Epochit'd be one thing if it was a girl team with girl names and the clearly conflicting "girls can do it too!" strategy, but why does the team's name have to be foreplay?(fourpl4y) isn't it already sexy enough?
A male team with the name fourpl4y wouldn't be an issue. I think you're thinking about this backward.
[quote=Epoch]it'd be one thing if it was a girl team with girl names and the clearly conflicting "girls can do it too!" strategy, but why does the team's name have to be foreplay?(fourpl4y) isn't it already sexy enough?[/quote]
A male team with the name fourpl4y wouldn't be an issue. I think you're thinking about this backward.
And the Team Siren LoL team disbanded because the players were fed up with all the hate they were getting.
Good old sexism wins again. Maybe if you keep up the shitlordery you can convince the HRG COD team to quit too?
And the Team Siren LoL team disbanded because the players were fed up with all the hate they were getting.
Good old sexism wins again. Maybe if you keep up the shitlordery you can convince the HRG COD team to quit too?
all of those kitchen jokes in the siren videos make me want to vomit
all of those kitchen jokes in the siren videos make me want to vomit
#62
If women want to be taken seriously, they need to stop allowing themselves to be presented as novelties on all-female teams. They play games online, they know how people are, they still agreed to be a boob collection team. If it was about just playing with friends who happen to be girls and not shit at the game, that'd be kind of different. But men and women in competitive gaming are participating in segregation of the sexes and then wondering why sexism in video games is such an issue.
#62
If women want to be taken seriously, they need to stop allowing themselves to be presented as novelties on all-female teams. They play games online, they know how people are, they still agreed to be a boob collection team. If it was about just playing with friends who happen to be girls and not shit at the game, that'd be kind of different. But men and women in competitive gaming are participating in segregation of the sexes and then wondering why sexism in video games is such an issue.
Yes, you're completely right. If those silly girls want to be taken SERIOUSLY like real professional e-sports gaming athletes they should stop acting like "novelties" and act more like normal gamers (aka nerdy white/asian guys). Man, why did they even admit to being girls? They should have just used voice-changers and male aliases instead of pissing off all the honest, hard-working gamer guys out there with their attention whoring female ways. I mean, a pro-circuit literally dominated by all-male teams isn't segregation, but as soon as there's a female team I guess it is?
How dare Team Siren act differently.
>they know how people are
Yeah, I guess I just forgot that it's just the natural status quo for people to be sexists. Hopefully Team Siren will soon apologize for this massive oversight on their part. What a noob mistake, to just, like, assume that people wouldn't be sexist assholes. The sheer audacity of putting all those girls on one team! Didn't they realize that it would make them into a "boob collection"? Why didn't they think of the guy gamers. WHY
Yes, you're completely right. If those silly girls want to be taken SERIOUSLY like real professional e-sports gaming athletes they should stop acting like "novelties" and act more like normal gamers (aka nerdy white/asian guys). Man, why did they even admit to being girls? They should have just used voice-changers and male aliases instead of pissing off all the honest, hard-working gamer guys out there with their attention whoring female ways. I mean, a pro-circuit literally dominated by all-male teams isn't segregation, but as soon as there's a female team I guess it is?
How dare Team Siren act differently.
>they know how people are
Yeah, I guess I just forgot that it's just the natural status quo for people to be sexists. Hopefully Team Siren will soon apologize for this massive oversight on their part. What a noob mistake, to just, like, assume that people wouldn't be sexist assholes. The sheer audacity of putting all those girls on one team! Didn't they realize that it would make them into a "boob collection"? Why didn't they think of the guy gamers. WHY
This is gonna get ugly quick... so a Thought Experiment for you...
Let's assume two things first: That everybody is human, and humans are inherently biased against various things. It's practically impossible to remove all bias of gender because it is impossible to be naturally male and naturally female in the same lifetime*. That out of the way, here's the experiment:
Make a eSports team composed randomly of male and female members, give them androgynous aliases and seclude them from contact with other players outside of matches and scrims (no pugs or pubs!). Since you cannot determine gender by the usual methods of visual/audio confirmation, you only have their gameplay to go off of. Would you, after observing this team for a full season, be able to correctly determine the gender of each player?
* -
Show Content
Granted, it is possible to undergo Gender Reassignment. However, for the sake of this experiment, we're only taking into account the fact that it's impossible for a man to get pregnant and a girl to impregnate someone with her own DNA.
This is gonna get ugly quick... so a Thought Experiment for you...
Let's assume two things first: That everybody is human, and humans are inherently biased against various things. It's practically impossible to remove all bias of gender because it is impossible to be naturally male and naturally female in the same lifetime*. That out of the way, here's the experiment:
Make a eSports team composed randomly of male and female members, give them androgynous aliases and seclude them from contact with other players outside of matches and scrims (no pugs or pubs!). Since you cannot determine gender by the usual methods of visual/audio confirmation, you only have their gameplay to go off of. Would you, after observing this team for a full season, be able to correctly determine the gender of each player?
* - [spoiler]Granted, it is possible to undergo Gender Reassignment. However, for the sake of this experiment, we're only taking into account the fact that it's impossible for a man to get pregnant and a girl to impregnate someone with her own DNA.[/spoiler]
I feel like you inserted your own meaning into my words. I never said being a girl is bad. I don't want to be that guy--or girl--but I am a girl who plays video games, so I feel that I'm a little more qualified to call out female novelty bullshit for what it is: female novelty bullshit. I don't even like people knowing my sex because it will in fact change how some people respond to me. Am I at fault for being a girl? No. But I know better than to flaunt it because a person's sex shouldn't matter, which is the basis of most of my sexism arguments.
I think you know as well as I do that Team Siren wasn't JUST girls having fun, it was marketed with the tagline, "LOOK, LOOK AT THESE WOMEN, VAGINAS N STUFF." To me, that's insulting. I really would like to see a notable competitive female player who is more known for their gameplay than being a goddamn girl. The most famous female Dota player I have heard of is Sheever, and she's...huh, what do you know, she's known for her shitty ravages on Tidehunter, and for being probably one out of two total female caster. How disappointing.
There's definitely more nationalities involved than just "nerdy Asian/white guys" by the way. NA'VI? Ukranian team. Tagg, -Sal, ixmike88? They're pretty brown, dude.
I feel like you inserted your own meaning into my words. I never said being a girl is bad. I don't want to be that guy--or girl--but I am a girl who plays video games, so I feel that I'm a little more qualified to call out female novelty bullshit for what it is: female novelty bullshit. I don't even like people knowing my sex because it will in fact change how some people respond to me. Am I at fault for being a girl? No. But I know better than to flaunt it because a person's sex shouldn't matter, which is the basis of most of my sexism arguments.
I think you know as well as I do that Team Siren wasn't JUST girls having fun, it was marketed with the tagline, "LOOK, LOOK AT THESE WOMEN, VAGINAS N STUFF." To me, that's insulting. I really would like to see a notable competitive female player who is more known for their gameplay than being a goddamn girl. The most famous female Dota player I have heard of is Sheever, and she's...huh, what do you know, she's known for her shitty ravages on Tidehunter, and for being probably one out of two total female caster. How disappointing.
There's definitely more nationalities involved than just "nerdy Asian/white guys" by the way. NA'VI? Ukranian team. Tagg, -Sal, ixmike88? They're pretty brown, dude.
The only way that an appeal to commercial profiteering can be used to discredit Team Siren if you acknowledge that there's already a gender normative bias in play. That the userbase is masculine and that popular feminine images are consumed in the way you described. Surely there must be something wrong with that? And I'm pretty sure that they aren't marketing themselves on the basis of their sexuality, if anyone here is inserting meaning into other people's words (or rather, re-interpreting their intentions) it's the people making that assumption. Oh look, girls. I guess they're just exploiting the convention of sexual objectification for their own gains. Not a projection of any of my own (or the userbase's collective) inherent desires at all.
The only way that an appeal to commercial profiteering can be used to discredit Team Siren if you acknowledge that there's already a gender normative bias in play. That the userbase is masculine and that popular feminine images are consumed in the way you described. Surely there must be something wrong with that? And I'm pretty sure that they aren't marketing themselves on the basis of their sexuality, if anyone here is inserting meaning into other people's words (or rather, re-interpreting their intentions) it's the people making that assumption. Oh look, girls. I guess they're just exploiting the convention of sexual objectification for their own gains. Not a projection of any of my own (or the userbase's collective) inherent desires at all.
Renhet#62
If women want to be taken seriously, they need to stop allowing themselves to be presented as novelties on all-female teams. They play games online, they know how people are, they still agreed to be a boob collection team. If it was about just playing with friends who happen to be girls and not shit at the game, that'd be kind of different. But men and women in competitive gaming are participating in segregation of the sexes and then wondering why sexism in video games is such an issue.
And maybe this team DOES just happen to be all-female because these women just happen to like playing with each other. Who are you to determine why they're playing with each other? Do you know them? Did you go to school with one of them? Do you hang out in their mumble secretly overnight and hear all kinds of misandrist talk about trying to show those mean COD boys their place? Have they flashed their breasts to you as a distraction?
Your argument that an all-female team promotes segregation is hilariously weak when a majority of competitive teams are already all-male, and I guarantee you some of those men do not want a female player on their team. There have been cases of women playing in teams merely for show, but only because team sponsors try to push them out for extra support and viewers. That's not the woman's fault; she just wants to play her favorite game, yet a system run by men makes them easy to exploit. And now we have an all-female team for a popular game that's being sponsored by a respected organization and you say they're only there to be shit at the game.
You are right that sexism in video games is an issue, but you've got it entirely backwards and I desperately hope you do not work in any sort of industry that has similar issues with representing and respecting women. How should we really get past this problem? By treating an all-female esports team as boring news and as no big deal.
%40 of the gaming population is female. That number is quickly approaching %50. Why should we be so surprised by teams filled with women? Are you offended because your games now smell more flowery?
Believe me, there are a few women out there who will refuse to play with men which also does not help us pass this barrier, but I can't say I blame them when there's less of a chance of hearing blatant sexism and rape jokes in your ear whenever you play. So, my friend, relax, your playground hasn't been tainted and these women literally have no impact on your life. Girls just wanna have fun.
[quote=Renhet]#62
If women want to be taken seriously, they need to stop allowing themselves to be presented as novelties on all-female teams. They play games online, they know how people are, they still agreed to be a boob collection team. If it was about just playing with friends who happen to be girls and not shit at the game, that'd be kind of different. But men and women in competitive gaming are participating in segregation of the sexes and then wondering why sexism in video games is such an issue.[/quote]
And maybe this team DOES just happen to be all-female because these women just happen to like playing with each other. Who are you to determine why they're playing with each other? Do you know them? Did you go to school with one of them? Do you hang out in their mumble secretly overnight and hear all kinds of misandrist talk about trying to show those mean COD boys their place? Have they flashed their breasts to you as a distraction?
Your argument that an all-female team promotes segregation is hilariously weak when a majority of competitive teams are already all-male, and I guarantee you some of those men do not want a female player on their team. There have been cases of women playing in teams merely for show, but only because team sponsors try to push them out for extra support and viewers. That's not the woman's fault; she just wants to play her favorite game, yet a system run by men makes them easy to exploit. And now we have an all-female team for a popular game that's being sponsored by a respected organization and you say they're only there to be shit at the game.
You are right that sexism in video games is an issue, but you've got it entirely backwards and I desperately hope you do not work in any sort of industry that has similar issues with representing and respecting women. How should we really get past this problem? [b]By treating an all-female esports team as boring news and as no big deal.[/b]
%40 of the gaming population is female. That number is quickly approaching %50. Why should we be so surprised by teams filled with women? Are you offended because your games now smell more flowery?
Believe me, there are a few women out there who will refuse to play with men which also does not help us pass this barrier, but I can't say I blame them when there's less of a chance of hearing blatant sexism and rape jokes in your ear whenever you play. So, my friend, relax, your playground hasn't been tainted and these women literally have no impact on your life. Girls just wanna have fun.
can someone destroy this thread?
can someone destroy this thread?
And maybe this team DOES just happen to be all-female because these women just happen to like playing with each other.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/8a3646a9adff9650ba919ee119c38447/tumblr_mgkvav83ec1rbvuseo1_500.jpg
[quote]And maybe this team DOES just happen to be all-female because these women just happen to like playing with each other.[/quote]
[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/8a3646a9adff9650ba919ee119c38447/tumblr_mgkvav83ec1rbvuseo1_500.jpg[/img]
#65 Did you even see the Team Siren video...
If a male team made a video like that, they'd get shit on for it too. It was mega bad. One of the team member's quit the team over just how bad it is, one of the other team members quit before the video because she had sex with their team manager and everyone found out, their ADC quit cause of how bad the vid and their support was and then it just snowballed from there.
I mean, I understand it kind of goes both ways you know, girls should be able to have zones where they can hang out with other girls just like guys have zones where they hang out with other guys, but when it comes to being treated equally on the competitive spectrum you do not accomplish that by segregating yourself apart from the other sex by acting all important because you have a vagina and get periods sometimes.
What they should have done was form the team, don't make a huge deal out of the fact that they are all girls, and just play the game - i.e.: what every other team does. There's absolutely zero reason to make an awful promo vid talking about how it's mega important to have a female team and how it is "bigger than us" to beat ~the guy gamers~. If they would have just played the game, done interviews/make videos/stream normally, no one would have gave them shit. Instead they acted like idiots and had a bad promo vid made so they're getting shit on, which is fair.
e:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gz9um3wV1o
seriously, it's awful. :/
#65 Did you even see the Team Siren video...
If a male team made a video like that, they'd get shit on for it too. It was mega bad. One of the team member's quit the team over just how bad it is, one of the other team members quit before the video because she had sex with their team manager and everyone found out, their ADC quit cause of how bad the vid and their support was and then it just snowballed from there.
I mean, I understand it kind of goes both ways you know, girls should be able to have zones where they can hang out with other girls just like guys have zones where they hang out with other guys, but when it comes to being treated equally on the competitive spectrum you do not accomplish that by segregating yourself apart from the other sex by acting all important because you have a vagina and get periods sometimes.
What they should have done was form the team, don't make a huge deal out of the fact that they are all girls, and just play the game - i.e.: what every other team does. There's absolutely zero reason to make an awful promo vid talking about how it's mega important to have a female team and how it is "bigger than us" to beat ~the guy gamers~. If they would have just played the game, done interviews/make videos/stream normally, no one would have gave them shit. Instead they acted like idiots and had a bad promo vid made so they're getting shit on, which is fair.
e:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gz9um3wV1o
seriously, it's awful. :/
paragraph
paragraph
argument
BOLD ARGUMENT
paragraph
paragraph
argument
[b]BOLD ARGUMENT[/b]
GET OUT THE TAPOUT SHIRTS
BUST OUT THE CODE RED
IT'S TIME TO MIX OUR 2 FAVORTE THINGS
TITS AND COD
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
GET OUT THE TAPOUT SHIRTS
BUST OUT THE CODE RED
IT'S TIME TO MIX OUR 2 FAVORTE THINGS
TITS AND COD
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I wish people just stop making girl teams have some emphasis that they are a girl team. Siren probably just wanted to play video games together without the bullshit. Also, how come teams never have a mix of boys and girls? That'd be great and completely normal. But what I dislike is how people treat other people unequally, just because they are girls doesn't mean they are people. If you're not racist, that's great, don't be a sexist either though. When people can actually get past a ignorant stage and start to look at others equally... gg america.
I wish people just stop making girl teams have some emphasis that they are a girl team. Siren probably just wanted to play video games together without the bullshit. Also, how come teams never have a mix of boys and girls? That'd be great and completely normal. But what I dislike is how people treat other people unequally, just because they are girls doesn't mean they are people. If you're not racist, that's great, don't be a sexist either though. When people can actually get past a ignorant stage and start to look at others equally... gg america.