when are we going to be pulling gullywash for this map

Had a quick jump around.

I like the aesthetic of the map. Something I don't like is that there are a lot of areas that look like you should be able to jump on or over them, but you can't.

played this in a map test pug, actually really enjoyed it, but stylax is correct. even in actual gameplay it still felt like I was consistently slamming into invisible walls on bombs

1000x this. Make it clear with actual walls where the players cannot go.

the map feels like it is super easy to defend and hard to push anywhere (from a soldier main perspective), which imo will lead to a lot of spy offclass. open up some entrances to a more fluid gameplay

also the mid feels tiny and i feel like there is literally no chance for bombs because of scouts (apart from the 2 highbombs) or both of your sollies rollout extremely fast and roll and wipe enemies. i haven't played the map in an actual setting so i'm talking my ass off :D

everything else has been said already

Mids being smaller and not forcing you into rotation style mids is actually way better for soldiers than scout. In playtesting it’s been pretty clearly demonstrated to be a soldier/demo dominated middle point

Could you send some examples of places that should have more obvious walls? I’m aware of this issue in some parts of the map, but I might have missed some.

B1 Update:

• Artpassed the map, although I'm aware of some visual bugs I'm intending to fix in B1A
  
• Improved clipping throughout the map
  
• Replaced small ammokits in fountain with medium ones.

B2 Update:

Restructured one side of last to make it more interesting

B3 Update:

• Made some adjustments to last sightlines & put stuff under the raised wooden platform on last
  
• Re-designed the right push route from lobby into last - in testing, this has proven to be too powerful and fast of a push route
  
• Added a ramp and boulder on right push route into last
  
• Redesigned cellar

Also s/o to RGL for allowing this into the Fall Map Cup!

B3A Update:
Fixed asymmetry issues

seems like rolling out left side is way better for demo while everyone else should go right side
mid and lobby/last feel great to play on, but 2nd is a bit too big and i wouldnt know where to hold on it
it could be interesting to replace the pillar under the mid point with a small healthpack for some risk-reward
Full playtest

B3B Update:

• Fixed some incorrect textures
  
• Did some minor detail work
  
• Fixed clipping on the planks on second
  
• Added soundscapes

B4 Update:

• Removed boulder and crate/barrels pile on last
  
• Blocked up some sightlines on last with fences
  
• Made some doorways into last smaller
  
• Moved staircase away from the shutter in lobby
  
• Made some clipping improvements around the map

B5 Update

• Raised/replaced the wood fence on right side of last
  
• Reduced the size of the stone fence on last to open up an angle for attackers
  
• Made barriers by the point on mid transparent
  
• Turned the wood ramp out of cellar to last into a grass displacement

B6 Update

• Added foliage detailing (vines, grass)
  
• Added more out-of-bounds detailing on last
  
• Made the wall around the doorway between tunnel and cellar on last a transparent texture and reduced the door size

B6A Update:
Very minor fixes to wallbugs, a missing decal, and a broken displacement

B6B Update:
Fixed a wallbug and some grass sprites sticking through places they shouldn't be.

very good map, idk why but i feel the underpass under point feels like spam city and really doesn't provide for a good "lower" flank

i think second point would benefit more from having an extra place to high bomb from

second point gazebo shouldn't have an invisible wall around it, got confused when i got blocked by it during a bomb. i do like that you cant stand on it though cause aerial denial would be massive with it

Thanks for the feedback. I could try opening up the underpass a bit more to address the spam issue. As for the invisible wall above gazebo, there's no easy fix to that. Either you can stand on the roof or you can't. Only other option would be to make it a lighthouse or something in which case I'm completely ripping off sunshine. I've heard from multiple people that attacking second as soldier is a pain, so I want to address that in the next update, possible adding new highbomb spots, although it would help if you could show me where on the map you want to see them.

hey man, I loved the map in the rgl cup, my biggest issue was when the enemy team is holding second point and you have mid, the demo can lock out choke/double door, both soldiers spam the elbow, and then one scout sits on the rocks by second point watching the fountain area so no one can flank the demo holding choke. That is what FROYO did and it was incredibly impossible to even get a sack through any door, but I think if the fountain walls were opened up instead of having a weird skybox, then you could send a soldier onto the demo by choke or do some type of speed shot, opening up the sacking and pushing opportunities. Either a change on the fountain area or making the skybox not weird/blocked would be beneficial, imo. Either way really enjoyed the map and can't wait to see where this one ends up :)

B7 Update:
Took some feedback from the map cup for this. Note: this doesn't mean this is the ONLY feedback I'm responding to, expect more possible changes based on map cup feedback.

• Redesigned truck completely
  
• Raised the fence on second
  
• Made shape of big wall the same on both second points
  
• New map lighting and skybox
  
• Blocked sightline on second
  
• Fixed some clipping issues
  
• Opened up sewer under mid

EDIT: I forgot to compile with clipping so I re-uploaded as B7A

B8 Update:

• Added a 3D skybox
  
• Did some detailing
  
• Improved lighting
  
• Re-positioned forward spawn on second
  
• Made small quality of life changes to geometry around the map (smoothed out a ramp on second, removed part of a wood barrier on second, moved boxes slightly in lobby)
  
• Raised and covered the roof of fountain, made doorway into second from fountain larger
  
• Optimized the map more so it doesn't kill framerates

B9 Update:
This update addresses some of the general complaints I've been hearing about the map, particularly from the most recent ozfortress cup in which it was played

• Made mid bigger
  
• Removed the market stall on mid and pulled the stairs over to reduce clutter
  
• Slightly reduced the size of fountain and changed the stairwell a bit, moved the health and ammo pack to the bottom of the stairs
  
• Changed the wood boards on second to an actual staircase connecting the exit from fountain into second to the high ground by choke
  
• Redesigned the entrance from cafe into lobby
  
• Added a small health pack under the hedge on last
  
• Added more boulders outside of the map to hide a seam with the 3d skybox
  
• Fixed a wallbug on mid

EDIT: Updated to B9A to fix missing clipping

B10 Update:

• Redesigned shack on mid
  
• Slightly changed the terrain of mid with more displacements
  
• Added stairs and a platform on mid

B11 Update:

• Moved shack on mid
  
• Re-designed tower and stairs to it on mid

EDIT: Patched invisible textures with B11A update

B12 Update:

- More detailing around the map
- Changed the geometry of the tiled high ground on last slightly
- Lowered the jump height on top of the vine post in valley
- Changed shack on mid
- Opened up the door from fountain into mid
- Removed the sign over valley
- Added another small ammo pack to last

B12A: Fixed a wallbug, added spectator cameras

2nd feels hugeeee and the chokes in mid are super cramped
mid feels pretty small in general

B13 Update: I made these changes in response to feedback from the RGL Invite maptests, most of these changes are meant to help soldiers.

- Changed shack and terrain around shack on mid to make it harder to dodge splash damage
- Added back the market stalls to mid to give soldiers a perch
- Completely reworked elbow/truck to make second less open
- Moved second platform/rock closer to the point and added a lip to the outside of the point - the jump from rock to point is no longer scout exclusive, and the new lip gives bombing soldiers a spot to land on
- Added another rock to second to fill an empty corner
- Added a fence to upper lobby to make it less open

B13A: Sewed a broken displacement on red second
B13B: Fixed a copy/paste error that duplicated a small healthkit on second, fixed floating rocks on second, repositioned kits in elbow and made them both medium.