dawg did he get up to use the bathroom or something how does it take 23 seconds to rejoin the team. i wanna give you guys the benefit of the doubt that he wasnt ghosting but from an administrative perspective how do you expect them to not think he was ghosting.

if you really werent ghosting this is just a case of "damn thats unlucky, bro". but 23 seconds?? cmon man thats a really long time to not rejoin team

lmao that is way too long, i did the same thing in a match last season and it took me less than 2 seconds to join my team again, this is 100% deserved imo

you're god's contribution to this community, I love you

He thought it was a deathcam due to him having a bind that puts him straight to spec (from pug group system), only after we told him he went to spec did he return back to a team. I should have put that into the original post.

https://youtu.be/nIToLleIupo
Spawned in, meant to change classes, pressed team switch instead of class switch, pressed 2 for soldier but got put in spec.

yeah im sorry guys but that literally does not prove that you werent ghosting, ya gonna have to deal with it. it happens in every sport. if you trip a guy in hockey on accident its still a tripping penalty. if you shoot a sick 3 pointer swish in basketball a second after the shotclock runs out, the shot doesnt count and the other team gets the ball. if you sit in spectator for 23 seconds youre still sitting in spec for 23 seconds.

just the way the cookie crumbles boys

Sure, but is a 1-month ban reasonable? The dude got 23 seconds of useless information. The outcome of the round would have been identical even if he hadn't accidentally spec'd. Missing the first portion of the 6s season is a pretty big punishment for such an insignificant mistake.

Also, pretty scummy that the ban only went through after he had paid up for 6s.

what if it wasnt useless? what if he had info that won the round?

bringing it back the hockey analogy, a lot of tripping incidents are probably inconsequential to the final outcome of the game, but you cant just go around tripping people, because what if it WAS consequential to a goal being scored? to apply it to TF2 - what if he saw X class in some weird position to stop the push and comm'd it to his team, yeah his team still lost, but what if it DID change the outcome?

we seem to give RGL a lot of flack for "lack of consistency" when it comes to their punishments. but punishing someone sitting in spectate for wayyy too long is the only way to build that consistency. to not punish this incident would be an invitation to people to push the limits of how long they can sit in spectate (e.g. "hmmmm this guy sat in spec for 20 seconds and got away with it... surely i can sit in spec for 10 and get away with it too...")

this should be a default loss not a ban

Please watch the video Jacohi posted and tell me what information he could have told the team that would have won us the round that we had uber and number ad on. And use another sports analogy please

i think its cool he gets banned an extra 5 days because it took whatever RGL admin 5 days to get around to watching the demo

"Don't worry officer I only attempted the robbery I didn't actually manage to steal something"

His point is that it was not intentional. Robbery is intentional, the situation is more like forgetting to pay for fuel at a petrol station and driving away

23 seconds

you know, sometimes peoples brain are slow or confused, you prem ableists are not looking at this from a main perspective.

Accident? yes
Ban justified? Also yes considering how long it took to rejoin. Really that's just on you

If the ban lasts an extra official because admins didn't bother to come to a conclusion for 5 days then that's bs though and I'd appeal to shorten the ban by 5 days

Perhaps a better metaphor is causing a car accident. It not being intentional doesn't mean you didn't make mistakes. And it'd be understandable to lose your driver's license/fine/whatever if it's concluded your actions were out of line

I don't agree at all with going 23 seconds in spectator. If this shit happened at any other point in the map then yes he, and his team, should be penalized/forfeited but this was the end of the map and no useful information could have possibly helped his team.

My problem is that I don't understand the reason for a ban. Considering the circumstances, this player and his whole team should be slapped with a warning at most. If his actions had an impact on the result of the match then no problem with the ban.
The RGL page says the ban is for "ghosting". There was no ghosting, you need a better reason. This looks like a lackluster admin decision.

Player bans need to be on a case by case basis. Penalties issued based on the impact it had on the match/players involved.

---This guy went spec for 23 seconds
---The final cap happened 24/25 seconds after he went spec

What fucking information could he have possibly told his team that they did not already see? They were finishing the final cap and had several people inside the last point anyways............. Its not like he relayed sentry gun position or player locations. It's obvious he wasn't ghosting anything.

I'll say again, I don't agree with the 23 seconds in spec and there should be some type of repercussions, such as a warning or documented offense for the entire team. Then if it happens again from anyone on the team it can be properly disciplined. To just issue a month ban under these circumstances is idiotic IMO.

Aren't spawns on offense like 3 seconds? How did he not notice he didn't respawn.
Also do pov demos show what you were looking at in spec, you might be able to appeal with that if thats a thing

rgl has an inconsistent policy regarding cheating/exploits in matches. Lolguy didn't get penalized at all for exploiting the uber pause glitch in our LB playoff match, which did have an impact on the match IMO (momentum and stuff), but bans this guy for accidentally going into spec for 23 seconds. I am not arguing or commenting on what should be done in either situation, just pointing out inconsistency.

Crazy how a league that treats its community like idiots can manage shit like this.

Honestly, this is a matter of policy. Do you ban for the act or for the advantage gained?
Because there is little to no advantage gained by spectating the demoman briefly, at least not enough to affect the outcome of the round, but he did spectate him.

Now taking 5 days to review a demo is not ideal in a paid league. The "they're all volunteers" excuse stops working when you're paying for a service and don't get it.

Splitting the the punishment into two parts and delaying the second part with a rather coincidental timing is at best a very strange way of doing things if that's normal and ethically and morally questionable if intentional.

this is exactly why RGL is stupid, u need do match losses or warnings and not just straight up nuke people out of the game banning them for months, this guy was probably just a noob who didn't know his shit, ghosting from spec is the most obvious and stupid thing how can u really expect that the other team wouldn't notice it (o boy haha ill pretend im afk and then BOOM you know they have uber! except u dont have a player for 30 seconds so they push and kill u anyways)

when i first saw this i thought to myself its so ridiculous to get banned for an entire month for hitting a spec bind (which shouldn't even be possible while the match cfg is live)

but then i realized if you trip someone in hockey it's still a tripping violation and if you shoot a nice 3 pointer after the shot clock runs out you get suspended for a month. and real sports are notoriously good with rules so there's really no argument here. sometimes you just have to admit you made a mistake and move on, and in a way you could be thankful that you're given a month to think about it and make sure it doesn't happen again

sry guys

this whole situation reminds me of that one rule in hockey

maybe yea, I mean it is a long time, but why on earth would you expect to get away with ghosting in spec? it just seems a little odd

the tripping analogy does not make sense in this context because the trip itself allowed for the three pointer to be shot, whereas the spec itself had no advantage whatsoever. also we should be grateful he’s only banned for a month for making a mistake? how at all is that fair for a mistake?
edit: i’m stupid

A stupid comparison that someone said earlier in this thread and does not relate to this situation.
Like I said in my other post, bans like this need to take into account context and the impact it has.

In hockey, if you trip another player, that always has an immediate impact on the play going on at that moment. It is penalized properly and not with a month ban for every tripping call. Nobody said there should be no punishment, but it should fit the offense and this example is weak.
Who the fuck in basketball got suspended for shooting the ball after the shot clock ran out? I'd like to know and read about it.

Rules should be followed and enforced. In some cases examples need to be made to make sure all players are on the level.
If this situation turns out to be recurring with several teams and happens over and over then a league-wide statement of no tolerance is warranted. Let the bans fly after that but reviewing the evidence in this "one-off" case doesn't link up with a 1 month ban.

u guys cant read LOL how can u not tell clockwork is being sarcastic

also imo: overturn the round but don't ban him. what is the point of banning him if there's no possible way he got any advantage from it (since the match got overturned it actually caused him to lose)

I'm a bit biased when it comes to this thread (Jacohi is a friend and teammate), but I think it's fair to point out that admins can look tough towards disallowed actions and be consistent while still being considerate to the circumstances of the situation. If we want to extend the analogy of sports, most fouls in most sports don't see the player get banned from the league; there exists penalties that reward the other team or give the player a warning, with repeated actions causing ejection or serious repercussions on the league side. The exception to this is if the player does something flagrant, which, as the POV and testimony demonstrates, there exists reasonable doubt towards.

In other words, I think a match overturn is reasonable. RGL has a system of warnings and a probation role that they can (and do) give to people, which puts them under close watch and gives them extended punishment for any rules broken. Nuking Jacohi before even looking at the POV/collecting evidence is not fair.

If the match remains overturned, people would still be disincentivized to ghost from spec if that's the expected minimum response.

guys im starting to think rgl is bad