said we couldn't stay here, but I didn't want a stream compromised because of a grudge. This is probably what he cites when he tells our friends that I threatened and tried to smear him and kill his career. So, I'll show that side of me to you then, if it means showing you this side of him.
Also I was also saving this for the expansion DLC/not to get booted from the TFTV Slack but fuck it.
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.
[quote=sops]"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/5zwEDmz.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/ZgX7U6Q.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/gRxIHcr.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/MSiUtQP.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/OIK6GtV.png[/img]I ended up threatening to leave him, he apologized and said he was sorry, and then I apologized to him for being a terrible person to him, overreacting to him changing the stream key, and we forgave and forgot.
I wish I hadn't. I wish I had done it there and then. I'm sorry I backed out.
At this point, Overwatch had been picking up TF2 players and I was convinced TF2 wasn't really worth staying in because he said we couldn't stay here, but I didn't want a stream compromised because of a grudge. This is probably what he cites when he tells our friends that I threatened and tried to smear him and kill his career. So, I'll show that side of me to you then, if it means showing you this side of him.
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.
[quote=sops]"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/5zwEDmz.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/ZgX7U6Q.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/gRxIHcr.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/MSiUtQP.png[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/OIK6GtV.png[/img]I ended up threatening to leave him, he apologized and said he was sorry, and then I apologized to him for being a terrible person to him, overreacting to him changing the stream key, and we forgave and forgot.
I wish I hadn't. I wish I had done it there and then. I'm sorry I backed out.
At this point, Overwatch had been picking up TF2 players and I was convinced TF2 wasn't really worth staying in because he said we couldn't stay here, but I didn't want a stream compromised because of a grudge. This is probably what he cites when he tells our friends that I threatened and tried to smear him and kill his career. So, I'll show that side of me to you then, if it means showing you this side of him.
uberchainAlso I was also saving this for the expansion DLC/not to get booted from the TFTV Slack but fuck it.
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.sops"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png
aight fuck this guy
[quote=uberchain]Also I was also saving this for the expansion DLC/not to get booted from the TFTV Slack but fuck it.
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.
[quote=sops]"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png[/img][/quote]
aight fuck this guy
DreamHack Winter 2016: Battle of the North, hosted by Essentials.TF, streamed on TFTV, post-i58. Still dating.
[quote=sops]"Guy's I've seen dashner being a total prick and abusive towards members of the staff, this isn't right, anybody else noticed that? What can we do?"[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GpZHnDg.png[/img][/quote]
aight fuck this guy
My man needs to drive down to a psychiatric hospital and get an evaluation
My man needs to drive down to a psychiatric hospital and get an evaluation
I didn't want to say anything cause what Console and uberchain had said was much worse already, but I wanted to put out there Alex had gone as far as the eye can see to make sure I never touch an event or get an opportunity.
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.
edit: someone also sent me this fantabulous one
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226217651012239360/643322285641433108/20191110_213218.jpg
I didn't want to say anything cause what Console and uberchain had said was much worse already, but I wanted to put out there Alex had gone as far as the eye can see to make sure I never touch an event or get an opportunity.
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png[/img]
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png[/img]
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png[/img]
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.
edit: someone also sent me this fantabulous one
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226217651012239360/643322285641433108/20191110_213218.jpg[/img]
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png[/img]
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png[/img]
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png[/img]
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.
edit: someone also sent me this fantabulous one
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226217651012239360/643322285641433108/20191110_213218.jpg[/img]
So Dashner's an insensitive, maniacal, depraved sociopath, who's method of survival-ism ended up hurting others in ways that are difficult to talk about. Good on you Console for drawing the line and speaking up with confidence. I've no words for the entities that withheld the information on his detestable behavior that even allowed other people to approach him after seeing him for what he truly is.
So Dashner's an insensitive, maniacal, depraved sociopath, who's method of survival-ism ended up hurting others in ways that are difficult to talk about. Good on you Console for drawing the line and speaking up with confidence. I've no words for the entities that withheld the information on his detestable behavior that even allowed other people to approach him after seeing him for what he truly is.
Show Content
MitchI didn't want to say anything as these stories are way above what I've dealt with, but Alex has gone as far as the eye can see to make sure I never touch an event or get an opportunity.
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.
https://www.teamfortress.tv/52342/what-league-are-yall-gonna-play-in#11
Yeah as a casual tf2 player whose first impression of dashner was this thread I was really repulsed, but the comments from trolls afterwards made me forget the whole incident even though they were spot on.
Kind of crazy seeing people calling dashner out for rape there and getting downfragged
[spoiler][quote=Mitch]I didn't want to say anything as these stories are way above what I've dealt with, but Alex has gone as far as the eye can see to make sure I never touch an event or get an opportunity.
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png[/img]
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png[/img]
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png[/img]
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.[/quote]
[/spoiler]
https://www.teamfortress.tv/52342/what-league-are-yall-gonna-play-in#11
Yeah as a casual tf2 player whose first impression of dashner was this thread I was really repulsed, but the comments from trolls afterwards made me forget the whole incident even though they were spot on.
Kind of crazy seeing people calling dashner out for rape there and getting downfragged
I can't lie, I've said some pretty mean things to people that have burnt bridges in the past, however I've grown since those years and am trying to do better for the community.
Remember when I tried to get ESL involved with TF2? Apparently I'm a pathological liar.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/fn5adxv.png[/img]
He then contacted me early on in the BTS organizing.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/biE7SGu.png[/img]
He wanted to take my WebHud code so it could be used for BTS, never happened.
And then he returned to his, unforgiving self.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LwjR0MH.png[/img]
As for Console, I'm profusely sorry. You told me long ago about this and I didn't do anything about it. I wish I helped you but didn't know what to do.[/quote]
[/spoiler]
https://www.teamfortress.tv/52342/what-league-are-yall-gonna-play-in#11
Yeah as a casual tf2 player whose first impression of dashner was this thread I was really repulsed, but the comments from trolls afterwards made me forget the whole incident even though they were spot on.
Kind of crazy seeing people calling dashner out for rape there and getting downfragged
Fuxxprevious victims included, is partially responsible for any abuses that follow.
You argument comes from an idea you havent fully thought out. Let me start by saying I understand what youre trying to say. But its not correct and definitely not fair and disrespectful to the victim. The rapist does NOT get to place a responsibility on their victim to inform someone. That is, it is not a responsibility of someone whos been raped to prevent others from being assaulted. That responsbility to not rape someone lies solely on the person who did the rape - i.e. your argument is removing the responsibility of a rapists decisions. "His previous victim didn't inform someone so it's partially their fault" rather than "the rapists raped someone, they're a fucked up person" - which is what the correct response is. You see how the former is disgusting and removes responsibility from the rapist?
The one and ONLY responsibility of the victim is to take care of themselves and whats happened to them, however they deem fit. If they choose not to inform someone, then it is not acccustomed to them allowing someone else to be raped, knowingly or unknowingly.
Furthermore, this is someone who HAS been harmed, and you're arguing that this is irrelevant and they should ignore what's happened to prevent the POSSIBILITY not CERTAINTY that the abuse will assault someone else.
I will bet on it now that if you told someone who has been sexually abused that if they didn't inform someone of what's happened someone else will DEFINITELY be sexually assaulted, not a maybe, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
[quote=Fuxx]previous victims included, is partially responsible for any abuses that follow.[/quote]
You argument comes from an idea you havent fully thought out. Let me start by saying I understand what youre trying to say. But its not correct and definitely not fair and disrespectful to the victim. The rapist does NOT get to place a responsibility on their victim to inform someone. That is, it is not a responsibility of someone whos been raped to prevent others from being assaulted. That responsbility to not rape someone lies solely on the person who did the rape - i.e. your argument is removing the responsibility of a rapists decisions. "His previous victim didn't inform someone so it's partially their fault" rather than "the rapists raped someone, they're a fucked up person" - which is what the correct response is. You see how the former is disgusting and removes responsibility from the rapist?
The one and ONLY responsibility of the victim is to take care of themselves and whats happened to them, however they deem fit. If they choose not to inform someone, then it is not acccustomed to them allowing someone else to be raped, knowingly or unknowingly.
Furthermore, this is someone who HAS been harmed, and you're arguing that this is irrelevant and they should ignore what's happened to prevent the POSSIBILITY not CERTAINTY that the abuse will assault someone else.
I will bet on it now that if you told someone who has been sexually abused that if they didn't inform someone of what's happened someone else will DEFINITELY be sexually assaulted, not a maybe, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
You argument comes from an idea you havent fully thought out. Let me start by saying I understand what youre trying to say. But its not correct and definitely not fair and disrespectful to the victim. The rapist does NOT get to place a responsibility on their victim to inform someone. That is, it is not a responsibility of someone whos been raped to prevent others from being assaulted. That responsbility to not rape someone lies solely on the person who did the rape - i.e. your argument is removing the responsibility of a rapists decisions. "His previous victim didn't inform someone so it's partially their fault" rather than "the rapists raped someone, they're a fucked up person" - which is what the correct response is. You see how the former is disgusting and removes responsibility from the rapist?
The one and ONLY responsibility of the victim is to take care of themselves and whats happened to them, however they deem fit. If they choose not to inform someone, then it is not acccustomed to them allowing someone else to be raped, knowingly or unknowingly.
Furthermore, this is someone who HAS been harmed, and you're arguing that this is irrelevant and they should ignore what's happened to prevent the POSSIBILITY not CERTAINTY that the abuse will assault someone else.
I will bet on it now that if you told someone who has been sexually abused that if they didn't inform someone of what's happened someone else will DEFINITELY be sexually assaulted, not a maybe, they'd do it in a heartbeat.
Real quick, a word.
I'm not involved in TF2 production. I'm not involved in community events and third-party organisations that bring us events, leagues and streams. I can't speak for any of these people, and all I know about these topics is what these threads show us. I do not know Dashner, Samiface, etc. but I do know Console a bit. He was a good friend when we played together and our season ended abruptly. Due to this and the (lacking) way I handled our team as a leader, I felt a moral obligation to follow this thread, and god damn am I happy I did.
To those who, instead of:
- Commenting on the events and the people related to them
- Sympathizing with the victims of abuse, harassment and blackmail
- Discuss the future of this community and how it will handle such cases from now on
choose to directly talk about the way the victims handle their specific cases and give their two cents on what a victim should have done...
Kindly shut the fuck up.
Unless you've been a victim of abuse or known someone who was/involved in legal proceedings related to cases of abuse and the like, you have no right to tell them what to do. These people have to muster every little bit of courage they can find within themselves to speak up against abusers who could very well destroy their reputations and dreams. And they did. And you want to tell them they should've spoken up earlier, or should've gone to the authorities, or whatever else. I don't give a shit.
As people who are currently involved in the community by reading and commenting on this thread, your role is to give these victims your support and discuss the events themselves, the people involved and how the community will move on from this and improve itself. Anyone who wants to give suggestions on how to handle the abusers, or anyone who engages in victim-blaming, or anyone posting memes or being general trolls in serious threads like these should stop immediately. Doesn't matter if the intent is to help, be annoying or be a dick. When legal action is a possible solution to a problem like this, you should let the victims reach out to actual professionals and work out a solution on their own at their own pace and to their preference. Internet lawyers and life coaches are not a thing and you are certainly not one of them.
Stay strong, Console and everyone involved.
Real quick, a word.
I'm not involved in TF2 production. I'm not involved in community events and third-party organisations that bring us events, leagues and streams. I can't speak for any of these people, and all I know about these topics is what these threads show us. I do not know Dashner, Samiface, etc. but I [b]do[/b] know Console a bit. He was a good friend when we played together and our season ended abruptly. Due to this and the (lacking) way I handled our team as a leader, I felt a moral obligation to follow this thread, and god damn am I happy I did.
[u]To those who,[/u] instead of:
- Commenting on the events and the people related to them
- Sympathizing with the victims of abuse, harassment and blackmail
- Discuss the future of this community and how it will handle such cases from now on
[u]choose to directly talk about the way the victims handle their specific cases[/u] and give their two cents on what a victim should have done...
[i]Kindly shut the fuck up[/i].
[b]Unless[/b] you've been a victim of abuse or known someone who was/involved in legal proceedings related to cases of abuse and the like, you have no right to tell them what to do. These people have to muster every little bit of courage they can find within themselves to speak up against abusers who could very well destroy their reputations and dreams. And they did. And you want to tell them they should've spoken up earlier, or should've gone to the authorities, or whatever else. I don't give a shit.
As people who are currently involved in the community by reading and commenting on this thread, your role is to give these victims your support and discuss the events themselves, the people involved and how the community will move on from this and improve itself. Anyone who wants to give suggestions on how to handle the abusers, or anyone who engages in victim-blaming, or anyone posting memes or being general trolls in serious threads like these should stop immediately. Doesn't matter if the intent is to help, be annoying or be a dick. When legal action is a possible solution to a problem like this, you should let the victims reach out to actual professionals and work out a solution on their own at their own pace and to their preference. Internet lawyers and life coaches are not a thing and you are certainly not one of them.
Stay strong, Console and everyone involved.
I'm not involved in TF2 production. I'm not involved in community events and third-party organisations that bring us events, leagues and streams. I can't speak for any of these people, and all I know about these topics is what these threads show us. I do not know Dashner, Samiface, etc. but I [b]do[/b] know Console a bit. He was a good friend when we played together and our season ended abruptly. Due to this and the (lacking) way I handled our team as a leader, I felt a moral obligation to follow this thread, and god damn am I happy I did.
[u]To those who,[/u] instead of:
- Commenting on the events and the people related to them
- Sympathizing with the victims of abuse, harassment and blackmail
- Discuss the future of this community and how it will handle such cases from now on
[u]choose to directly talk about the way the victims handle their specific cases[/u] and give their two cents on what a victim should have done...
[i]Kindly shut the fuck up[/i].
[b]Unless[/b] you've been a victim of abuse or known someone who was/involved in legal proceedings related to cases of abuse and the like, you have no right to tell them what to do. These people have to muster every little bit of courage they can find within themselves to speak up against abusers who could very well destroy their reputations and dreams. And they did. And you want to tell them they should've spoken up earlier, or should've gone to the authorities, or whatever else. I don't give a shit.
As people who are currently involved in the community by reading and commenting on this thread, your role is to give these victims your support and discuss the events themselves, the people involved and how the community will move on from this and improve itself. Anyone who wants to give suggestions on how to handle the abusers, or anyone who engages in victim-blaming, or anyone posting memes or being general trolls in serious threads like these should stop immediately. Doesn't matter if the intent is to help, be annoying or be a dick. When legal action is a possible solution to a problem like this, you should let the victims reach out to actual professionals and work out a solution on their own at their own pace and to their preference. Internet lawyers and life coaches are not a thing and you are certainly not one of them.
Stay strong, Console and everyone involved.
Finally what people I know have thought about Dashner for a decade being revealed to be true (that is a sociopath and fucked up in the head) sadly to be more fucked up then I ever thought, feel bad for people who had to interact with him.
Good luck TF2 community, enjoy the morality driven arguments in this thread from the useless forum dwelling children, I just hope good people left can recover from this and the BTS LAN cancelling and keep the community going.
Finally what people I know have thought about Dashner for a decade being revealed to be true (that is a sociopath and fucked up in the head) sadly to be more fucked up then I ever thought, feel bad for people who had to interact with him.
Good luck TF2 community, enjoy the morality driven arguments in this thread from the useless forum dwelling children, I just hope good people left can recover from this and the BTS LAN cancelling and keep the community going.
Good luck TF2 community, enjoy the morality driven arguments in this thread from the useless forum dwelling children, I just hope good people left can recover from this and the BTS LAN cancelling and keep the community going.
Why did he want to sabotage the game like that though? Wtf? Whats wrong with this guy?
Couldnt imagine the shit Uberchain has being going through this whole time
Power gets to people’s head so easily in this so called pointless/dead game it seems. When I read Uberchains chat logs last night I felt physically sick
Why did he want to sabotage the game like that though? Wtf? Whats wrong with this guy?
Couldnt imagine the shit Uberchain has being going through this whole time
Power gets to people’s head so easily in this so called pointless/dead game it seems. When I read Uberchains chat logs last night I felt physically sick
Couldnt imagine the shit Uberchain has being going through this whole time
Power gets to people’s head so easily in this so called pointless/dead game it seems. When I read Uberchains chat logs last night I felt physically sick
Geel9To speak up is to relive, in great detail, being raped. It is to be questioned and doubted at every turn. It is to have perceived inconsistencies called out and further explanations demanded of you. It is to potentially destroy relationships you have with people you love because they don't believe you. By speaking up, you are placing yourself under more scrutiny than the person you're accusing of fucking rape. And in the end, after all that pain, after all the bullshit and relived trauma, you might simply be discarded as lying trash. You may well have helped nobody, had your reputation tarnished, and the net result is that the victim is only further victimized.
uberchainBut in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars.
Wanted to highlight these since it needed to be said. It's not as easy as it sounds to say something and at the same time try to save yourself. Nobody wants their social structure to collapse around them when their abusers are wrapped up so tightly into the foundation of your state of being.
However, every fucking day I sit and wonder what would have happened if I told someone, this man who was entrusted with teaching me one on one, was doing things to me that I realize now fall under sexual assault. Who would have believed a child with no proof? What would my parents think of me and would they never let me go out again? Would my friends ostracize me for having an inappropriate sexual experience? Would I become known as the girl who cried wolf with no physical evidence of something that happened so long ago? Did he go on and do those things to other children because I never said anything? Or did I even process what he did to me was wrong at that age? Did he ever get caught eventually? Or is he still out there, 20 or so years later because I didn't say anything? Is it too late?
Something to think about, and why a lot of victims are afraid.
[quote=Geel9]
To speak up is to relive, in great detail, being raped. It is to be questioned and doubted at every turn. It is to have perceived inconsistencies called out and further explanations demanded of you. It is to potentially destroy relationships you have with people you love because they don't believe you. By speaking up, you are placing yourself under more scrutiny than the person you're accusing of fucking rape. And in the end, after all that pain, after all the bullshit and relived trauma, you might simply be discarded as lying trash. You may well have helped nobody, had your reputation tarnished, and the net result is that the victim is only further victimized.[/quote]
[quote=uberchain]But in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars. [/quote]
Wanted to highlight these since it needed to be said. It's not as easy as it sounds to say something and at the same time try to save yourself. Nobody wants their social structure to collapse around them when their abusers are wrapped up so tightly into the foundation of your state of being.
However, every fucking day I sit and wonder what would have happened if I told someone, this man who was entrusted with teaching me one on one, was doing things to me that I realize now fall under sexual assault. Who would have believed a child with no proof? What would my parents think of me and would they never let me go out again? Would my friends ostracize me for having an inappropriate sexual experience? Would I become known as the girl who cried wolf with no physical evidence of something that happened so long ago? Did he go on and do those things to other children because I never said anything? Or did I even process what he did to me was wrong at that age? Did he ever get caught eventually? Or is he still out there, 20 or so years later because I didn't say anything? Is it too late?
Something to think about, and why a lot of victims are afraid.
To speak up is to relive, in great detail, being raped. It is to be questioned and doubted at every turn. It is to have perceived inconsistencies called out and further explanations demanded of you. It is to potentially destroy relationships you have with people you love because they don't believe you. By speaking up, you are placing yourself under more scrutiny than the person you're accusing of fucking rape. And in the end, after all that pain, after all the bullshit and relived trauma, you might simply be discarded as lying trash. You may well have helped nobody, had your reputation tarnished, and the net result is that the victim is only further victimized.[/quote]
[quote=uberchain]But in calling current victims cowards and a part of the problem - which they absolutely end up agreeing with in their guilt and wonder if they should have ended up sacrificing their safety or reputation for somebody who might not even believe them - you drastically oversimplify the situation to the point of offensiveness, even with good intentions. And you end up accidentally - despite your end goal being the same as everybody else's - contributing to victims not wanting to speak up. We are not just afraid of our abusers or the people who will call us liars. [/quote]
Wanted to highlight these since it needed to be said. It's not as easy as it sounds to say something and at the same time try to save yourself. Nobody wants their social structure to collapse around them when their abusers are wrapped up so tightly into the foundation of your state of being.
However, every fucking day I sit and wonder what would have happened if I told someone, this man who was entrusted with teaching me one on one, was doing things to me that I realize now fall under sexual assault. Who would have believed a child with no proof? What would my parents think of me and would they never let me go out again? Would my friends ostracize me for having an inappropriate sexual experience? Would I become known as the girl who cried wolf with no physical evidence of something that happened so long ago? Did he go on and do those things to other children because I never said anything? Or did I even process what he did to me was wrong at that age? Did he ever get caught eventually? Or is he still out there, 20 or so years later because I didn't say anything? Is it too late?
Something to think about, and why a lot of victims are afraid.
this is all so incredibly disappointing to read
after meeting dashner in person several times for lan events, it's still incredibly hard to accept this but really thinking if he was capable of any of this and it all points to yes, it's just so difficult to think of someone you consider to be a friend can be such a monster outside of your interactions with them
i'm sorry you and uberchain and any others had to deal with any of this, my heart hurts for you
this is all so incredibly disappointing to read
after meeting dashner in person several times for lan events, it's still incredibly hard to accept this but really thinking if he was capable of any of this and it all points to yes, it's just so difficult to think of someone you consider to be a friend can be such a monster outside of your interactions with them
i'm sorry you and uberchain and any others had to deal with any of this, my heart hurts for you
after meeting dashner in person several times for lan events, it's still incredibly hard to accept this but really thinking if he was capable of any of this and it all points to yes, it's just so difficult to think of someone you consider to be a friend can be such a monster outside of your interactions with them
i'm sorry you and uberchain and any others had to deal with any of this, my heart hurts for you
So Samiface knew this and still wanted his involvement, and when console came forward she asked him to step down and blamed the community for not supporting this piece of shit rapist called Dashner?
So Samiface knew this and still wanted his involvement, and when console came forward she asked him to step down and blamed the community for not supporting this piece of shit rapist called Dashner?
zxpSo Samiface knew this and still wanted his involvement, and when console came forward she asked him to step down and blamed the community for not supporting this piece of shit rapist called Dashner?
The nonce illuminati hard at work
[quote=zxp]So Samiface knew this and still wanted his involvement, and when console came forward she asked him to step down and blamed the community for not supporting this piece of shit rapist called Dashner?[/quote]
The nonce illuminati hard at work
The nonce illuminati hard at work
wow those slack logs
what a spiteful unfunny eejit
wow those slack logs
what a spiteful unfunny eejit
what a spiteful unfunny eejit
As Uberchain said, I can somewhat understand being hesitant to believe something like this about a really close friend, and to some extent to even protect them, but if multiple people step forward you're just hard in denial. That paired with not even explaining yourself and even now seeing the exposure as the issue here and not the sexual assaults, is just irredeemable.
As Uberchain said, I can somewhat understand being hesitant to believe something like this about a really close friend, and to some extent to even protect them, but if multiple people step forward you're just hard in denial. That paired with not even explaining yourself and even now seeing the exposure as the issue here and not the sexual assaults, is just irredeemable.
lol who did this
lol who did this
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/83c751aaa23cb09d52d43448d04a8075.jpg[/img]
https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/User:Dashner
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/83c751aaa23cb09d52d43448d04a8075.jpg[/img]
https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/User:Dashner
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