plusProtonhttps://i.imgur.com/cp5iAnF.png
https://i.redd.it/roei94nw19m41.jpg
Hi so I hate Biden but this post is mostly historical bunk:
Jackson would’ve gotten absolutely shitstomped by Bush in 1988, no question. His base was insanely narrow on the general election scale. Dukakis was definitely the better electoral choice there, he was up by a lot (granted the commonly cited 17 points figure is exaggerated because it was only one poll taken over a very brief span of time) and easily could’ve won had he not made so many retarded decisions. Dukakis triangulating his rhetoric right on criminal justice (which Clinton did in 1992, and to great effect) and not doing the tank ad absolutely could've beaten Bush. Jackson never, ever would've.
McGovern was supported by a few people as a prospective nominee in 1968 and briefly stood in for RFK (who had been killed) at the convention in Chicago, but he didn’t win (or even run in) a single primary. I assume whoever wrote this was thinking about Eugene McCarthy???? Anyways, it’s worth noting that the only issue on which McCarthy was more liberal than Humphrey was the war; Humphrey was a very staunch supporter of a big welfare state and so was McCarthy. The notion of McCarthy doing better than Humphrey in the general incredibly specious, he had much less support among blacks and older people than Humphrey and wasn’t very popular with organized labor. Going back to McGovern, he of course would run four years later on the most solidly liberal platform of any Democrat in the history of the party and lost 49 states. But nobody back then really considered Humphrey a "moderate." He was from Minnesota and derided pretty viciously by the more conservative and genuinely moderate members of his own party for calling himself a liberal, even as it was becoming more unfashionable to do so. He was actually more outspoken on racial issues than McCarthy, who was singlemindedly focused on the war (which is why he did so horribly among black voters in the primary). Even on the war, the one issue on which he wasn't as left as McCarthy, he spoke out directly against the war more than a month before the election when he freed himself from LBJ's grip. At the end of the day, though, he was in a bind. He couldn't win the nomination by being outspoken against the war because he needed backroom support from party bosses to win delegates without running in the primary, but that meant he lost young voters who despised him as a fixture of the Johnson administration and refused to vote for him in the general even after he pivoted to what he really believed, which was that the war needed to end. Nonetheless, he was objectively the preferable candidate to McCarthy on a strategic level.
Humphrey very nearly won the election through overwhelming black and union support in key states and would’ve actually pulled it off if Nixon hadn’t committed treason and destroyed the peace talks. I seriously doubt McCarthy could’ve been able to get that close to winning. What McCarthy had in support from young whites, he lacked in support from every other important demographic. There's a reason McCarthy got absolutely butchered in the California primary. That said, the clear ideal candidate in that race was RFK.
I agree about 2004. Bush's campaign was privately scared of Dean, much more so than Kerry. The dems thought nominating a war vet was somehow the right strategy and Rove clearly proved them badly wrong.
[quote=plusProton][img]https://i.imgur.com/cp5iAnF.png[/img]
[img]https://i.redd.it/roei94nw19m41.jpg[/img][/quote]
Hi so I hate Biden but this post is mostly historical bunk:
Jackson would’ve gotten absolutely shitstomped by Bush in 1988, no question. His base was insanely narrow on the general election scale. Dukakis was definitely the better electoral choice there, he was up by a lot (granted the commonly cited 17 points figure is exaggerated because it was only one poll taken over a very brief span of time) and easily could’ve won had he not made so many retarded decisions. Dukakis triangulating his rhetoric right on criminal justice (which Clinton did in 1992, and to great effect) and not doing the tank ad absolutely could've beaten Bush. Jackson never, ever would've.
McGovern was supported by a few people as a prospective nominee in 1968 and briefly stood in for RFK (who had been killed) at the convention in Chicago, but he didn’t win (or even run in) a single primary. I assume whoever wrote this was thinking about Eugene McCarthy???? Anyways, it’s worth noting that the only issue on which McCarthy was more liberal than Humphrey was the war; Humphrey was a very staunch supporter of a big welfare state and so was McCarthy. The notion of McCarthy doing better than Humphrey in the general incredibly specious, he had much less support among blacks and older people than Humphrey and wasn’t very popular with organized labor. Going back to McGovern, he of course would run four years later on the most solidly liberal platform of any Democrat in the history of the party and lost 49 states. But nobody back then really considered Humphrey a "moderate." He was from Minnesota and derided pretty viciously by the more conservative and genuinely moderate members of his own party for calling himself a liberal, even as it was becoming more unfashionable to do so. He was actually more outspoken on racial issues than McCarthy, who was singlemindedly focused on the war (which is why he did so horribly among black voters in the primary). Even on the war, the one issue on which he wasn't as left as McCarthy, he spoke out directly against the war more than a month before the election when he freed himself from LBJ's grip. At the end of the day, though, he was in a bind. He couldn't win the nomination by being outspoken against the war because he needed backroom support from party bosses to win delegates without running in the primary, but that meant he lost young voters who despised him as a fixture of the Johnson administration and refused to vote for him in the general even after he pivoted to what he really believed, which was that the war needed to end. Nonetheless, he was objectively the preferable candidate to McCarthy on a strategic level.
Humphrey very nearly won the election through overwhelming black and union support in key states and would’ve actually pulled it off if Nixon hadn’t committed treason and destroyed the peace talks. I seriously doubt McCarthy could’ve been able to get that close to winning. What McCarthy had in support from young whites, he lacked in support from every other important demographic. There's a reason McCarthy got absolutely butchered in the California primary. That said, the clear ideal candidate in that race was RFK.
I agree about 2004. Bush's campaign was privately scared of Dean, much more so than Kerry. The dems thought nominating a war vet was somehow the right strategy and Rove clearly proved them badly wrong.
Speaking of historical stuff, it's important to note that anyone who thinks the 1972 election is somehow more relevant to 2020 than the 2016 election is a moron
The amount that has changed in terms of the racial demographics of this country, the extreme increase in wealth inequality after the past 50 years of neoliberal consensus, the fact that Nixon was actually a POPULAR incumbent, the fact that Nixon won over 50% of under-30 voters, the Thomas Eagleton debacle, the way the Democrats and the labor movement basically fucked McGovern over in order to win down-ballot, etc.
Which is to say, boomers are just taking the experiences of their youth and universalizing it, and the media is egging them on in order to push this bullshit 'electability' canard
Speaking of historical stuff, it's important to note that anyone who thinks the 1972 election is somehow more relevant to 2020 than the 2016 election is a moron
The amount that has changed in terms of the racial demographics of this country, the extreme increase in wealth inequality after the past 50 years of neoliberal consensus, the fact that Nixon was actually a POPULAR incumbent, the fact that Nixon won over 50% of under-30 voters, the Thomas Eagleton debacle, the way the Democrats and the labor movement basically fucked McGovern over in order to win down-ballot, etc.
Which is to say, boomers are just taking the experiences of their youth and universalizing it, and the media is egging them on in order to push this bullshit 'electability' canard
mustardoverlordSpeaking of historical stuff, it's important to note that anyone who thinks the 1972 election is somehow more relevant to 2020 than the 2016 election is a moron
The amount that has changed in terms of the racial demographics of this country, the extreme increase in wealth inequality after the past 50 years of neoliberal consensus, the fact that Nixon was actually a POPULAR incumbent, the fact that Nixon won over 50% of under-30 voters, the Thomas Eagleton debacle, the way the Democrats and the labor movement basically fucked McGovern over in order to win down-ballot, etc.
Which is to say, boomers are just taking the experiences of their youth and universalizing it, and the media is egging them on in order to push this bullshit 'electability' canard
Yeah, the problem is that my parents (and lots of others) still suffer from McGovern PTSD. The first election they ever voted in was 1972, they were solidly left at the time and voted McGovern, and he lost 49 states. Then the first dem to ever get elected after Johnson was Carter, who was a conspicuous pivot to the center and who basically catalyzed the neoliberal consensus. Of course, Carter only had four years and most of it was ineffectual. The first Democrat to actually get re-elected in the centrist lib boomer lifetime was somebody who by 1996 was literally just a moderate Republican. The country has changed so much, but they can't get it through their skulls that it isn't 1996 anymore.
[quote=mustardoverlord]Speaking of historical stuff, it's important to note that anyone who thinks the 1972 election is somehow more relevant to 2020 than the 2016 election is a moron
The amount that has changed in terms of the racial demographics of this country, the extreme increase in wealth inequality after the past 50 years of neoliberal consensus, the fact that Nixon was actually a POPULAR incumbent, the fact that Nixon won over 50% of under-30 voters, the Thomas Eagleton debacle, the way the Democrats and the labor movement basically fucked McGovern over in order to win down-ballot, etc.
Which is to say, boomers are just taking the experiences of their youth and universalizing it, and the media is egging them on in order to push this bullshit 'electability' canard[/quote]
Yeah, the problem is that my parents (and lots of others) still suffer from McGovern PTSD. The first election they ever voted in was 1972, they were solidly left at the time and voted McGovern, and he lost 49 states. Then the first dem to ever get elected after Johnson was Carter, who was a conspicuous pivot to the center and who basically catalyzed the neoliberal consensus. Of course, Carter only had four years and most of it was ineffectual. The first Democrat to actually get re-elected in the centrist lib boomer lifetime was somebody who by 1996 was literally just a moderate Republican. The country has changed so much, but they can't get it through their skulls that it isn't 1996 anymore.
Also Bill Clinton very likely only won in 1992 because of Ross Perot anyways!
Also Bill Clinton very likely only won in 1992 because of Ross Perot anyways!
https://pics.me.me/by-mat-life-in-hell-wisdom-of-the-ages-1970s-13941184.png
https://i.imgur.com/kwmsRpk.jpg
CollaideBoomers really are fighting tooth and nail to make sure the young people of todays world don't have the priveliges they themselves had growing up.
Honestly though every part of the American electoral system is unjust, rigged or stupid. It's designed not to allow for change.
Not sure you know your history too well mate...
The other part is right though
[quote=Collaide][b]Boomers really are fighting tooth and nail to make sure the young people of todays world don't have the priveliges they themselves had growing up.[/b]
Honestly though every part of the American electoral system is unjust, rigged or stupid. It's designed not to allow for change.[/quote]
Not sure you know your history too well mate...
The other part is right though
meanwhile our politicians are throwing hands in the parliament room:)))
meanwhile our politicians are throwing hands in the parliament room:)))
StylaxNot sure you know your history too well mate...
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.
[quote=Stylax]Not sure you know your history too well mate...[/quote]
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.
At least Biden isn't doing the shit republicans in the senate do with no compromises with opponents. in last night's debate he made some compromises to try to win over liberal supporters by agreeing that public college/university should be free for those making <125k/yr. Whether or not you like the guy, he's not evil. I'll still be voting for Bernie in the primary but if Biden wins the nomination, I still fully intend on voting for him in the general election. His being willing to budge on issues that are of utmost importance to me is an encouraging sign that maybe - just maybe - I won't get fucked by whoever is nominated
At least Biden isn't doing the shit republicans in the senate do with no compromises with opponents. in last night's debate he made some compromises to try to win over liberal supporters by agreeing that public college/university should be free for those making <125k/yr. Whether or not you like the guy, he's not evil. I'll still be voting for Bernie in the primary but if Biden wins the nomination, I still fully intend on voting for him in the general election. His being willing to budge on issues that are of utmost importance to me is an encouraging sign that maybe - just maybe - I won't get fucked by whoever is nominated
CollaideStylaxNot sure you know your history too well mate...
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..
[quote=Collaide][quote=Stylax]Not sure you know your history too well mate...[/quote]
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.[/quote]
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..
StylaxCollaideStylaxNot sure you know your history too well mate...
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..
oh how life has improved, now we bomb others with robots instead of going ourselves
[quote=Stylax][quote=Collaide][quote=Stylax]Not sure you know your history too well mate...[/quote]
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.[/quote]
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..[/quote]
oh how life has improved, now we bomb others with robots instead of going ourselves
boxcarim honestly just waiting for biden to announce that hillary is going to be his VP so all the libs and shit will lose their mind and make memes about how they're some power duo or whatever while she plans on how to suicide him so she can be the one in power
Breaking News! President Joe Biden found to have committed suicide after suffering two gunshot wounds to the back of his head tomorrow, more on the story at 8
https://i.gyazo.com/b6495e2ee927681a0f5fe6825a9144ab.png
[quote=boxcar]im honestly just waiting for biden to announce that hillary is going to be his VP so all the libs and shit will lose their mind and make memes about how they're some power duo or whatever while she plans on how to suicide him so she can be the one in power[/quote]
Breaking News! President Joe Biden found to have committed suicide after suffering two gunshot wounds to the back of his head tomorrow, more on the story at 8
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/b6495e2ee927681a0f5fe6825a9144ab.png[/img]
which woman, has he even decided or will anyone with a vagina do for this guy
which woman, has he even decided or will anyone with a vagina do for this guy
excited for joe biden to kiss his running mate on the mouth for a full 30 seconds during his next rally.
excited for joe biden to kiss his running mate on the mouth for a full 30 seconds during his next rally.
joe biden tossing out lists of 1950s pinup girls while each of his assistants tell him they're all dead
joe biden tossing out lists of 1950s pinup girls while each of his assistants tell him they're all dead
my mom is insistent on it being my right as an American to vote so I have to. The problem is there isnt one candidate that makes me want even remotely go to a poll and it sucks that they all suck
my mom is insistent on it being my right as an American to vote so I have to. The problem is there isnt one candidate that makes me want even remotely go to a poll and it sucks that they all suck
bknmy mom is insistent on it being my right as an American to vote so I have to. The problem is there isnt one candidate that makes me want even remotely go to a poll and it sucks that they all suck
what would a good candidate be according to you?
[quote=bkn]my mom is insistent on it being my right as an American to vote so I have to. The problem is there isnt one candidate that makes me want even remotely go to a poll and it sucks that they all suck[/quote]
what would a good candidate be according to you?
hamahambkn
Someone who holds positions that I agree with. Right now the system is set up such that the main criteria for deciding who to vote for is, "who do I hate the least?" This is a system that necessarily leads to the majority of people having their positions be unrepresented in government, which is the opposite of the whole idea behind representative government. And the next logical step from, "my vote will not be representative of me or my ideas" is to say, "therefore I will not vote."
[quote=hamaham][quote=bkn][/quote][/quote]
Someone who holds positions that I agree with. Right now the system is set up such that the main criteria for deciding who to vote for is, "who do I hate the least?" This is a system that necessarily leads to the majority of people having their positions be unrepresented in government, which is the opposite of the whole idea behind representative government. And the next logical step from, "my vote will not be representative of me or my ideas" is to say, "therefore I will not vote."
CollaideStylaxCollaideStylaxNot sure you know your history too well mate...
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..
oh how life has improved, now we bomb others with robots instead of going ourselves
Wat
Yes, life has improved as we re not getting drafted to go and die in wars. is that even debatable?
[quote=Collaide][quote=Stylax][quote=Collaide][quote=Stylax]Not sure you know your history too well mate...[/quote]
And I think you don't know what I referred to.
I wasn't refering to single-payer free healthcare because america never had it.
More like affordable housing, decent jobs with a livable wage etc.[/quote]
Getting drafted in wars, civil rights stuff, nuclear threat, etc etc..[/quote]
oh how life has improved, now we bomb others with robots instead of going ourselves[/quote]
Wat
Yes, life has improved as we re not getting drafted to go and die in wars. is that even debatable?
Joe Biden telling his elderly supporters to throw themselves at this pandemic in a human wave attack just to ensure he doesn't lose to the only person who might actually give us hope of addressing this crisis/preventing things like it in the future
What a dark timeline
Joe Biden telling his elderly supporters to throw themselves at this pandemic in a human wave attack just to ensure he doesn't lose to the only person who might actually give us hope of addressing this crisis/preventing things like it in the future
What a dark timeline
I thought it was great that Joe and Bernie were demonstrating coronavirus awareness at the debate. Podiums were 6 feet apart, no handshakes, and so on. I heard Biden has even decided to temporarily stop sniffing women.
I thought it was great that Joe and Bernie were demonstrating coronavirus awareness at the debate. Podiums were 6 feet apart, no handshakes, and so on. I heard Biden has even decided to temporarily stop sniffing women.
y'all noticed Joe Biden is in hiding?
y'all noticed Joe Biden is in hiding?
https://i.imgur.com/XpXLUII.png
breaking: joe biden has caught coronavirus from snogging his granddaughter
breaking: joe biden has caught coronavirus from snogging his granddaughter
i just spent 5 mins googling joe biden and all i could find is a 20 second clip of him saying he doesnt want to debate any more. sander's youtube channel has clips of him speaking and debating and doing his fucking job. bidens just has a bunch of ads.
i cant fucking believe this is the guy we're going with. im so disappointed in our electorate.
i just spent 5 mins googling joe biden and all i could find is a 20 second clip of him saying he doesnt want to debate any more. sander's youtube channel has clips of him speaking and debating and doing his fucking job. bidens just has a bunch of ads.
i cant fucking believe this is the guy we're going with. im so disappointed in our electorate.
why are americans so backwards?
rip sanders
have fun voting blue no matter who
why are americans so backwards?
rip sanders
have fun voting blue no matter who
something like 80% of regular democratic voters say they trust the media
cnn and msnbc have poisoned the minds of just as many old people as fox has
something like 80% of regular democratic voters say they trust the media
cnn and msnbc have poisoned the minds of just as many old people as fox has
[img]https://i.redd.it/brd5wfo3umr41.png[/img]