Essentials.TF Labs: 133 Tickrate training servers

#31

sage

5 Frags – +

Germany's MGE might need a restart or mapchange, its super stuttery atm

#32

mastercoms

0 Frags – +

FreudCan't think of a good way of phrasing this, but I don't think you should be giving out advice based on justification this weak.

Since this is an Essentials.TF server, and someone with the Essentials.TF label said to use 132 update/cmdrate, I figured there was a good reason the server owners are saying to use that. I am also curious why they said to use 132 instead of 133.

FreudI'm not sure what your logic is here. If compression reduces the average packet size to X% of what it was originally, only X% of the original bandwidth will be used. This saving will apply regardless of the rate packets are being sent at.

If packets are being sent at a faster upload speed in bytes per second, the benefits of compression in terms of speed diminish. Also, the load from compression increases the more packets you're sending.

ArieThe point is reduced transmission times and fitting all packets within sv_maxrate, it's a trade-off.

The rate settings are increased anyway, so fitting packets into the rate isn't really an issue.

ArieThe time you lose (<0.02ms) to compress a packet is gained by having to spend less time transmitting it (because it's now smaller).

With a higher rate setting, bytes are being sent faster and thus the transmission time you save from compression is less.

ArieI'd stick with the defaults (both client and server) over lists of TF2 client and server cvars with no data/benchmarks.

The defaults aren't designed for this higher cmd/update rate. It is more optimal to change them. Though, I agree that some of the more controversial settings might be best to discuss later since this thread is mainly about tickrate rather than net settings.

[quote=Freud]Can't think of a good way of phrasing this, but I don't think you should be giving out advice based on justification this weak.[/quote]
Since this is an Essentials.TF server, and someone with the Essentials.TF label said to use 132 update/cmdrate, I figured there was a good reason the server owners are saying to use that. I am also curious why they said to use 132 instead of 133.

[quote=Freud]I'm not sure what your logic is here. If compression reduces the average packet size to X% of what it was originally, only X% of the original bandwidth will be used. This saving will apply regardless of the rate packets are being sent at.[/quote]
If packets are being sent at a faster upload speed in bytes per second, the benefits of compression in terms of speed diminish. Also, the load from compression increases the more packets you're sending.

[quote=Arie]
The point is reduced transmission times and fitting all packets within sv_maxrate, it's a trade-off. [/quote]
The rate settings are increased anyway, so fitting packets into the rate isn't really an issue.

[quote=Arie]The time you lose (<0.02ms) to compress a packet is gained by having to spend less time transmitting it (because it's now smaller).[/quote]
With a higher rate setting, bytes are being sent faster and thus the transmission time you save from compression is less.

[quote=Arie]
I'd stick with the defaults (both client and server) over lists of TF2 client and server cvars with no data/benchmarks.[/quote]
The defaults aren't designed for this higher cmd/update rate. It is more optimal to change them. Though, I agree that some of the more controversial settings might be best to discuss later since this thread is mainly about tickrate rather than net settings.

#33

WolfMachina

3 Frags – +

I just used 132 because it's double what my normal settings are, that's why I said imo :shrug:

#34

mastercoms

1 Frags – +

WolfMachinaI just used 132 because it's double what my normal settings are, that's why I said imo :shrug:

Oh ok. It's best to set it to 133 since that's the server tickrate.

[quote=WolfMachina]I just used 132 because it's double what my normal settings are, that's why I said imo :shrug:[/quote]
Oh ok. It's best to set it to 133 since that's the server tickrate.

#35

Bloodis

0 Frags – +

AnAkkkYou should not use anything else than 66tick on TF2, there are many parts of the game engine where calculations are based on tick 66, so this’ll fuck up a lot of things (e.g. weapon recoil or doors). That’s why the tickrate is locked to 66 in TF2.

On CS GO Valve fixed all these tickrate issues, so it can be modified without any issues.

Quoted from this thread:
http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/430800/tips-how-to-run-your-server-at-a-higher-tickrate

Have any of the things related to this changed even a bit in the past 2 years?

[quote=AnAkkk]You should not use anything else than 66tick on TF2, there are many parts of the game engine where calculations are based on tick 66, so this’ll fuck up a lot of things (e.g. weapon recoil or doors). That’s why the tickrate is locked to 66 in TF2.

On CS GO Valve fixed all these tickrate issues, so it can be modified without any issues.[/quote]

Quoted from this thread:
http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/430800/tips-how-to-run-your-server-at-a-higher-tickrate

Have any of the things related to this changed even a bit in the past 2 years?

#36

gemm

5 Frags – +

yes, read the thread, there's very few bugs with it it seems

#37

Bloodis

8 Frags – +

I did read both this and the previous thread, hence why I was only wondering if there was anything that would have actually changed in the game to allow anything above 66 tick rate to properly function without the same issues as years ago seeing how now the airstrafing, for example, doesn't seem to be as buggy as it was in the past.

Personally I don't mind TwiiKuu or Wolf Machina trying this out now as an experiment for Essentials.TF, but having other people suddenly hopping into a bandwagon of demanding TF2 to have a bigger tick rate when sacrificing the game from functioning properly is a seriously bad downgrade and shouldn't even be enforced until it is proven to work flawlessly, like in CS:GO.

I did read both this and the previous thread, hence why I was only wondering if there was anything that would have actually changed in the game to allow anything above 66 tick rate to properly function without the same issues as years ago seeing how now the airstrafing, for example, doesn't seem to be as buggy as it was in the past.

Personally I don't mind TwiiKuu or Wolf Machina trying this out now as an experiment for Essentials.TF, but having other people suddenly hopping into a bandwagon of demanding TF2 to have a bigger tick rate when sacrificing the game from functioning properly is a seriously bad downgrade and shouldn't even be enforced until it is proven to work flawlessly, like in CS:GO.

#38

scrambled

0 Frags – +

The way I see it, with the wrangler banned, as soon as the bouncy pipes get fixed there's no reason to not allow this in 6s right?

#39

YeeHaw

-1 Frags – +

played a scrim on this, worked without issue albeit i didnt notice any improvement from normal (i play scout tho). one of our players couldnt connect, but after verifying his game cache he was able to join and from then on no complaints iirc

#40

coyo_geezer

2 Frags – +

Holy fuck 60ping felt like 5 this is so nice.

#41

catman1900

2 Frags – +

damn it feels so nice, it makes me almost not a shit scout.

#42

aurah

16 Frags – +

i think the trick is to switch it back to 66 tick without an announcement to weed out the placebo

#43

Saturnite

1 Frags – +

aurahi think the trick is to switch it back to 66 tick without an announcement to weed out the placebo

A lot of animations play a bit differently, so people will realize when it's back to 66 without necessarily knowing if the game actually feels any worse.

[quote=aurah]i think the trick is to switch it back to 66 tick without an announcement to weed out the placebo[/quote]

A lot of animations play a bit differently, so people will realize when it's back to 66 without necessarily knowing if the game actually feels any worse.

#44

Senpai

1 Frags – +

ArieI've modified 3 EU serveme.tf servers to run at 133Hz:

133Hz - BolusBrigade #1
133Hz - BeretBrigade #1
133Hz - KroketBrigade #1

Just tick "Enable plugins" when making your reservation.

is this temporary?

[quote=Arie]I've modified 3 EU [url=https://serveme.tf/]serveme.tf[/url] servers to run at 133Hz:

133Hz - BolusBrigade #1
133Hz - BeretBrigade #1
133Hz - KroketBrigade #1

Just tick "Enable plugins" when making your reservation.[/quote]

is this temporary?

#45

Arie

serveme.tf

4 Frags – +

SenpaiArieI've modified 3 EU serveme.tf servers to run at 133Hz:

133Hz - BolusBrigade #1
133Hz - BeretBrigade #1
133Hz - KroketBrigade #1

Just tick "Enable plugins" when making your reservation.
is this temporary?

Depends on the results of the test. Personally, I hope people won't find 133 tick a big improvement since it will increase the CPU load on the servers and I have serious doubts that my two 12-core machines can run 133 tick all the time for 6v6, let alone 9v9.

aurahi think the trick is to switch it back to 66 tick without an announcement to weed out the placebo

It's really easy to view the server tickrate (net_graph 5 in the client), so it would be hard to do a blind test.

[quote=Senpai][quote=Arie]I've modified 3 EU [url=https://serveme.tf/]serveme.tf[/url] servers to run at 133Hz:

133Hz - BolusBrigade #1
133Hz - BeretBrigade #1
133Hz - KroketBrigade #1

Just tick "Enable plugins" when making your reservation.[/quote]

is this temporary?[/quote]

Depends on the results of the test. Personally, I hope people won't find 133 tick a big improvement since it will increase the CPU load on the servers and I have serious doubts that my two 12-core machines can run 133 tick all the time for 6v6, let alone 9v9.

[quote=aurah]i think the trick is to switch it back to 66 tick without an announcement to weed out the placebo[/quote]
It's really easy to view the server tickrate (net_graph 5 in the client), so it would be hard to do a blind test.

#46

jrod

0 Frags – +

no i missed the na server :(

#47

Mould

-2 Frags – +

I saw no real improvement, playing soldier felt exactly the same to me, if anything melee felt worse, I had a few times where I felt like I was grinding into someone swinging at nothing

plus the server kept lagging to shit, although twiku sorted it out later, but for now I wouldn't want to be using it

I saw no real improvement, playing soldier felt exactly the same to me, if anything melee felt worse, I had a few times where I felt like I was grinding into someone swinging at nothing

plus the server kept lagging to shit, although twiku sorted it out later, but for now I wouldn't want to be using it

#48

rm

-6 Frags – +

just tried it, and i gotta say there's no improvement at all.
the only improvement is lower lerp, and i don't think it changes much.
my 130 ping feels like 130 ping.

#49

Collaide

refresh.tf

3 Frags – +

To me it feels like the servers are running more smoothly. You guys ever played on a server where players jitter around instead of traveling in smooth motions? It never happened here. Strafing feels so much better as well.

#50

Abysss

6 Frags – +

Much easier to aim, especially with hitscan classes. Actually it feels smooth even with high ping.
Would be amazing to have more servers like this.

#51

UpD

-2 Frags – +

I and few people with me would love to try 133 tick servers, anyone feels like hosting?

#52

dishsoap

-3 Frags – +

UpDI and few people with me would love to try 133 tick servers, anyone feels like hosting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZIpFytCSVc

[quote=UpD]I and few people with me would love to try 133 tick servers, anyone feels like hosting?[/quote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZIpFytCSVc

#53

rm

0 Frags – +

i've compiled the tickrate plugin for windows servers
it's set to 100 tickrate since it breaks if set higher for some reason
it's probably useless since most of tf2 servers are on linux, but why not
and yeah sorry for necroing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tcpcd90p8mxiryr/unlocked_tickrate_100.zip?dl=0