Correct me if I'm wrong here but gravelpit has been voted out of the map rotations in other leagues around the world for two reasons:

1) the strategies have gotten stale
2) the map doesn't have the fluidity that a 5cp or KOTH map would have

The lack of transitions makes it less dynamic.
It sort of feels like:

Attack > Fail > Wait 40 seconds > Repeat
Attack > Succeed > Hold out the enemy team while cap > 40 seconds > Repeat

I'm not sure that it should be voted out at this time because there doesn't seem to be any adequate replacements, but it is the weakest map in the rotation at this time.

Also, the map choice shouldn't be based on spectators unless it is the last criteria that we judge. There are hardly any spectators for TF2 in comparison to other games, so we should just pick based on what is fun to play. And as far as keeping gpit in the rotation goes, it has mostly been used as a tie-breaker map because it is exciting and never results in a tie. Viaduct isn't the best tie-breaker map, but it could be suitable if necessary.

A little off the gpit subthread topic but whats wrong with Gullywash? i don't see any decently formulated complaints, i think its an all around solid ass map.

Gullywash last is a fortress.

I feel like gullywash last is highly overrated in terms of how hard it is to push

snakewater last is a hundred times worse imo

Why the hell do people want Yukon back in the rotation? It was removed for a reason.

Well it was a joke, no need to be upset.

what is wrong about gpit is that is not well suited for the 6s format, defending teams have to use at least one engi or heavy, and there's literally no issue in holding c with heavy + engi.
on viaduct, if one of your players is a good sniper then you force the other team to run sniper too or they get destroyed. and the map itself has just too much stupid asymmetric problems.

I find gpit to be one of the most fun maps actually.

You definitely have a few options when defending. In open teams like Hanky Panky did some crazy stuff and then in higher divs there was the iron man strat and different placements for defending. My team had to attack with 5 players so we did some crazy kritz heavy stuff which worked pretty well imo.

Idk how it plays for people more experienced though, just my 2 cents.

I agree fully, holy fuck is snakewater last awful. So chokey. Kinda like granary.

Thread I made a few days ago to get people to scrim Edifice: http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/6887-need-teams-to-seriously-test-new-maps/

It's really important that any new map gets extensively tested in scrims in addition to pugs. Ashville was tested in pugs but I don't believe anyone ever scrimmed it prior to voting it in. What we really need are players with lots of influence (bl4nk, djc, anyone in the top half of invite) to scrim new maps, as they will influence the vote heavily (which is what happened with Ashville).

Right now, I'd keep the same maplist this season, with the appropriate updates being made (Metalworks to rc4 when scorpio finishes that, Process to rc3?)

About a pro version of Granary or at least one with fixed spawns: it probably shouldn't happen and probably will not be done by most mappers. It is just a pain to rework, according to them. Decompiling the map results in lost data and the SDK version is out of date. The SDK version is missing quite a few things, like the props at mid just out of choke and the third garage door. These could be fixed, but first we'd need a list of changes from the SDK version to the current version. Here's the update history: http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Granary_(Control_Point)#Update_history

We can ignore the latest update as it added a useless prop to the skybox. This means we're at least behind 1 update, but I assume the SDK version hasn't been updated since prior to the August 13, 2009 patch; I'm assuming that's when said props at mid were added.

Alternatively, we could just make a new map to replace it, structured similarly.

Edit: Forgot to mention that even though there is already a pro version of Granary, it was bad even without playing it. Also, there is a version with fixed spawns, but I don't know how many differences that one has from the official version.

There is a fixed respawn granary, cp_granary_fixed_respawns

Yeah, I edited that in before your post. Although we need to test it to make sure it's pretty much identical to stock Granary aside from the Red spawns.

Why do people suddenly want Yukon in? Do people not realize why it was taken out in the first place?

there's nothing wrong with the map rotation except Viaduct, Granary (I guess) and, depending on how you look at things, Gravelpit.

Gravelpit sucks.

YouMustMike is right.

Freight.

What about an Ultiduo minicup on Friday night of LAN? Take the combos from the teams and invite a couple of CSGO players for some bragging rights and/or a small cash prize.

similar to the subject of gully above, i've yet to see anyone comment on why koth_ashville is so bad

i think it's an extremely fun map to play (on any class) whereas soldier or medic on viaduct is an absolute nightmare

if we're potentially looking for a viaduct replacement, i'd like to hear some actual discussion on it rather than someone saying "i like koth_ashville" and then everyone ignoring it like the last four times someone mentioned it ITT