VTV has Arx and Beta and besides them literally zero good casters. "Try it yourself" isn't an argument, it's been said time and time again that you become a good caster by understanding the game and at the moment that's only Arx and Beta in VTV. And the difference in viewership is because of the casters, period. People don't enjoy watching Byte and Mia, because even though Byte isn't that bad, they're worse than anything TFTV would ever put on.

I have to say though, the production quality of VTV has been great. Though that's because of Arie (and in the past people like Skyride, BoneS and Torden if I'm not mistaken), not the people who get jumpy whenever someone critisises VTV.

When I was at school I'd open both streams. I don't have enough bandwidth at home to do that, though. I almost always pick tftv because of the casters.

I thought Vanilla relies on teams for teamcomms :(

well I was referring to the infrastructure to actually bring the comms to the cast. Of course its the teams decision at the end of the day whether they allow us to use it. Which you are a little bitch about ipz :P

Actually we were the first team to offer comms and insights :( edit: im sure you guys will make a good job at LAN :)

:) <3 :)

Pretty sure that was FakkelBrigade back in the ETF2L Radio days!

All prem teams have been absolutely amazing with their support for our casts this ETF2L season, makes me hopeful to have the same kind of stuff for i49.

ETF2L radio?! wtf is that, sounds like the time when div1 was the best division

Don't care who casts, as long as they're entertaining and free of bias. As casters should be.

I will add that we don't hold the opinion of JackyLegs (sorry dude, but frankly what you're saying is taking it too far) and wish the best to VTV in covering i49, as good coverage by SOMEONE will help both organizations and the scene in general.

Keep in mind, many of the TFTV EU and even TFTV NA staff are friends with VTV members. I personally want to see Lange and Sal do some work and am excited to see what VTV brings out of their arsenal of casters. More friendly competition is the best for growth. >:)

sounds like a cool idea to me

you seem to be terribly fond of propagating this bit of misinformation so let me just correct you here

the autoplaying of the stream on the front page typically accounts for < 30 viewers

it's not even enabled anymore anyways

Terribly fond? I mentioned it once on Powahs stream and was told it didn't happen. That night I checked for myself and the stream did autoplay and I've mentioned it again once in this thread. Maybe I have overestimated the traffic but 300 visiting the site, especially when they know a stream is going to happen, doesn't seem too outlandish to me.

VanillaTV getting less viewers because of worse casters doesn't seem too outlandish to me

Will tf.tv not be covering i49?

I'm sorry if I took it too far, I was just suggesting a cool idea, I thought it might be able to happen and wanted to see what you guys think about it, that's all..? people took it to places where I hate VTV or something, I just spoke my honest opinion and that's all.

Sorry.

All the stupid arguments aside, I like the idea of an American caster with a European caster. Really helps mix up the tempo of casting as well as obviously splitting up the bias.

you're not sorry

Hmmm... I wonder why, oh that's right

Don't apologize and then say something like that at the end where you try and justify yourself again, it just takes away the value of the apology

I think it would be great to see that, if another mixed casting pair could get the same chemistry that Admirable and DJC had with their great banter while casting I would be in love all over again. But I feel like a new duo like that would have to be practiced casting together for quite a while before they were shoved together if they wanted to cast some of the later high knockout stages of the competition, but yeah would be great if a mixed pair could cast some of the first rounds or things like lower bracket finals or consolation final or whatever it is you guys call it in euro tf2

There's a strong chance that at some point at the event, you will have a US commentator (or 2) casting a US match, in fact, I can almost guarantee it. The ministage is much more flexible in terms of the production, casters and streamers and so we can mix things up. If the community wants to hear a specific combination of casters for a specific game, by all means shout them out and we will take them into consideration and see what we can do for you!

The grand final isn't as simple. I won't go into the specifics, but there are some agreements in place and even so, VTV has been selected as the primary coverage provider for this event and naturally would want their own full-time staff to represent them on the main stage. You might not realize but our team works really hard behind the scenes for these events.

Everyone has their own taste in commentators so you can never keep everyone happy, but we hope even the haters will put their hate to the side for the benefit of TF2 at what will be our largest, most competitive event to date.

Hope you and Beta are casting the Grand finals Arx, I'm not used to euro casters that aren't you, Beta or Admirable

I feel like this is the third or fouth thread that's about vtv vs tv.eu, glad that the people that matters in the orgs are friendly, shame some people can't be like that :P

man people are really spoiled. Just be glad the games are actually being casted by good casters. VTV are amazing.

Even when I apologize, it's not good enough, really?
I didn't mean for this thread to become an argument thread, for real, all I said was my opinion, you can -frag me all you want, you can also not accept my apology, but for the love of gabe, stop making it look like I hate VTV.

I even said before that I enjoy their streams, I didn't say that I hate the organsation, maybe I dislike a caster there but that doesn't mean that the I hate the org.

I didn't try to justify what I said, everything I said was my hoesnt opinion.

I'm not asking for VTV to listen to me, I was just into a really cool idea, I wanted to share it with you guys, and then the arguments started to happen and I felt like just because I suggested something people think I hate someone, I was wrong by saying VTV is dying, it was just my point of view on it, you took it to places I didn't even mean it to get, and you keep bringing it up.

What else can I say? maybe look at the actual thing I suggested instead of -fragging me to death for apologizing?

Well you are all wrong, Matt Berry needs to cast this LAN best voice EU ... although Brian Blessed doing the big plays would be amazing.

Also given the original post it is perfectly suitable that Arx and Beta host the final, both represent the EU, so that is both sides of it covered.

or she should just get better? no one is saying casting is easy, or there would be more casters. but if anyone thinks she is actually really good is out of their mind.

i would rather listen to any prem/invite player cast a game with a good caster over someone who is not good and is not seeming to get any better.

edit: also, arx & beta are pretty damn good. there should be no complaints about i49 games that they cast...and VTV has never had poor production on the back end AFAIK

look, as long as really good casters are casting premier games, no matter what the level then i do not think many people care. but if i am suddenly casting at tri hards vs HRG game then there is a problem.

I can look at a drawing or painting and explain why I think it's bad without being able to replicate that drawing or painting myself. The argument that goes "Well if you think this person is bad at x, maybe you should just try x yourself" is abundantly silly in this (or really any) context. Not that I've seen Mia cast - I'm making no comment on the actual ability of the caster here, since I really don't know her at all. I'm only commenting on the quality of logic that #91 quoted.

But back on topic: looking forward to casting as much as possible at i49!

That's a dumb argument. If a doctor does an operation on me and it goes terribly wrong because he was a bad doctor, am I not allowed to complain because I couldn't have done the surgery any better? Yes, Mia is probably a way better caster than me. But that is besides the point, because overall she does not do a good job casting and is actually extremely distracting from the gameplay because it seems like she doesn't even know what is going on.

Even she doesn't think she is 'really good'. She's learning and it takes time. Not everyone is naturally good at commentating... I sure as hell wasn't. It's taken me 9 years of commentating (SC, CS, TF2) to get to where I am now, and a number of people still think I'm shit.

I wonder how many commentators there are that tried out a cast, got a tonne of abuse for how shit they are, and then never commentated again. Some of those could have been amazing casters with more practice.

It applies to the post above too. A doctor fresh out of medical school isn't automatically a great doctor. They need experience which takes time.