Looking forward to this

Played on it earlier today, it looks really neat, Pushing out of easy is crazy easy now, like if med dies it takes him double the time to get to second now, also they nerfed sniper really hard. Oh and kitchen scouts have an easier time now cause if noones watching kitchen it's really easy to sneak through

Sounds excellent. I look forward to playing it.

I don't really like some of the changes, I think making the fences solid will have a bad impact on medics. You feel very enclosed and will get bombed out of nowhere. The changes to right side of last (defender's pov) are fine but I'm not sure I like new dropdown as much, some great plays were made from there and it would be a shame to remove it. The forward spawn changes are good though.

Interesting changes. Is there a chance this could be used in the season 15 map list? Also, is it possible for Valve to implement these changes into the official "cp_snakewater" map? I have no idea how the rights or ability to change maps work when Valve releases someone else's map into the game.

cp_snakewater isn't official.

Personally I preferred the old fences as I think they looks far nicer than the solid blocks of wood but it's not a huge deal. Going to miss stupid dropdown plays a lot and this tree on second

http://puu.sh/4kJXQ.jpg

I'm not sure if I like the visibility changes, especially on middle. Kitchen has always been one of the most effective strategies for Scouts and Roamers. I don't think it really needed a buff. Plus I think that aesthetically the map doesn't look as good with the boards. The last changes I like though I think. Dropdown got a lot more dangerous but on the whole it's consistently easier to push out of then before.

Believe it not not Snakewater isn't official

Wow, I must have been thinking of process.

This..

I kind of like the drop down change.. tho I feel like there should still be a railing.
Also the right side huge wall(last), I will be honest that looks horrible.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1100291190004528165/DB773F7E069C98D840419E984A87C0DEBC948AC2/

I like the fence changes on mid but not the ones on 2nd. You're basically forced to stand on the shed/on the fence to have any sort of vision in yard without being in a bad position. Drop down change is nice.

It looks pretty nice actually.

please change the solid blocks of wood on mid and second back to the old gate styles please

Besides that, I like it!

EDIT: Wait, you're not chojje, I'm fucking stupid :P

Not sure if he even posts on these forums, you can probably get ahold of him via steam or the ETF2L forums thread

http://etf2l.org/forum/maps/topic-12279/page-1/

like benroads said, if you want to provide feedback directly to the map author you need to post a reply at that etf2l thread. he doesnt read it here

I was just about to bump the old Snakewater thread when I found this! Thanks for the feedback - as you have noticed the visuals are still quite provisional, while I'm making sure the gameplay changes work out.

The fences are problematic - they add a lot of visual noise to the map which makes it confusing for newer players, but on the other hand they're very important to gameplay because of the visibility they give. The idea is to simplify the visuals, but I agree that it may change the balance in favor of bombers.

I'm currently finishing up g6 which adds some visibility through the fences and cleans up some other things.

What about this? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/New%20Bitmap%20Image%20%283%29.jpg

Have a few suggestions mainly for hiding places, I'm kind of a fan of sneaky plays or hiding spots so here's a few I always wondered why they weren't available.

http://i.imgur.com/fdObNcq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oTczZzJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1MLtTNM.jpg

In red are the spots I would think would be good additions, the second one mainly, always wondered why it wasn't released with the map.

As for changes to this version.

First I have to say I haven't tested anything in pugs or mixes so this is solely my opinion from what I have seen wandering on the map.

The reworked last, I like it a lot, the left "kind of porch" is cool and gives a little more space to push, altough I don't really like the fence on the right because it completely covers the stairs from bottom.

About the dropdown, I like it a lot altough you should still keep the old dropdown from second. It really was a good opportunity for some spy plays or sneaky roamer plays from last to 2nd and it should be kept, the new one is cool tho, but please add the old one back as well..

I don't like the fences on second mid and second, I think they were important and provided good information for both attacking and defending teams and removing that sighline is bad imo.

The spawns on mid look cool altough since I haven't tested in a match I dont know how well or bad it will work

Maybe make the both lower walls see-through?

I could, but I kind of like making the little staircase more powerful for sneaky plays, and reducing the sightline from grass to the main entrance into lobby. If you could justify it, I'm more than happy considering changing it.

That sounds like a "why not just making them the same?" comment. How useful would it be to be able to see between the back of lobby and the bottom of kitchen? Optimising makes me think "not that important", but that's just my opinion.

I feel that until lobby is significantly less spamable from 2 it will still be impossible push out of last without the other team failing a push first. As is, you would have to pop through lobby, and the other team can fight 5v6 because of how much of a kill zone bats and lobby are.

Well, a lot of maps have this property (Badlands comes to mind). I on't know how to change this without reworking the 2-1 connector entirely.

Here's g6 now: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_g6.bsp

I changed the fence for a little building, tell me what you think!

I can't download g5 8( Error (404)
We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home.

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/1100291190029939964/19582A95809889A8CF262C3BD5CD14C09CA1463B/

How do you feel about removing that mid pole ?:p

Yep, g6 is now the official latest testing version.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_g6.bsp

I could, but the structure looks a bit heavy to be supported by fewer poles.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ihvopmksxh8dvvd/cp_snakewater_g5.bsp

Uploaded it incase you wanted to take a look.

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/1100291190029939964/19582A95809889A8CF262C3BD5CD14C09CA1463B/

I could, but the structure looks a bit heavy to be supported by fewer poles.[/quote]

It's tf2:P okey, maybe move it a little to the right, so it isn't like in the middle of the stairs.. My OCD is in the works :S