oh yes, we will definitely be talking about this, it is a very interesting topic

hey dudes! I was going to update viaduct to pro5 soon and figured it could be really cool to livestream the development of the new version. I think it will be a great opportunity for us to get together and discuss various design decisions (making me feel less like a fascist because really, viaduct is not my map, it's our map). There will be mapping anecdotes, stories of all kinds, cake and all that jolly fun.

What I have planned right now is to do this on december 20th, probably around 2pm eastern (will keep you guys updated on the wheres and whens). Depending on how things unfold, there's probably going to be playtests during the day and all that jazz. don't want to miss this! should be a pretty good time...

There are no major changes planned yet but there are a lot of smaller things to fix. I'm compiling a list of things to do as we speak and hopefully, this will be a last cleanup and the definitive version of pro_via. So yeah, if there's any changes you'd like to see, any bugs that need fixin, imbalances that need to be addressed, feel free to list them here and we'll start off with that once we get there.

sorry for not keeping things more up to date but here's whats been happening lately:
-completely redone the area around 2nd
-redistributed height variations around the map to avoid superfluous verticality
-redesigned how 2nd connects to mid
-relocated forward spawn
-and a bunch more minor things

The map never really got any traction here and honestly I don't really care at this point but I feel that we have a solid map on our hands with enough new elements to keep things fresh. That said I'd be really interested in getting this thing tested again (w/e happened to map pugs?)

obligatory screenshot galore:

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b90003.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b90002.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b90001.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b90000.jpg

I hear ya guys, a quick cleanup could be coming shortly

Yep, here it is again, the map that just won't die. Now updated to b6.

Several layout changes were made to make the map more in line with what you would expect from a comp map. I feel like the paths just make more sense now whereas before, stupidly aggressive plays were basically rewarded. I feel like this update does a good job of providing interesting options when it comes to the 2nd capture point.

so yeah, I'm just going to drop the picture bomb. Check out the map if you have the chance, links in the original post.

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60000.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60001.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60002.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60004.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60005.jpg

http://forums.tf2maps.net/geek/gars/images/4/2/4/8/cp_vanguard_b60006.jpg

alright cool, cp_vanguard getting some feedback. here of all places! :D thing with comp mapping is that the feedback is hard to track down sometimes. it's easy to feel ignored as a mapper but don't let that keep you down. there probably will be a lack of feedback, but look at any stvs you get and do your best to figure things out on your own.

played the map the other day, it was a blast

alright, I might play around with the skybox a little and see how the lighting ends up. having a custom skybox made the filesize larger anyways so I'm not too attached to it.

and yeah, the monitor is still mostly the same but it's not as hallow so there's very little cover up there now. I'll nerf it more in the future if needed.

*you probably shouldn't read the following because I'm just ranting*

don't be afraid, I'm not going to complain about players not knowing the map because that's something only bad mappers say (in my opinion). I do aim to make vanguard as easy to pick up and intuitive as possible but also to give it that right amount of depth, a hard balance to achieve. blaming players is the reaction of a mapper who doesn't want to acknowledge flaws in his map, probably in a pathetic attempt at convincing people the map is good.

so I'm still working on this map, we're now on cp_vanguard_b5. the bigger changes are:
- rearranged the layout around the 2nd capture area
- modified a path on last
- nerfed the spot above the monitor

along with other more or less noteworthy modifications.
I still don't really have a clear idea of what this community thinks of this map but w/e, I can deal with that.

hey it was designed for 6s all along but ugc gave the map a chance because they actually do try, what can I say.

cp/koth_vanguard just sayin (it will be played in UGC next week)

but isn't it interesting, gameplay wise, to be able to respawn and have enough time to contest A? (or you can use that time for something less interesting like setting up on B)

I mean, there's no other map that offers that possibility

#15
1)
there used to be a window there but I do not know why it was removed (limiting visibility from inside the building is my best guess). I'm open to the idea to put it back. doesn't have to be a glass window either, can be a boarded up window.

2)all windows have been addressed with this update.
for this set of 3 windows, the top 2 you cannot stand on anymore, the bottom one you can.

how I tackled every window basically came down to 2 questions
1- can it block rocketjumps mid-air?
2- does it create interesting navigation opportunities? (not just something others refer to as a "gay soldier hiding spot")

people have suggested replacing the metal sheets with metal grates or fences so that the splash damage feels more natural. but then you can see the sniper and the sniper can see you, all from behind cover. would that be a good thing?

yes they were, I updated the map after a semi private 2 player test. but shit blew up and before I knew it, the old version was already circulating around the web. so yeah, if in doubt, update your map. op has the right file now.

kinda wish people were this excited for my original maps...