Good evening and happy 4th of July weekend, hope everyone had a good Friday. I'm here to talk about instance #467 of RGL admin incompetency.
https://i.gyazo.com/455cee109863a59df11ffe49a97fb86b.png
I'm not gonna talk about the minor warnings cause those are fair - just the major.
Context: Our medic, seeds, is in the stressful position of being both an EU player playing in NA and having to med for sandblast. On the night of the match in question (us getting steamrolled by witness) he was exhausted and after some rough scrims he decided he wasn't gonna play the match. We asked around to find a med ringer but of course most people were in matches and we couldn't get anyone, so we got kev, who is a NEET, and thus, always available. In some previous nights we'd rang kev medic and our team leader, sandblast, had previously described his med as "dogshit" and some other unkind adjectives. With this in mind sandblast himself volunteered to med, taking this great burden upon himself. So now we (the #3 team - considered by many to be #4 due to disrespect), are going up against the undoubtedly #2 team without our 1. top level medic and 2. combo scout who topfrags most games.
Let's be real guys, I don't think a single soul thought we were gonna win this match. No viewer, caster, or person in the server. RGL really wanted to cast that match for some unknown reason, and there are penalties for forfeiting/not playing scheduled RGL casted matches, so what choice did we have but to play with ringers.
One of the criticisms of the bottom main level admin who determined we were match fixing was that we ran a sniper to mid on process. I'm sure for most TF2 players that point doesn't need further elaboration, we've all watched LAN process games. Another criticism was that we (apparently - I didn't even notice it happened) ran 2 snipers during a last hold. In case you thought this was an issue because of rule breaking - no, this is perfectly legal. In fact, for a long time double sniper was banned due to how broken it was on certain last holds, but the admin in question is probably newer than that rule change.
I'll try not to waste too many words but to sum up why that game was so fast - our comms were dogshit since we had 2 big roster changes + me who was still new to the team. It really shouldn't be surprising that that match was a steamroll and I don't think getting rolled has ever been punishable.
Good evening and happy 4th of July weekend, hope everyone had a good Friday. I'm here to talk about instance #467 of RGL admin incompetency.
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/455cee109863a59df11ffe49a97fb86b.png[/img]
I'm not gonna talk about the minor warnings cause those are fair - just the major.
Context: Our medic, seeds, is in the stressful position of being both an EU player playing in NA and having to med for sandblast. On the night of the match in question (us getting steamrolled by witness) he was exhausted and after some rough scrims he decided he wasn't gonna play the match. We asked around to find a med ringer but of course most people were in matches and we couldn't get anyone, so we got kev, who is a NEET, and thus, always available. In some previous nights we'd rang kev medic and our team leader, sandblast, had previously described his med as "dogshit" and some other unkind adjectives. With this in mind sandblast himself volunteered to med, taking this great burden upon himself. So now we (the #3 team - considered by many to be #4 due to disrespect), are going up against the undoubtedly #2 team without our 1. top level medic and 2. combo scout who topfrags most games.
Let's be real guys, I don't think a single soul thought we were gonna win this match. No viewer, caster, or person in the server. RGL really wanted to cast that match for some unknown reason, and there are penalties for forfeiting/not playing scheduled RGL casted matches, so what choice did we have but to play with ringers.
One of the criticisms of the bottom main level admin who determined we were match fixing was that we ran a sniper to mid on process. I'm sure for most TF2 players that point doesn't need further elaboration, we've all watched LAN process games. Another criticism was that we (apparently - I didn't even notice it happened) ran 2 snipers during a last hold. In case you thought this was an issue because of rule breaking - no, this is perfectly legal. In fact, for a long time double sniper was banned due to how broken it was on certain last holds, but the admin in question is probably newer than that rule change.
I'll try not to waste too many words but to sum up why that game was so fast - our comms were dogshit since we had 2 big roster changes + me who was still new to the team. It really shouldn't be surprising that that match was a steamroll and I don't think getting rolled has ever been punishable.
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/28a7047e9bbd6d2d7cf0756a193dafd6.png[/img]
I guess the unfortunate truth about the "match fixing" rule is unless there's literal text proof of planning the throw, punishments put in place will be a judgement call.
With that said, whoever made the judgement call that this was a thrown match is either severely ignorant, or severely biased.
- Sandblast said in interviews prior that week they were unable to scrim hardly at all. This is shown in their logs.
- Phlps is new to the team, and is offclassing
- Kev likely had no idea he was going to need to play a match
- Sandblast, their carry player, is forced to offclass on medic
No fucking wonder they lost in 7 minutes. Can you see throwing teams run an excess of sniper? Yes, but excess sniper doesn't inherently mean they're throwing, whether it's last or mid. I casted the damn thing and at no point did I think to myself "they're trying to lose as quickly as possible", even if given the circumstances they expect to lose.
Aren't these types of things supposed to be greenlit by exa? Or whoever? I refuse to believe more than 1 person are responsible for decisions like these.
I guess the unfortunate truth about the "match fixing" rule is unless there's literal text proof of planning the throw, punishments put in place will be a judgement call.
With that said, whoever made the judgement call that this was a thrown match is either severely ignorant, or severely biased.
- Sandblast said in interviews prior that week they were unable to scrim hardly at all. This is shown in their logs.
- Phlps is new to the team, and is offclassing
- Kev likely had no idea he was going to need to play a match
- Sandblast, their carry player, is forced to offclass on medic
No fucking wonder they lost in 7 minutes. Can you see throwing teams run an excess of sniper? Yes, but excess sniper doesn't inherently mean they're throwing, whether it's last [i]or[/i] mid. I casted the damn thing and at no point did I think to myself "they're trying to lose as quickly as possible", even if given the circumstances they expect to lose.
Aren't these types of things supposed to be greenlit by exa? Or whoever? I refuse to believe more than 1 person are responsible for decisions like these.
Jarrett000Aren't these types of things supposed to be greenlit by exa? Or whoever? I refuse to believe more than 1 person are responsible for decisions like these.
Funny you'd say that
https://i.gyazo.com/86316ff050de3a39ff3583cd4228f275.png
"my decision"
[quote=Jarrett000]
Aren't these types of things supposed to be greenlit by exa? Or whoever? I refuse to believe more than 1 person are responsible for decisions like these.[/quote]
Funny you'd say that
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/86316ff050de3a39ff3583cd4228f275.png[/img]
"my decision"
All this drama caused by the departure of SOOOOOAPYMEiSTER...
All this drama caused by the departure of SOOOOOAPYMEiSTER...
https://imgur.com/gallery/AtCPmUa
Am I crazy to think "match throwing" shouldnt be considered the same as "match fixing"?. I get RGL doesnt want high level teams throwing a casted match and wasting everyones time, but I still dont think it should be on the same level as "fixing" a match. Maybe comparing it to manslaughter vs murder is a bit extreme or not appropriate, but its what comes to my mind immediately. People throwing a pug (and even a match) b/c their hotpockets didnt cook just right or some BS is unfortunately a common experience of mine. Its also less likely that people want to fix a tf2 match, there really isnt a whole lot of opportunity to make money or whatever, unlike CSGO for instance. idk man, im just another shitty open player so my thoughts prob dont matter
tldr: RGL bad
Am I crazy to think "match throwing" shouldnt be considered the same as "match fixing"?. I get RGL doesnt want high level teams throwing a casted match and wasting everyones time, but I still dont think it should be on the same level as "fixing" a match. Maybe comparing it to manslaughter vs murder is a bit extreme or not appropriate, but its what comes to my mind immediately. People throwing a pug (and even a match) b/c their hotpockets didnt cook just right or some BS is unfortunately a common experience of mine. Its also less likely that people want to fix a tf2 match, there really isnt a whole lot of opportunity to make money or whatever, unlike CSGO for instance. idk man, im just another shitty open player so my thoughts prob dont matter
tldr: RGL bad
Yeah at this point no need to rehash other stupid penalties, intricacies, bullshit, and individual decisions they have done to other teams and will continue to do. Just know you guys fucking suck.
The reece pyro frag video is gonna be pretty sick though..
Yeah at this point no need to rehash other stupid penalties, intricacies, bullshit, and individual decisions they have done to other teams and will continue to do. Just know you guys fucking suck.
The reece pyro frag video is gonna be pretty sick though..
they also happen to have a bald faced vendetta against ur circlejerk so there's that
they also happen to have a bald faced vendetta against ur circlejerk so there's that
[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/029/477/It's_All_So_Tiresome.png[/img]
Hope to see signups for the BILLDOZER cup start filling up soon.
Hope to see signups for the BILLDOZER cup start filling up soon.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/yvIPEBQ.png[/img]
i played medic and we had no main caller because seeds had to go cuz he has commitments in the mornings now so we tried something and it failed. if we were going to throw we would of just ffl'ed and did something else that evening. we happened to get steam rolled. no offence to the newer invite teams but I have seen froyo 5-0 teams in about 15 min a bunch of times is that considered throwing. we barely prepared for the match and seeds had to go but ill hold my warning with pride.
i played medic and we had no main caller because seeds had to go cuz he has commitments in the mornings now so we tried something and it failed. if we were going to throw we would of just ffl'ed and did something else that evening. we happened to get steam rolled. no offence to the newer invite teams but I have seen froyo 5-0 teams in about 15 min a bunch of times is that considered throwing. we barely prepared for the match and seeds had to go but ill hold my warning with pride.
Proof provided by the Invite admin (who is 2-12 in Main):
- you can see it in the logs (????)
- sniper to mid (guess I've been throwing for the past 12 years of TF2)
- ignoring cap pressure (what?)
- fast rolling out
- sniping last
- falling back when losing a player
On top of that we are being asked to PROVE that we didn't throw when the proof of burden is on them. I guess GCI beating witness 5-0 in 15 min must've been match fixing and throwing too for GCI to make playoffs? Mustard running into a sniper on viaduct, THROWING? But God forbid you don't show up for a casted match, that's an even more severe punishment and you get banned, so you better hope you can scramble a ringer and the ringer performs.
Please take ire off the admin team, I will literally pay $40 a month for the next Invite admin to just do his job. $40 a season is a crime to have a guy who also has TFTV admin powertrip in the top div of a league.
Proof provided by the Invite admin (who is 2-12 in Main):
- you can see it in the logs (????)
- sniper to mid (guess I've been throwing for the past 12 years of TF2)
- ignoring cap pressure (what?)
- fast rolling out
- sniping last
- falling back when losing a player
On top of that we are being asked to PROVE that we didn't throw when the proof of burden is on them. I guess GCI beating witness 5-0 in 15 min must've been match fixing and throwing too for GCI to make playoffs? Mustard running into a sniper on viaduct, THROWING? But God forbid you don't show up for a casted match, that's an even more severe punishment and you get banned, so you better hope you can scramble a ringer and the ringer performs.
Please take ire off the admin team, I will literally pay $40 a month for the next Invite admin to just do his job. $40 a season is a crime to have a guy who also has TFTV admin powertrip in the top div of a league.
alfaMustard running into a sniper on viaduct, THROWING?
It was Step One.
[quote=alfa]Mustard running into a sniper on viaduct, THROWING?[/quote]
It was Step One.
its only post #16 and the thread is already nearing critical mass for a mustard/alfa fight
its only post #16 and the thread is already nearing critical mass for a mustard/alfa fight
brodyits only post #16 and the thread is already nearing critical mass for a mustard/alfa fight
quiet brody
[quote=brody]its only post #16 and the thread is already nearing critical mass for a mustard/alfa fight[/quote]
quiet [i]brody[/i]
i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents
i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents
Like... The only thing that I could even possibly accept from that match as possible throwing is when they accidentally ran double sniper on last (alfa + kev spawned on sniper at the same time and played in both spawn doors [LINK]). However, even if this was the case, typically what would happen is that if this double sniper had impact on a round and led to a round win for Ford, that round or the match in general would then be overturned, not counted as throwing or whatever because you can do this without throwing, shocking I know.
Delving a little bit deeper into this double sniper and how we can see if the snipers even had some sort of impact. When the snipers were both up, alfa was the only one to take a shot and possibly force Witness as they walked through the 4 Door in lobby, using uber in the process. If we want to believe that they actually wanted to milk through this door and not use but had to due to sniper, then sure that can be argued, but typically you tend to pop through this doorway to ensure nobody dies to traps and the like. Kev on the other hand had not taken a shot until after alfa was off sniper, he missed and Witness capped the point nearly instantly, so neither sniper even slowed this push and their impact on this fight can be seen as minimal-to-none as the same outcome came out of it, Ford lost the round (Also if we try to argue that Witness rotated to lobby due to seeing kev sniper, ash only saw alfa on sniper who took the first shot at him, that is what most likely caused a rotate if they weren't already planning to go through lobby anyways).
Show Content
TL;DR: These snipers had no impact on the round nor the game, so them being double sniper shouldn't even be punished. Every other reason provided by phlps and alfa for how they were possibly throwing is frivolous at best and laughably stupid at not even the worst. Just overturn the major penalty man this is incredibly embarrassing how RGL continues to fuck up this hard.
Like... The only thing that I could even possibly accept from that match as possible throwing is when they accidentally ran double sniper on last (alfa + kev spawned on sniper at the same time and played in both spawn doors [[url=https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1066792269?t=00h46m29s]LINK[/url]]). However, even if this was the case, typically what would happen is that if this double sniper had impact on a round and led to a round win for Ford, that round or the match in general would then be overturned, not counted as throwing or whatever because you can do this without throwing, shocking I know.
Delving a little bit deeper into this double sniper and how we can see if the snipers even had some sort of impact. When the snipers were both up, alfa was the only one to take a shot and possibly force Witness as they walked through the 4 Door in lobby, using uber in the process. If we want to believe that they actually wanted to milk through this door and not use but had to due to sniper, then sure that can be argued, but typically you tend to pop through this doorway to ensure nobody dies to traps and the like. Kev on the other hand had not taken a shot until after alfa was off sniper, he missed and Witness capped the point nearly instantly, so neither sniper even slowed this push and their impact on this fight can be seen as minimal-to-none as the same outcome came out of it, Ford lost the round (Also if we try to argue that Witness rotated to lobby due to seeing kev sniper, ash only saw alfa on sniper who took the first shot at him, that is what most likely caused a rotate if they weren't already planning to go through lobby anyways).
[spoiler]TL;DR: These snipers had no impact on the round nor the game, so them being double sniper shouldn't even be punished. Every other reason provided by phlps and alfa for how they were possibly throwing is frivolous at best and laughably stupid at not even the worst. Just overturn the major penalty man this is incredibly embarrassing how RGL continues to fuck up this hard.[/spoiler]
Right I got something GOLD. for context we are going into an rgl match in IM both of us are mid IM teams. med is currently on vacation so we need a ringer to play for us. Darty (IM scout main) volunteers to play MEDIC for us. our last ringer was an advanced ringer so he got denied (which is within the rules), however the other team denied this ringer. now for extra context the team lead on the other team is buddies with an rgl admin, and according to him he said the denial was validated by the admins in DM's. now unless admins get into match comms and communicate that shit it doesn't apply to the match. admins never posted that shit 4 days ago.
https://imgur.com/4nhr7ER
https://imgur.com/1M9olZm
during the match timing they kept claiming to have a valid argument for why he should not be allowed to play MEDIC ON KOTH BAGEL, so our TL's started DM'ing each other and here's the screenshots for that.
https://imgur.com/Z1zzimc
https://imgur.com/g32I0M5
https://imgur.com/C47GeZx
so at around the same time these DM's are happening i decide to take the initiative for my team and contact an admin through a support ticket. NOW keep in mind this entire time DARTY IS PLAYING MEDIC, he is (according to RGL's very own rulebook) allowed to ring for match's in AM on medic.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jfp2o6X4m0zdrX50kZ5YNsrvBANqxfDb-nEsRBb1wh0/view#heading=h.p0j0aqcb6ms6
https://imgur.com/ZuZGdS5
https://imgur.com/ibSzNR4
https://imgur.com/b68P3tg
https://imgur.com/w2gNzlx
https://imgur.com/LUB2mpW
https://imgur.com/QLYvVAn
https://imgur.com/huQpJFF
Overall this entire situation is pathetic and stupid. the rule book was thrown at us ignoring the actual rules and we lost because the admin "dm'ed" that player to okay the deny. darty is on a playoffs IM team ringing for an IM match. he falls within the definitions of a "default ringer"
Right I got something GOLD. for context we are going into an rgl match in IM both of us are mid IM teams. med is currently on vacation so we need a ringer to play for us. Darty (IM scout main) volunteers to play MEDIC for us. our last ringer was an advanced ringer so he got denied (which is within the rules), however the other team denied this ringer. now for extra context the team lead on the other team is buddies with an rgl admin, and according to him he said the denial was validated by the admins in DM's. now unless admins get into match comms and communicate that shit it doesn't apply to the match. admins never posted that shit 4 days ago.
https://imgur.com/4nhr7ER
https://imgur.com/1M9olZm
during the match timing they kept claiming to have a valid argument for why he should not be allowed to play MEDIC ON KOTH BAGEL, so our TL's started DM'ing each other and here's the screenshots for that.
https://imgur.com/Z1zzimc
https://imgur.com/g32I0M5
https://imgur.com/C47GeZx
so at around the same time these DM's are happening i decide to take the initiative for my team and contact an admin through a support ticket. NOW keep in mind this entire time DARTY IS PLAYING MEDIC, he is (according to RGL's very own rulebook) allowed to ring for match's in AM on medic.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jfp2o6X4m0zdrX50kZ5YNsrvBANqxfDb-nEsRBb1wh0/view#heading=h.p0j0aqcb6ms6
https://imgur.com/ZuZGdS5
https://imgur.com/ibSzNR4
https://imgur.com/b68P3tg
https://imgur.com/w2gNzlx
https://imgur.com/LUB2mpW
https://imgur.com/QLYvVAn
https://imgur.com/huQpJFF
Overall this entire situation is pathetic and stupid. the rule book was thrown at us ignoring the actual rules and we lost because the admin "dm'ed" that player to okay the deny. darty is on a playoffs IM team ringing for an IM match. he falls within the definitions of a "default ringer"
how can u call sniper to mid throwing when it has literally been done multiple times in the grand finals to international lans
why do bad players get to make judgement calls about how high invite teams decide to play the game
how can u call sniper to mid throwing when it has literally been done multiple times in the grand finals to international lans
why do bad players get to make judgement calls about how high invite teams decide to play the game
Did you appeal yet? I'm curious if RGL would walk back their decision or double down.
Did you appeal yet? I'm curious if RGL would walk back their decision or double down.
plumDid you appeal yet? I'm curious if RGL would walk back their decision or double down.
the ffw has not gone through yet i asked for them to either re-book the match or get scream the head admin for im to look into it
[quote=plum]Did you appeal yet? I'm curious if RGL would walk back their decision or double down.[/quote]
the ffw has not gone through yet i asked for them to either re-book the match or get scream the head admin for im to look into it
b0nes_NAstuff
How is an Intermediate player not allowed to ring Medic in Intermediate when players like kurama and Knuckles have played Medic for an entire season in Amateur?
[quote=b0nes_NA]stuff[/quote]
How is an Intermediate player not allowed to ring Medic in Intermediate when players like kurama and Knuckles have played Medic for an entire season in Amateur?
Air_i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.
[quote=Air_]i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents[/quote]
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.
sunderkeeninAir_i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.
it'll never change because they don't believe they're making bad decisions
[quote=sunderkeenin][quote=Air_]i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents[/quote]
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.[/quote]
it'll never change because they don't believe they're making bad decisions
illyasunderkeeninAir_i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.
it'll never change because they don't believe they're making bad decisions
that's the other implication yes. Their dog can only eat their homework so many times before it's just a matter of the admins are bad, and they crossed that when they set metal footsteps as explicitly permitted but "use at your own risk"(aka don't stream or record anything but demos and nobody will care) if you reread the rules, and honestly I'd say they crossed it long before this myself, but stuff like that is just so blatant.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847659029971206155/860814679756898314/unknown.png
[quote=illya][quote=sunderkeenin][quote=Air_]i enjoy how every bad decision at rgl is traceable to the same 2-3 incompetents[/quote]
and we also know it'll never change.
Pretty much every time RGL makes a bad decision they "rushed it" or "didn't follow their own internal policy for handling situations" or some other "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, maybe they should get rid of the people who make sure that happens without fail almost every time.[/quote]
it'll never change because they don't believe they're making bad decisions[/quote]
that's the other implication yes. Their dog can only eat their homework so many times before it's just a matter of the admins are bad, and they crossed that when they set metal footsteps as explicitly permitted but "use at your own risk"(aka don't stream or record anything but demos and nobody will care) if you reread the rules, and honestly I'd say they crossed it long before this myself, but stuff like that is just so blatant.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847659029971206155/860814679756898314/unknown.png[/img]
so is the problem that even if you guys made your own league, are you afraid that people like froyo won't play it because there's no money or what? cuz i know most of you guys are still playing tf2 just for fun and not for money so i'm failing to see the roadblocks to making your own league for tf2
so is the problem that even if you guys made your own league, are you afraid that people like froyo won't play it because there's no money or what? cuz i know most of you guys are still playing tf2 just for fun and not for money so i'm failing to see the roadblocks to making your own league for tf2
Can we have rgl admins that are invite players and not below that div
Can we have rgl admins that are invite players and not below that div