i made something similar, except it increased the charge rate of the normal uber by 50%, but decreased the duration by 50%. So you get it quicker, but have it for less time. i think the charge time was 20s, duration was 4s.

the consensus of the few of pug's we did was that it made the game faster paced and more exciting, which was the point. of course you can't balance something around 4 pugs, though.

this was kind of both on and off topic :p

I'm sorry?? :(
I've been watching 6s and following ESEA for 5 seasons now, so I thought I understood most of how it works. I know I'm probably way worse than any of you, but don't shun me, teach me. From the point of view of a HL player, 6s players (especially at this LAN) seem worse at techniques central to HL play. I guess this is because of some "higher level dodging" or something that you guys have (which sounds to me like more of that 6s elitism tbh). Not trying to sound like an idiot or come across as a dick, but why am I not allowed to assert my opinion? Are you afraid Valve will see it and agree with me or something? Tell me why I'm wrong instead of responding with "wat" and "silly HL player shut up" so I stop arguing with you.

We HL players really aren't the shitlords and dumbasses you guys think we are. All I'm trying to do is figure out why such a large group of people is ignoring something that's second-nature to me. I honestly doubt that invite players are better at dodging than the top HL Plat players. I don't know how ESEA-I demomen ever get kills because apparently medics are always focused on dodging stickies and don't think about anything else and would never fail to notice a couple well placed stickies on the ground in the middle of a fight. Explain it to me and I'll stop "asserting my opinion." I'm not looking to force the QF onto you guys and make you deal with it. I'm genuinely just looking for this higher-level reason for ESEA demomen to waste time single-detting players when they have a QF.

The community is never going to expand if your mindset is "AHH someone who doesn't get it!!! SHUN!!!"

As an HL player, I think Koobadoobs is being a shitlord and a dumbass for talking like he knows better than invite players without significant 6s experience. It's incredibly naive.

The problem with this is that you'll have uber by the time you get to mid, and easily win the mid. This could end up resulting in the exact same problem...

What's the most talked about thing this LAN? What's getting people excited and looking forward to catching the next dozen matches, too? The Quickfix (and Concheror). How will teams learn to deal with it and all the new strategies that came with it? "Did you see that ridiculous stalemate in that one game?" "No man, show me."

It gets people much more involved, people are much more interested in it. "What if they use x?" "What if Snipers simply remembered they can charge shots?" "Aren't Banners tailor-made to help break these kinds of stalemates?" And so on. That's what we should be seeing.

Instead all we get to see is "ban QF it's dumb" and "ban Heavy he's gay". Not just on the forums either. The casters themselves spent time complaining to everyone who was watching that TF2 is a shit game. Why would you do that?

Why can't we just admit teams just aren't used to QF yet and thus are making more mistakes than usual or are being more afraid to push/not realizing their advantage? It's lack of experience because nobody ever used it before the buff. That's fine. One can't blame the weapon for it.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call highlander players shit or dumb.

It's basically what #33 said. You're telling experienced 6v6 players how to properly play 6v6 when you don't have any experience on class relevant to 6v6 and even if you did you haven't played it in the same format so it wouldn't be super relevant.

I don't really think I'm the best person to explain everything to you as I'm not the most articulate person in the world, but just thinking back to what you said before: If someone is air detting at a quick fix it's a focus fire trying to instagib it. Good luck laying multiple stickies at a medics feet. Yes he'll jump, no you wont get to hit him with 3 stickies when he lands because the soldier will if nothing else shoot them out of the way. And if you spend their whole uber duration wasting ammo trying to kill them after the uber then you're probably going to lose anyway because the team is going to be coming in and you're not going to have any ammo to do anything about it.

I spend all this time typing up a small essay explaining why it's the weapon only to have a european trader who doesn't even play competitively tell me "One can't blame the weapon for it."

This is what I get for not just being a snarky asshole, fuck you.

Experience from other competitive games. (I also don't trade.) You see the same thing happening there every time too. New thing comes out, new dominant strategy emerges, people complain until people figure out how to deal with it.

Or are you trying to argue we've already seen the pinnacle of QF usage and the absolute best ways to counter it?

for the bombing issue- it sounds like that could be improved if a cooldown was added for the jump leashing when the medic takes damage? That way if you land a hit the medic isn't being jumped out for X seconds.

Sorry for assuming you were like 90% of 6s players. I'm used to getting crap from 6s players for maining engy cause it's not a real class or something (also, do you guys only ever play your main or something?). I pretty much expect it.

I'm not telling them how to play though. I'm just telling them to stop blaming the weapon without trying to learn its counter, and I'm giving a suggestion from the point of view of someone used to the kind of playstyle Quick Fix forces. It's a lot like the wrangler. You have to kill the engineer or put a lot of burst damage on the sentry to kill it. With QF you either kill the medic (which roamers are doing well) or burst them down (which demomen haven't even tried from what I've seen, excluding some stickytraps). It confuses me to see b4nny or seagull run backwards from a Megahealing combo throwing stickies and detting them one at a time, because that is just "wasting ammo" which you said they shouldn't do.

They aren't adapting and that's why you've got an hour long stalemate on gullywash. I don't mean to sound like I'm better than them, cause I'm not, but it annoys me that almost everyone is blaming the Quick Fix for creating this situation when it appears to be mostly the teams' fault. Maybe I'm just clueless and it's not possible to counter it when invite medics are so good. Fine, ban the QF. Sorry for screwing everything up with my arrogant naive stupidity. I tend to come across that way when I just offering the solution I would try. I don't mean to sound like it's absolutely the right way to do it. It's just a suggestion that a lot of you seem to immediately disregard.

Anyway, looks like I'm not gonna get any smarter by posting here, so whatever. Thanks for trying to explain, I guess.

I'm not going to bother seriously responding to a player that has never played above etf2l division 5 on this matter. I clearly spelled out why the QF is objectively the best mid roll-out and also the best defense against a QF last push.

I don't give a fuck about what other competitive games you watched, I see at least double digit retards on here daily talk about the dota meta-game and I'm pretty sure there's maybe 5 people in this community other than me that have played dota competitively.

June thread. Abandon thread

It's your MAIN. The one you MAINly play. Or you one of those "jack of all trades, master of none" sort of guys?

Platinum's gambit has been revealed. Rather than switching to demo, Mixup convinced the ignorant that the quick fix wasn't completely fucking retarded for the reason already explained. Will Platinum's grand scheme win him the trophy? Only time will tell.

If only we had uncovered the truth sooner.

Oh sorry tyler, let me give you something to spark your interest

http://i.imgur.com/gEwN6a4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IeFoDg0.jpg

Now shut the fuck up, adults are talking

I try to master engy, and I consider myself one of the better ones in my div, but I play soldier, scout, and pyro all at a pretty-close-to-high-silver level. I'd get bored if I only ever played one class.

I guess I'm the only one who does that?

I'm trying to find words to express my disbelief but I think I'm having a stroke from reading this.

qf uber auto-deploys after 10 seconds

what?

90% of engie is building shit and letting your gun do all the work for you

Listen koobadoobs, if you check their profiles, almost every invite player has about 5000 hours of in-game playing time, hours which include mastering different classes, practicing their DM, pubbing, 6v6 and 9v9 scrims and matches.
I mean no disrespect to you as what your skill level or experience is, but speaking as someone who isn't as good as any invite player at all, it is very very unlikely that everything that comes to you or me as "what would you naturally do to counter this" haven't already been thought of and tried by players that are competing to win prize money if they manage to actually counter the strategy.

Fair enough. With about half that many hours I can believe that.

this thread has been successfully derailed

Looks like HRG figured out how to use the quick fix too. Oops. Better luck next time Platinum.

koobadoobs getting carried by an inanimate object

the bandwagoning in this thread is awful. stop jumping on the engineer and realize his opinion is as valid as yours. he plays a class that is a part of this game, just like you. Trotim is a long-time community member in charge of a TF2 mod that seeks to balance the game and test new weapons; you should "seriously respond" to him. i'm guessing he knows more about the core of the game than most of you

stop making blind, rash decisions and give the QF time. maybe even, try a different strategy? maybe roamers can't do much against QF... so try a banner on for size. it's obvious the stalemates were caused by the players' attitude and QF playstyle as of now, not the weapon itself.

the elitism in this thread is staggeringly high and there's a reason why people don't want to get into comp and why Valve doesn't pay much attention to it. they give you a fresh lease on TF2 and you spit back immediately because your precious meta has been shaken up. the attitudes in this thread, in the streams are terrible, yeah seeing "#banquickfix" is really funny after the 1000th time. it's infantile honestly, you can't handle change, you can't handle a little instability. this should be the most exciting thing to happen to comp tf2 in years and it's being painted as a wreck. half of you might as well be playing a different game if you don't like coming in contact with heavies, engies, and pyros. grow up.

how 2 fix quick (heh)

1. make it charge x (5? 10?) seconds slower.
2. take away the ability to cap while active.

hire me valve

Alternatively, in order to increase the speed of the game heavy meta, unban GRU's. This will work. Trust me.

things that i personally believe to be reasonable quickfix nerfs individually that i read in threads:
- Take away the ability to cap while part of an uber
- Don't overheal medic during uber, or heal the medic slower during uber -- anything that makes the mechanic weaker because right now it's imbalanced
(I think it might be reasonable to make it stop healing the self and ramp up over time whenever the medic takes damage)
- Change the way following your target's jumps work (right now, medics go flying further than their target when they jump, because they're lighter than most classes in the game)
- Make the uber expire or something after a certain amount of time passes without using it (this has the potential to be VERY unintuitive)

what if the quick fix just made you more dependent on your teammates for survival? for example valve could add some stats like "no hp regen unless you're healing somebody" or "slower movement speed unless you're healing somebody".

This would make it so that if a medic escapes as the only one alive after a push he would be more likely today and then the other team would have a bigger advantage.

smart players pls tear my idea apart with your gamesense thx.

I hope the quick fix doesn't get banned next season. It sure isn't fun for anyone when a heavy and a QF medic roll out but it is really good seeing the game shaken up a bit and some discussion happening.

There are a few changes Valve could make to the quick fix that would make it more friendly to 6s. They could remove the heal rate from the medic during charge so they are as vulnerable as when using a kritz. They could remove the no airblast effect so that pyro has a place on the team during static fights. They could even make it work like uber so that points can't be capped while under QF effect. Realistically though Valve won't change it, or at least not for quite a while.

I think the answer to the quick fix is more unlocks. Give teams more weapons to use, give them more creative items like the conch, give players new ways to think about the game so that they can adapt. I shudder to think about more guaranteed crits in 6v6 and I hope we can avoid that but the reality is the meta before the QF was really stale.

The 6v6 community has set up a box within TF2 to try to exclude all the boring and frustrating parts of the game. Running around a corner into a heavy is just as boring as getting headshot from across the map though - congrats you picked the right class and clicked. As long as this box is set up within TF2 I would like to see more classes played and more weapons used competitively. Lets see what crazy strats and wacky plays come out of the QF and anything else that gets picked up in 6s. Just leave the crit weapons out, Highlander would be way more fun without the RNG kills. With so few new maps coming into competitive TF2 something needs to be added to make it more dynamic.