yes. glad to know its not just me.

you will likely receive a response in 9-12 months next time floor_master logs on

boom

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great read though. my biggest concern when I ring for friends teams is that they never talk about the match afterwards. Someones always frustrated and everyone just peaces out. I don't really have anything at stake but it's still frustrating to watch a team fail before they even begin

please dont ruin this smash... i will buy a wii U if its good

Didn't read the thread closely, my bad. edited

Dead Ringer

Damage resistance lasts too long for the amount of damage negated, and basically acts as a get out of jail free card, making it difficult to punish discovered spies.

Force A Nature (because I like this gun)

Knockback and more pellets don't justify the slow reload speed and the impracticality of fighting with the weapon in the air.

Liberty Launcher

An explicit crutch that trades effectiveness for ease of use. Cannot possibly match up to other rocket launchers, and encourages bad play.

Mini Sentry

Extremely difficult to destroy while being built, and knockback interferes too much with players fighting around or against it.

Jarate

A weapon that causes a major impact on the flow of the game regardless of the ability of the player using it.

Degreaser and Flamethrowers

Degreaser is superior to all the other flamethrowers to the point that playing without it is a waste of time. I do not believe that the degreaser needs changed however.

MG and Soldier Melees

Equalizer is superior to all the other melees to the point that playing without it is a waste of time. I do not believe that the escape plan needs changed however.

dat a joke?

EDIT: leal_down

But it's not good for both teams, it's good for both snipers. Balance wise it's even, you're right. But banning it gives the other 8 players on your team more room to work with.

I hope to see bans like this appear frequently, because fundamentally broken weapons like these are worse than OP ones like the Enforcer, IMO.

cp_goodlands?

ma3la is now a zombie

Because it inhibits the Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Demo, Heavy, Engineer, Medic, and Spy. By banning this one weapon, every single other class on both teams becomes more important. Because Jarate isn't skill indexed, it basically becomes a permanent fixture in any game the Sniper is running it. Banning it is banning the fixture, and giving everyone else some more breathing room.

Same for the others

but its supposed to get in the way

Also played in this, xposting relevant section from another post:

Just played an HL pug with a ban system, thought I'd share my thoughts.

Also I should preface this by saying that this is the only HL pug I've ever played so I have nothing to compare it to (and thank god it was on a 6s map or I'd have done even worse).

http://logs.tf/45234

We did eight bans, with each team picking four. I think we did 1-1-1-1-2-2, but I wasn't really paying attention cuz I was eating Arbys.

The bans were:

Razorback
Jarate
Wrangler
Flare Gun
Pomson
Phlog
Gunboats
Dead Ringer

The very first thing I noticed was me getting anally destroyed by the enemy spy because I'm a shitlord who can't handle good spies without a Razorback apparently. As I waited to respawn after being backstabbed for the 6th time in one round, it occurred to me that this ban/pick system might actually work better than I first thought. It's not really that different than, like, SSBM picks or something.

You attempt to restrict your opponents strongest players by relegating them to weapons they may not be as effective/familiar with. My team called bans on Jarate and Razorback immediately because the other team's sniper was HL plat, under the assumption that I wouldn't be able to control him. They were right, pretty much. Anyways, it gave our spy the option to focus their sniper a lot more than he could without the bans.

I expect to see weapons like Wrangler, DR, Jarate, and Vita Saw to be the most frequent bans. This is because these weapons aren't skill indexed. Nobody is 'good' at throwing jarate, or aiming the wrangler. They're basically ever present features of the match, that are good for one player and bad for eight. So they'll be very common bans, for the sake of the other eight players. The only exception to that rule is the DR, but with in it's current state it functions as a non-skill indexed weapon in a lot of situations.

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Despite all of the above, it didn't result in any exciting, game changing strats that I could see. This might have been because it's KOTH, but I think it's because we spent all our bans on the shitty, badly designed, and annoying weapons, with two notable exceptions being the Flare Gun and Gunboats (which were mostly for experimental purposes anyways). Banning stock weapons is pretty much out of the question, because it assumes that all players have alternatives when they might not.

If weapons like Jarate/Wrangler/DR/etc were to get some appropriate changes, I think then we might see some more exciting strategies.

You must not have been to SPUF. If they balanced the game the results would be horrifying and arbitrary.

They want to remove the degreaser despite the fact that it's the best thing that ever happened to Pyro.