When they fuck up all of the maps (ie locking off half of badwater), we can obviously just make badwater_pro or something, but when they nerf all of the weapons to shit what are we going to do...

I'm worried
last huge balancing of a weapon I remember is the equalizer

;_;

pls be careful valve

Which means they have to go to where the mini was destroyed to get enough metal to build another one, which is putting them in harm's way.

We'll just have to wait and see, and keep suggesting on the SPUF. They said this is an ongoing balance, so hopefully they do only a handful of weapons/maps at a time. Let the change come gradual instead of throwing 50 weapons all with new stats at once. Either way it's gonna be a fucking mess of updates.

Granted my time as an engie is limited, but standing in the same place against projectiles usually results in death, so picking up the bits against any type of coordinated attack I don't think is overly viable. I had envisioned dropping the mini and running, and when it gets killed and you are 100 feet away, you can't just drop another without getting some ammo.

If they are balancing around pubs, then they'll definitely have to nerf Demoman. Whenever you see decent players trying to win on a pub, they pick up multiple demos, with a light smattering of medics, soldiers and snipers.

If only they could make seperate verisons of the weapons for pubs and competitive, lol.

They touched my sandvich so I couldn't heal myself by throwing it down, and then they split apart my precious equalizer. I'm not sure if I want this update.

Why not just get balance opinions, discussions, ideas, etc from Platinum players instead of basing balance off of pubs where there is hardly any sort of balance? Knock out 2 birds in 1 stone I guess?

The set bonus update seems unnecessary. I think it'll just end up breaking a lot of weapons. The gunslinger and wrangler is gonna be nerfed I heard.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_r0UTMxKffHM/THibsdsqFYI/AAAAAAAAABI/NgDCeynRRRs/s1600/Heavy-Medic.png

Sorry what was that?

there is no reason you should be able to give yourself a health pack
and the old equalizer's damage boost was unnecessary

people still think this?

Demoman is limited to 1 because it's obvious it's a very specific and defensive class within the metagame. The game has been played competitively with 2 demos before and it was too stalematey, that's why it was changed, because the demo being a mostly defensive class would stale the game a lot if there were 2 on each teams.

Same way there is only 1 medic allowed, with 2 medics, both on uber the pace of the game would be a lot more slow and uninteresting. It has nothing to do with the class being over/underpowered.

Demoman (stock weapons) is a perfectly balanced class. It's hard enough as a demo being the one supposed to damage deal while being targeted at all times, if you nerf any of the stock demo weapons that would have a substancial impact in the metagame, not to talk about how useless the class already feels in close combat... There's nothing worst than going head to head with a scout while you are alone. that is a scary thing, because you know even if you aim everything perfectly the bastard will still dodge it, and because you have no hitscan weapons you have no reliable weapon to defend yourself without taking damage unless you use the melee.

if you sincerely believe the demoman is "balanced" then you haven't been looking at the same metagame everyone else on the planet is looking at

wut

If you're 1v1ing a scout, you've already made your mistake

and try hitting pipes

You do realize that cody "cond "dongs" uctor" roth is technically a platinum level player. I don't think these are the players we want shaping the future of the game.

I'm talking about close combat against other classes here. It's not useless obviously, but it sure feels a lot that way when you are getting toyed around by a scout

Are you really this dense? A lot of things happen in a game, you could be playing perfectly and still be left to a 1v1

Also, good try bro

my post still holds true

remember when having two demos was allowed, way back when

you can demo v demo mge? well shit mah nigga

This was so long ago when people were so bad at the game that teams considered running sniper instead of demo.

Demoman is inarguably the strongest class, but I doubt valve would touch the stock weapons.

No, I am just pissed that you are seriously telling me to hit pipes like it's a god damn scattergun when you have no idea of what you are talking about. Its not a RELIABLE weapon, it's a projectile weapon and it does not do damage on impact, it's pretty damn unreliable in close combat, you could be hitting everything in 1 minute and fending off a whole team and the next you find yourself missing your entire clip.
I would have some idea of what I'm talking or else I wouldn't have 500+ hours on demo.

Want to nerf demo weapons? sure, nerf pipes/stickies whatever and then give me a shotgun like the solly, oh how I will love to give something back to all those pesky scouts

Don't you have like 680 hours on this game? I haven't even seen you post here until the last few months.

What I mean is, the demoman is surely the strongest class for damage dealing purposes and when you look at the bigger picture, but if you were to take each class by itself, the demo is not that beast you all are trying to make. Put a demo 1v1 a scout or a solly of the same skill. I guarantee you the demo is gonna loose 90% of the time. Now put a demo with a solly 2v2 against 2 other sollies or a scout and solly, it's much more probable that the side with the demo will win. It's a very subjective and specific thing what you are talking about. The demo in the competitive metagame as a whole? Yes, it is the strongest class. Is it overpowered? No, not at all.

Sounds like you all essentially are in agreement but are still arguing for some reason. All of your points pretty much so far are true. Yeah demo is among the most powerful/valuable classes. Yeah he has incredible potential. Yeah he sucks in direct combat against most other classes. If you can foresee and correctly plan ahead with him then you're safe, but in battle shit happens and things don't go right. Oh how many times I've had my dick kicked in by a medic with a saw or w/e... I damage myself with pipes up close and he finishes me off and gets uber off me. If I show my bottle he'll just weapon heckle and fuck right off and run around a corner or just needle.

So... stop arguing.

This is very arguably not even true, and 1v1 considerations mean nothing when tf2 is a team game both in pubs, 6v6 and 9v9.

Not saying demoman is the only one who could use tweaks. Stacking heavies is pretty gay too, but stacking demos is how you win.

I don't know why there is so much argument and defense over if demoman is OP or not. Demoman is just fine the way he is. Like he has been for the past few years. Also Radman, if you're really complaining about pub demoman stacks, it's not really productive. If the enemy team can do it, you can do it too. There are more ways than one to counter a bunch of demomen. DR spy(well not anymore soon?), have more demoman, DH soldiers, and the most important, medics with ubercharge/kritz. It's a team-based game, in the end, and you can't really use a 1v1 situation in this game to prove a point. Engineer vs a Soldier, Soldier would win most likely, maybe we should nerf soldier based off of that logic? No!

We are argumenting because of our uncomfortable experiences as demoman or against them.

Who the fuck balances a team game around 1v1s?

yduscguirfuteygfhoweofuctwufyeguhfweuofwegfhuwefuwef god dammit.

one of the latest updates-that-did-something had a stock pyro buff

Just one demoman does a ton of work though. He may be balanced in 6s, but demoman is almost medic teir in HL. And in pubs, hes the one sure-fire way to make sure your team wins, other than medic ofc.