A better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?
Fat shaming
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A better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?
To clarify what should have been said since the dawn of time:
Gay- Epigenetic trait with no mental health implications
Trans- Questionably epigenetic (nothing has been investigated about it) but likely psychological and, as long as it's addressed no long term damage is done. (there are notably high depression rates in trans individuals, even post op)
Drunk- Addiction issue; long term effects are a mixed bag of results. liver/kidney problems for sure
Fat- Addiction issue, although socio-economic factors placate a fair amount of fat-stats and definitely do not assist the people struggling already; no positives, at all. (other then datasstho)
To clarify what should have been said since the dawn of time:
Gay- Epigenetic trait with no mental health implications
Trans- Questionably epigenetic (nothing has been investigated about it) but likely psychological and, as long as it's addressed no long term damage is done. (there are notably high depression rates in trans individuals, even post op)
Drunk- Addiction issue; long term effects are a mixed bag of results. liver/kidney problems for sure
Fat- Addiction issue, although socio-economic factors placate a fair amount of fat-stats and definitely do not assist the people struggling already; no positives, at all. (other then datasstho)
Gay- Epigenetic trait with no mental health implications
Trans- Questionably epigenetic (nothing has been investigated about it) but likely psychological and, as long as it's addressed no long term damage is done. (there are notably high depression rates in trans individuals, even post op)
Drunk- Addiction issue; long term effects are a mixed bag of results. liver/kidney problems for sure
Fat- Addiction issue, although socio-economic factors placate a fair amount of fat-stats and definitely do not assist the people struggling already; no positives, at all. (other then datasstho)
loljkA better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.
[quote=loljk]A better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?[/quote]
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.
mesmmhm, trans ppl are hamburgers, got it
what else can i learn fromt his thread
they r also moni
[quote=mes]mmhm, trans ppl are hamburgers, got it
what else can i learn fromt his thread[/quote]
they r also moni
what else can i learn fromt his thread[/quote]
they r also moni
Not_MatlockloljkA better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.
No I mean it in a ship of theseus kind of way, where by the soy burger slowly and systematically changes its burger bits from soy to not soy. Because on the inside it always felt it was a cheeseburger not a soy burger.
[quote=Not_Matlock][quote=loljk]A better analogy would be if a soy burger changed its meat to be a cheeseburger. Would it bother you if your cheeseburger was in its past a soy burger?[/quote]
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.[/quote]
No I mean it in a ship of theseus kind of way, where by the soy burger slowly and systematically changes its burger bits from soy to not soy. Because on the inside it always felt it was a cheeseburger not a soy burger.
Some people see it as just changing the bun on the soy burger and adding cheese. It may look like a cheeseburger, but it's still a soy burger on the inside.[/quote]
No I mean it in a ship of theseus kind of way, where by the soy burger slowly and systematically changes its burger bits from soy to not soy. Because on the inside it always felt it was a cheeseburger not a soy burger.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20072270-71/japanese-scientist-creates-poop-burger-surely-not/
They say that it's a perfectly normal burger.
No way in hell would I ever eat one.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20072270-71/japanese-scientist-creates-poop-burger-surely-not/
They say that it's a perfectly normal burger.
No way in hell would I ever eat one.
They say that it's a perfectly normal burger.
No way in hell would I ever eat one.
im just gonna ask that you refer to my previous posts so you can see how far you're straying from the point, its kind of ridiculous and this thread sucks now holy shit
I mean you cant really justify your bigotry towards trans people with poop burgers im sorry
im just gonna ask that you refer to my previous posts so you can see how far you're straying from the point, its kind of ridiculous and this thread sucks now holy shit
I mean you cant really justify your bigotry towards trans people with poop burgers im sorry
I mean you cant really justify your bigotry towards trans people with poop burgers im sorry
this thread is a poop burger and I just ate 3 pages of it
this thread is a poop burger and I just ate 3 pages of it
Since it's gone off on such a tangent to LGBT stuff, I want to know where each of you draws the line. Like some furries or something who believe they're an animal born in a human or some shit. What justifies treating someone how they like, even though physically they aren't? A lot of other things aren't so obvious in English speech since references to people always include the gender (no gender neutral pronouns for people).
Since it's gone off on such a tangent to LGBT stuff, I want to know where each of you draws the line. Like some furries or something who believe they're an animal born in a human or some shit. What justifies treating someone how they like, even though physically they aren't? A lot of other things aren't so obvious in English speech since references to people always include the gender (no gender neutral pronouns for people).
i hope you learned something bloodsire i mean rly every fucking time the topic comes up its just awful
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional
i hope you learned something bloodsire i mean rly every fucking time the topic comes up its just awful
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional
wafflebi hope you learned something bloodsire i mean rly every fucking time the topic comes up its just awful
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional
So as long as the person can keep up the image they present, they get to be referred to as such. Pretty fair. I think Smaka would refer to anyone transgender or whatever as such so long as they didn't tell him/make it known, since it breaks the image/illusion of who they think they are.
I haven't caught up completely after bloodsire started posting, but I hope it's just poopburgers.
[quote=waffleb]i hope you learned something bloodsire i mean rly every fucking time the topic comes up its just awful
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional[/quote]
So as long as the person can keep up the image they present, they get to be referred to as such. Pretty fair. I think Smaka would refer to anyone transgender or whatever as such so long as they didn't tell him/make it known, since it breaks the image/illusion of who they think they are.
I haven't caught up completely after bloodsire started posting, but I hope it's just poopburgers.
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
however nobody is going to perceive a human as a squirrel because that is not only unreasonable but impossible unless you are delusional[/quote]
So as long as the person can keep up the image they present, they get to be referred to as such. Pretty fair. I think Smaka would refer to anyone transgender or whatever as such so long as they didn't tell him/make it known, since it breaks the image/illusion of who they think they are.
I haven't caught up completely after bloodsire started posting, but I hope it's just poopburgers.
wwho here likes big booties
i misread this as big bellies, i should be shamed for my incompetence.
[quote=w]who here likes big booties[/quote]
i misread this as big bellies, i should be shamed for my incompetence.
i misread this as big bellies, i should be shamed for my incompetence.
smakersI'm not preaching anything, Renhet. I will refer to him as male because, biologically, he is male. Why is it rude? I'm not disregarding his beliefs, thoughts, and feelings--I'm simply not disregarding my own, either.
I dont want to read 800 posts but I've always thought it's logical to call them their biological gender until they get op done(so basically go by what they got down stairs). I've been told this is not nice :(
[quote=smakers]I'm not preaching anything, Renhet. I will refer to him as male because, biologically, he is male. Why is it rude? I'm not disregarding his beliefs, thoughts, and feelings--I'm simply not disregarding my own, either.[/quote]
I dont want to read 800 posts but I've always thought it's logical to call them their biological gender until they get op done(so basically go by what they got down stairs). I've been told this is not nice :(
I dont want to read 800 posts but I've always thought it's logical to call them their biological gender until they get op done(so basically go by what they got down stairs). I've been told this is not nice :(
but now im around mtfs all the time an di just say whatever they remind me of at the given time
but now im around mtfs all the time an di just say whatever they remind me of at the given time
@ OP : If you're really a friend you will go to her , slap her pudgy ass as hard as you can , followed by a slap on her face .
Maybe that will will serve as a wake up call for her.
Obese people are mentally weak people , i like to call them "metal midgets".
@ OP : If you're really a friend you will go to her , slap her pudgy ass as hard as you can , followed by a slap on her face .
Maybe that will will serve as a wake up call for her.
Obese people are mentally weak people , i like to call them "metal midgets".
Maybe that will will serve as a wake up call for her.
Obese people are mentally weak people , i like to call them "metal midgets".
onv"metal midgets".
http://images.uncyc.org/commons/c/cc/Midget_hard-core-heavy-metal-midget.jpg
[quote=onv]"metal midgets".[/quote]
[img]http://images.uncyc.org/commons/c/cc/Midget_hard-core-heavy-metal-midget.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.uncyc.org/commons/c/cc/Midget_hard-core-heavy-metal-midget.jpg[/img]
BLoodSireFor instance the M<F we agree identifies as female and is thus attracted to men and the F<M male and thus attracted to females
I want to point out that this is completely wrong, gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing, there are plenty of transexuals who are sexually attracted to people who are the gender they transitioned to (hell, I'm pretty sure that includes waffleb)
BLoodSireI do, however, see what smaka is trying to get at. We aren't allowed to talk like this because it might mean biggotry, judgement, and hurt, things we try so hard to move beyond and remove from the social discourse. So opinions deemed taboo begin being lopped in with ignorance and biggotry, but I think there is a founded point here: If you look at the human species, the male/female dichotomy, what is immediately understood is the importance of sexual reproduction. Not importance in necessity of the act to be performed, but importance in how the species is identified and how it typically operates. In that sense, non-hetero relations are...lets not say "not normal" (society has conflated the term normal) lets say "atypical" to the apparent function of the species.
1.) I have still yet to see an argument about the importance of sexual reproduction that takes into account straight, cis-gendered people who just choose not to have kids
2.) sexual reproduction on the level of the species is necessary for the survival of the species. sexual reproduction at the level of the organism is not necessary and not "normal" per se either. what about all the animals that die before they reach sexual maturity, or never find a mate? are they really atypical?
3.) "normal" is a man-made term anyways. nature draws no lines and sets no norms, it's all relative. statistically, any organism that isn't a beetle isn't normal.
[quote=BLoodSire]
For instance the M<F we agree identifies as female and is thus attracted to men and the F<M male and thus attracted to females
[/quote]
I want to point out that this is completely wrong, gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing, there are plenty of transexuals who are sexually attracted to people who are the gender they transitioned to (hell, I'm pretty sure that includes waffleb)
[quote=BLoodSire]
I do, however, see what smaka is trying to get at. We aren't allowed to talk like this because it might mean biggotry, judgement, and hurt, things we try so hard to move beyond and remove from the social discourse. So opinions deemed taboo begin being lopped in with ignorance and biggotry, but I think there is a founded point here: If you look at the human species, the male/female dichotomy, what is immediately understood is the importance of sexual reproduction. Not importance in necessity of the act to be performed, but importance in how the species is identified and how it typically operates. In that sense, non-hetero relations are...lets not say "not normal" (society has conflated the term normal) lets say "atypical" to the apparent function of the species.
[/quote]
1.) I have still yet to see an argument about the importance of sexual reproduction that takes into account straight, cis-gendered people who just choose not to have kids
2.) sexual reproduction on the level of the species is necessary for the survival of the species. sexual reproduction at the level of the organism is not necessary and not "normal" per se either. what about all the animals that die before they reach sexual maturity, or never find a mate? are they really atypical?
3.) "normal" is a man-made term anyways. nature draws no lines and sets no norms, it's all relative. statistically, any organism that isn't a beetle isn't normal.
For instance the M<F we agree identifies as female and is thus attracted to men and the F<M male and thus attracted to females
[/quote]
I want to point out that this is completely wrong, gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same thing, there are plenty of transexuals who are sexually attracted to people who are the gender they transitioned to (hell, I'm pretty sure that includes waffleb)
[quote=BLoodSire]
I do, however, see what smaka is trying to get at. We aren't allowed to talk like this because it might mean biggotry, judgement, and hurt, things we try so hard to move beyond and remove from the social discourse. So opinions deemed taboo begin being lopped in with ignorance and biggotry, but I think there is a founded point here: If you look at the human species, the male/female dichotomy, what is immediately understood is the importance of sexual reproduction. Not importance in necessity of the act to be performed, but importance in how the species is identified and how it typically operates. In that sense, non-hetero relations are...lets not say "not normal" (society has conflated the term normal) lets say "atypical" to the apparent function of the species.
[/quote]
1.) I have still yet to see an argument about the importance of sexual reproduction that takes into account straight, cis-gendered people who just choose not to have kids
2.) sexual reproduction on the level of the species is necessary for the survival of the species. sexual reproduction at the level of the organism is not necessary and not "normal" per se either. what about all the animals that die before they reach sexual maturity, or never find a mate? are they really atypical?
3.) "normal" is a man-made term anyways. nature draws no lines and sets no norms, it's all relative. statistically, any organism that isn't a beetle isn't normal.
wafflebmgib
Not trying to be conceited, but everyone else does see it that way, sorry. Everyone who I've told or had to tell in real life is always either very surprised or hesitant to believe me, since the only trans people they've seen are the ones that don't pass (I wonder why?) There are plenty of trans people, man or woman, that don't get 'clocked' in real life
they gotta look at hand size then m8
[quote=waffleb][quote=mgib][/quote]
Not trying to be conceited, but everyone else does see it that way, sorry. Everyone who I've told or had to tell in real life is always either very surprised or hesitant to believe me, since the only trans people they've seen are the ones that don't pass (I wonder why?) There are plenty of trans people, man or woman, that don't get 'clocked' in real life[/quote]
they gotta look at hand size then m8
Not trying to be conceited, but everyone else does see it that way, sorry. Everyone who I've told or had to tell in real life is always either very surprised or hesitant to believe me, since the only trans people they've seen are the ones that don't pass (I wonder why?) There are plenty of trans people, man or woman, that don't get 'clocked' in real life[/quote]
they gotta look at hand size then m8
SparrowBLoodSireSparrow
Continuing on that, what if it was impossible for you to tell?
I believe it's on the post-op person to inform their partner. If the game is to see how I would react I couldn't tell you, because it hasn't happened. I would be miffed in all likelihood. Why? Dunno, it's just how I feel, and I cannot change that and I find it doubly and hypocritically wrong for someone to suggest I should.
So are you of the opinion that when you have two things that are functionally and aesthetically the same, viewing them as different due to invisible factors that you would be unaware of if you were not told is rational? I don't think you can really argue that it is rational, and while I don't necessarily blame you or think less of you for feeling that way, I think it's unrealistic of you to consider it not a bigoted opinion.
To further illustrate my point, I will provide an example.
A man, upon meeting a woman, finds her physically attractive and chooses to strike up a conversation with her, hoping to pursue a romantic relationship. During the conversation, the man learns that one of the woman's parents happens to be black. Upon learning this, the man no longer finds the woman attractive and is no longer interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with her because the fact that one of her parents is black makes him uncomfortable. Do you consider this man a bigot?
I don't necessarily agree that "irrational" and "bigoted" are the same thing. every human psyche is filled with thousands of irrationalities, which are pretty unavoidably ingrained in all our dumb stone-age brains. I agree that there is no difference between bloodsire's feelings and the analogy you use her (although our society would, unfortunately, judge them very differently), but to call either bigoted if the person is aware of their own irrationality is to me a lack of empathy for other human beings.
maybe the guy can't look at his girlfriend without picturing her as black, which is totally unattractive to him. maybe bloodsire can't look at a photo of waffleb without picturing what she looked like as a dude. is this bigotry? I would not say so.
[quote=Sparrow][quote=BLoodSire][quote=Sparrow]
Continuing on that, what if it was impossible for you to tell?[/quote]
I believe it's on the post-op person to inform their partner. If the game is to see how I would react I couldn't tell you, because it hasn't happened. I would be miffed in all likelihood. Why? Dunno, it's just how I feel, and I cannot change that and I find it doubly and hypocritically wrong for someone to suggest I should.
[/quote]
So are you of the opinion that when you have two things that are functionally and aesthetically the same, viewing them as different due to invisible factors that you would be unaware of if you were not told is rational? I don't think you can really argue that it is rational, and while I don't necessarily blame you or think less of you for feeling that way, I think it's unrealistic of you to consider it not a bigoted opinion.
To further illustrate my point, I will provide an example.
A man, upon meeting a woman, finds her physically attractive and chooses to strike up a conversation with her, hoping to pursue a romantic relationship. During the conversation, the man learns that one of the woman's parents happens to be black. Upon learning this, the man no longer finds the woman attractive and is no longer interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with her because the fact that one of her parents is black makes him uncomfortable. Do you consider this man a bigot?[/quote]
I don't necessarily agree that "irrational" and "bigoted" are the same thing. every human psyche is filled with thousands of irrationalities, which are pretty unavoidably ingrained in all our dumb stone-age brains. I agree that there is no difference between bloodsire's feelings and the analogy you use her (although our society would, unfortunately, judge them very differently), but to call either bigoted if the person is aware of their own irrationality is to me a lack of empathy for other human beings.
maybe the guy can't look at his girlfriend without picturing her as black, which is totally unattractive to him. maybe bloodsire can't look at a photo of waffleb without picturing what she looked like as a dude. is this bigotry? I would not say so.
Continuing on that, what if it was impossible for you to tell?[/quote]
I believe it's on the post-op person to inform their partner. If the game is to see how I would react I couldn't tell you, because it hasn't happened. I would be miffed in all likelihood. Why? Dunno, it's just how I feel, and I cannot change that and I find it doubly and hypocritically wrong for someone to suggest I should.
[/quote]
So are you of the opinion that when you have two things that are functionally and aesthetically the same, viewing them as different due to invisible factors that you would be unaware of if you were not told is rational? I don't think you can really argue that it is rational, and while I don't necessarily blame you or think less of you for feeling that way, I think it's unrealistic of you to consider it not a bigoted opinion.
To further illustrate my point, I will provide an example.
A man, upon meeting a woman, finds her physically attractive and chooses to strike up a conversation with her, hoping to pursue a romantic relationship. During the conversation, the man learns that one of the woman's parents happens to be black. Upon learning this, the man no longer finds the woman attractive and is no longer interested in pursuing a romantic relationship with her because the fact that one of her parents is black makes him uncomfortable. Do you consider this man a bigot?[/quote]
I don't necessarily agree that "irrational" and "bigoted" are the same thing. every human psyche is filled with thousands of irrationalities, which are pretty unavoidably ingrained in all our dumb stone-age brains. I agree that there is no difference between bloodsire's feelings and the analogy you use her (although our society would, unfortunately, judge them very differently), but to call either bigoted if the person is aware of their own irrationality is to me a lack of empathy for other human beings.
maybe the guy can't look at his girlfriend without picturing her as black, which is totally unattractive to him. maybe bloodsire can't look at a photo of waffleb without picturing what she looked like as a dude. is this bigotry? I would not say so.
wafflebalso brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
while I do refer to trans women as women with no problem, I have no idea why you're making the determination external ("everyone perceives me as one" p.s. i before e except after c), rather than internal ("my gender identity is female so that's what I am").
if bloodsire met you in real life and thought you looked like a dude would you stop being a woman? are ugly transexuals still men?
I think a better argument against furries and shit is that what they're doing is almost certainly a choice. all human beings are exposed to male and female hormones and don't diverge to one gender until what, like 20 weeks into development in the womb? I'm pretty sure furries aren't exposed to squirrel genes in the womb
[quote=waffleb]
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
[/quote]
while I do refer to trans women as women with no problem, I have no idea why you're making the determination external ("everyone perceives me as one" p.s. i before e except after c), rather than internal ("my gender identity is female so that's what I am").
if bloodsire met you in real life and thought you looked like a dude would you stop being a woman? are ugly transexuals still men?
I think a better argument against furries and shit is that what they're doing is almost certainly a choice. all human beings are exposed to male and female hormones and don't diverge to one gender until what, like 20 weeks into development in the womb? I'm pretty sure furries aren't exposed to squirrel genes in the womb
also brownymaster i can justify being a woman because everyone percieves me as one
[/quote]
while I do refer to trans women as women with no problem, I have no idea why you're making the determination external ("everyone perceives me as one" p.s. i before e except after c), rather than internal ("my gender identity is female so that's what I am").
if bloodsire met you in real life and thought you looked like a dude would you stop being a woman? are ugly transexuals still men?
I think a better argument against furries and shit is that what they're doing is almost certainly a choice. all human beings are exposed to male and female hormones and don't diverge to one gender until what, like 20 weeks into development in the womb? I'm pretty sure furries aren't exposed to squirrel genes in the womb
sorry for bringin cheeseburgers into this thread that was a mistake in retrospect
sorry for bringin cheeseburgers into this thread that was a mistake in retrospect
shifty1g#239 http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/1217/39#post-178913
yo id suck her dick anytime
[quote=shifty1g]#239 http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/1217/39#post-178913[/quote]
yo id suck her dick anytime
yo id suck her dick anytime
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