As everybody knows, discussion about leaving ESEA to rot in the dust has exploded the past couple days. There's a lot of opinions, thoughts, and ideas going around. I thought it would be good to organize it all into a single post so people can make an educated decision.
I know I haven't been around as long as others, so if you see something wrong with something I say, please say something because I'm probably wrong.
Background:
ESEA is a pay to play TF2 league that has made itself the front runner for most competitive TF2 in NA. After 15 seasons, the league has 4 divisions, and somewhere around 200 teams. Part of the reason it's grandfathered into competitive TF2 is because it has made a name for itself in other competitive games as well.
Part of the money that you pay for playing in the league goes towards a client that a player must use to enter an ESEA server. Last season(?), the client was found to mine bitcoins while player's computers were idle (if you don't know about bitcoins, just know that the mining process can destroy expensive parts of your computer). It also created a backdoor for somebody from ESEA to get into your computer.
The co-owner of ESEA, LPKane, has also enraged the TF2 community by saying stupid things about TF2 and being cocky enough to say that TF2 has nowhere else to go (if somebody could find pictures or links to those, that would be great). Support of TF2, from updating servers, to listening to the community, has not come from ESEA.
So in the past few days, players have finally had enough with ESEA and want out. So, what choices do we have?
Choices:
Stay with ESEA
Pros:Has a client, dedicated servers, payed staff, and already setup TF2 league. LAN at the end of the season with high-skill TF2 to entertain us.
Cons:Not very popular. They continually disrespect us as a community and no longer have our trust. Who knows where our money is going there, anyway.
I HIGHLY SUGGEST WE STAY AWAY FROM THIS CHOICE.
NA ETF2L
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN? definitely happening if we want it.
Cons: no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool for low levels.
CEVO
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?). Good prizepool.
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. No LAN.
UGC
Pros: Already very respected for HL. Has a 6s league with lots of teams and multiple divisions. Dedicated mods and admins that play competitive TF2. Free.
Cons: Mostly associated with low level teams (I think UGC platinum is = ESEA Open level). No client (could be good or bad), no dedicated servers. Small prizepool. No LAN. Matchcomms are difficult to use(?).
IGL
Pros: Has a TF2 league setup. Uses ladders?
Cons:
Someone post about IGL, because I don't know anything about them.
TF.TV league
Pros: A HUGE player in NA TF2. Run by top-level players, with articles written often and lots of good content. Big forum. Considered the "hub" of competitive TF2.
Cons: Just an idea right now. Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.
Community-made league
Pros: Made by players, for players. Anything is possible.
Cons: No clue who would step up to make this. I don't have the money or html skills to do this.
Conclusion:
We have lots of choices, and ideas are only developing now, so things can change quickly. The first decision we should make as a community is if we abandon ESEA. Then, we decide what we do for a league. WE DO NOT HAVE TO ABANDON ESEA RIGHT NOW. WE CAN FINISH THIS SEASON AND GET OUR MONEY'S WORTH.
My thoughts (nobody probably wants to hear it anyway, but I have time before work):
Let ESEA die in hell. They've proved time and time again that they don't want us. What we do after that will probably not be decided by the low level community, but by the top-level players. Wherever they go, the rest of us are likely to follow. My personal opinion is that we go to UGC. They have a league setup for the NA, with multiple divisions. I think it's a well run site.
New idea:
We've had multiple people come up and say that they are willing to help with a new league. My idea is that they all combine talents and work together, under the direction of Nahanni. Pascal said that TF2.gg is going towards a league website instead of just PUGs. IARENOBODY stepped forward and said that he and a couple others will help. fsXD stepped up with his photoshop skillz. With enough of a team and good coordination, it might be able to get done.
I will be making edits as much as I can, but I have to go to work soon. Be aware of that.
EDIT: Did some research on IGL. Still don't know alot.
EDIT: CEVO had a good prizepool
EDIT: IGL dead?
EDIT: Updated NA ETF2L
EDIT: Changed ETF2L prizepool and added a new idea
As everybody knows, discussion about leaving ESEA to rot in the dust has exploded the past couple days. There's a lot of opinions, thoughts, and ideas going around. I thought it would be good to organize it all into a single post so people can make an educated decision.
I know I haven't been around as long as others, so if you see something wrong with something I say, please say something because I'm probably wrong.
Background:
ESEA is a pay to play TF2 league that has made itself the front runner for most competitive TF2 in NA. After 15 seasons, the league has 4 divisions, and somewhere around 200 teams. Part of the reason it's grandfathered into competitive TF2 is because it has made a name for itself in other competitive games as well.
Part of the money that you pay for playing in the league goes towards a client that a player must use to enter an ESEA server. Last season(?), the client was found to mine bitcoins while player's computers were idle (if you don't know about bitcoins, just know that the mining process can destroy expensive parts of your computer). It also created a backdoor for somebody from ESEA to get into your computer.
The co-owner of ESEA, LPKane, has also enraged the TF2 community by saying stupid things about TF2 and being cocky enough to say that TF2 has nowhere else to go (if somebody could find pictures or links to those, that would be great). Support of TF2, from updating servers, to listening to the community, has not come from ESEA.
So in the past few days, players have finally had enough with ESEA and want out. So, what choices do we have?
Choices:
[b]Stay with ESEA[/b]
Pros:Has a client, dedicated servers, payed staff, and already setup TF2 league. LAN at the end of the season with high-skill TF2 to entertain us.
Cons:Not very popular. They continually disrespect us as a community and no longer have our trust. Who knows where our money is going there, anyway.
I HIGHLY SUGGEST WE STAY AWAY FROM THIS CHOICE.
[b]NA ETF2L[/b]
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN? definitely happening if we want it.
Cons: no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool for low levels.
[b]CEVO[/b]
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?). Good prizepool.
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. No LAN.
[b]UGC[/b]
Pros: Already very respected for HL. Has a 6s league with lots of teams and multiple divisions. Dedicated mods and admins that play competitive TF2. Free.
Cons: Mostly associated with low level teams (I think UGC platinum is = ESEA Open level). No client (could be good or bad), no dedicated servers. Small prizepool. No LAN. Matchcomms are difficult to use(?).
[b]IGL[/b]
Pros: Has a TF2 league setup. Uses ladders?
Cons:
Someone post about IGL, because I don't know anything about them.
[b]TF.TV league[/b]
Pros: A HUGE player in NA TF2. Run by top-level players, with articles written often and lots of good content. Big forum. Considered the "hub" of competitive TF2.
Cons: Just an idea right now. Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.
[b]Community-made league[/b]
Pros: Made by players, for players. Anything is possible.
Cons: No clue who would step up to make this. I don't have the money or html skills to do this.
Conclusion:
We have lots of choices, and ideas are only developing now, so things can change quickly. The first decision we should make as a community is if we abandon ESEA. Then, we decide what we do for a league. WE DO NOT HAVE TO ABANDON ESEA RIGHT NOW. WE CAN FINISH THIS SEASON AND GET OUR MONEY'S WORTH.
My thoughts (nobody probably wants to hear it anyway, but I have time before work):
Let ESEA die in hell. They've proved time and time again that they don't want us. What we do after that will probably not be decided by the low level community, but by the top-level players. Wherever they go, the rest of us are likely to follow. My personal opinion is that we go to UGC. They have a league setup for the NA, with multiple divisions. I think it's a well run site.
New idea:
We've had multiple people come up and say that they are willing to help with a new league. My idea is that they all combine talents and work together, under the direction of Nahanni. Pascal said that TF2.gg is going towards a league website instead of just PUGs. IARENOBODY stepped forward and said that he and a couple others will help. fsXD stepped up with his photoshop skillz. With enough of a team and good coordination, it might be able to get done.
I will be making edits as much as I can, but I have to go to work soon. Be aware of that.
EDIT: Did some research on IGL. Still don't know alot.
EDIT: CEVO had a good prizepool
[s]EDIT: IGL dead?[/s]
EDIT: Updated NA ETF2L
EDIT: Changed ETF2L prizepool and added a new idea
z4chCEVO
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?).
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. No prizepool(?), no LAN.
...
TF.TV league
...
Cons: Just an idea right now. Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.
DO RESEARCH.
http://www.cevo.com/news/120/team-fortress-2-6v6-season-3-information-600-in-cash-prizes/
enigma"we" gets thrown around a lot
it typically translates to "anyone but me" in regards to putting forth actual work
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14025-the-esea-abuse-thread/2#post-38
[quote=z4ch]
[b]CEVO[/b]
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?).
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. [b]No prizepool(?)[/b], no LAN.
...
[b]TF.TV league[/b]
...
Cons: Just an idea right now. [b]Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.[/b]
[/quote]
DO RESEARCH.
http://www.cevo.com/news/120/team-fortress-2-6v6-season-3-information-600-in-cash-prizes/
[quote=enigma]"we" gets thrown around a lot
it typically translates to "anyone but me" in regards to putting forth actual work[/quote]
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14025-the-esea-abuse-thread/2#post-38
nightwatchz4chCEVO
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?).
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. No prizepool(?), no LAN.
...
TF.TV league
...
Cons: Just an idea right now. Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.
DO RESEARCH.
enigma"we" gets thrown around a lot
it typically translates to "anyone but me" in regards to putting forth actual work
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14025-the-esea-abuse-thread/2#post-38
That's not a statement about whether TF.tv will make a league, that's a statement about everybody's thoughts about the subject.
[quote=nightwatch][quote=z4ch]
[b]CEVO[/b]
Pros: Has an NA league setup, has a client (could be good or bad), NA rule set, free league, dedicated staff(?).
Cons: Something happened years ago, which is why they stopped, then came back (I don't know much about it). Mostly associated with low level teams and teams that want to joke around. [b]No prizepool(?)[/b], no LAN.
...
[b]TF.TV league[/b]
...
Cons: Just an idea right now. [b]Not even a statement about it from enigma is known.[/b]
[/quote]
DO RESEARCH.
[quote=enigma]"we" gets thrown around a lot
it typically translates to "anyone but me" in regards to putting forth actual work[/quote]
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14025-the-esea-abuse-thread/2#post-38[/quote]
That's not a statement about whether TF.tv will make a league, that's a statement about everybody's thoughts about the subject.
CEVO is actually a really good alternative to esea. It has a pretty easy to use client that isn't as intensive as ESEA's. Also they do have a prizepool of like 600 dollars and gaming peripherals(not sure about the gaming peripherals part someone else confirm).
Only thing I dislike about cevo is that it hasn't really expanded yet so open is the only div as of now.
CEVO is actually a really good alternative to esea. It has a pretty easy to use client that isn't as intensive as ESEA's. Also they do have a prizepool of like 600 dollars and gaming peripherals(not sure about the gaming peripherals part someone else confirm).
Only thing I dislike about cevo is that it hasn't really expanded yet so open is the only div as of now.
IGL is dead, Jim.
EDIT: I take that back, it seems to be up at the moment. My bad.
[s]IGL is dead, Jim.[/s]
EDIT: I take that back, it seems to be up at the moment. My bad.
LKincheloeIGL is dead, Jim.
I heard it in a thread somewhere, so I thought I'd put it up.
[quote=LKincheloe]IGL is dead, Jim.[/quote]
I heard it in a thread somewhere, so I thought I'd put it up.
I legitimately think we need to stop discussing staying with ESEA for another season. At this point it'd be far more beneficial for us to focus our efforts on actually making something else happen.
I have never in all of my seasons known a team captain or scheduler who was capable of going a season without being negatively influenced by ESEA's rigidity at some point. Multiple seasons now they have murdered active teams for no legitimate reason, including this season straight up murdering watch this for dubious reasons. Killing and Kalkin are fairly routinely demonstrating that they no longer have the community interest at heart, lpkane just banned st.patrick for 10 years, and ESEA's rules have recently impacted the mix up roster as well.
They installed fucking malware on your computer, constantly fuck you over with arbitrary rules and infrastructure forced onto you from counter strike, and refuse at every twist and turn to deliver on the features that have been promised us since 15 fucking seasons ago. It's absurd.
I legitimately think we need to stop discussing staying with ESEA for another season. At this point it'd be far more beneficial for us to focus our efforts on actually making something else happen.
I have never in all of my seasons known a team captain or scheduler who was capable of going a season without being negatively influenced by ESEA's rigidity at some point. Multiple seasons now they have murdered active teams for no legitimate reason, including this season straight up murdering watch this for dubious reasons. Killing and Kalkin are fairly routinely demonstrating that they no longer have the community interest at heart, lpkane just banned st.patrick for 10 years, and ESEA's rules have recently impacted the mix up roster as well.
They installed fucking malware on your computer, constantly fuck you over with arbitrary rules and infrastructure forced onto you from counter strike, and refuse at every twist and turn to deliver on the features that have been promised us since 15 fucking seasons ago. It's absurd.
If a new league has a buy-in that's close to ESEA that can help it build a prizepool. That and sponsor money could help promote the league.
If you make a LAN in Boston (PAX East?) or New York, you could fly-in Euros for cheaper than most places in the U.S.
If a new league has a buy-in that's close to ESEA that can help it build a prizepool. That and sponsor money could help promote the league.
If you make a LAN in Boston (PAX East?) or New York, you could fly-in Euros for cheaper than most places in the U.S.
z4ch
NA ETF2L
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN?
Cons: Not a definite choice yet, only one server in NA, no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool.
NA ETF2L is as good as confirmed as long as we get the interest. It's a definite choice for you.
As I said on the other thread we can easily get more servers from our sponsors, we just currently only have 1 because it's hardly ever needed. We have 5 German and 3 UK servers currently.
[quote=z4ch]
[b]NA ETF2L[/b]
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN?
Cons: Not a definite choice yet, only one server in NA, no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool.
[/quote]
NA ETF2L is as good as confirmed as long as we get the interest. It's a definite choice for you.
As I said on the other thread we can easily get more servers from our sponsors, we just currently only have 1 because it's hardly ever needed. We have 5 German and 3 UK servers currently.
I'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.
I'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.
Permzillaz4ch
NA ETF2L
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN?
Cons: Not a definite choice yet, only one server in NA, no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool.
NA ETF2L is as good as confirmed as long as we get the interest. It's a definite choice for you.
As I said on the other thread we can easily get more servers from our sponsors, we just currently only have 1 because it's hardly ever needed.
thank you. ill update.
[quote=Permzilla][quote=z4ch]
[b]NA ETF2L[/b]
Pros: Mods and admins are competitive TF2 players, listen to their league, good words from players from the EU scene. Willing to make a league as well (supposedly easy to setup?), Free. Possibly a LAN?
Cons: Not a definite choice yet, only one server in NA, no client (could be good or bad), EU rules (ew). No prizepool.
[/quote]
NA ETF2L is as good as confirmed as long as we get the interest. It's a definite choice for you.
As I said on the other thread we can easily get more servers from our sponsors, we just currently only have 1 because it's hardly ever needed.[/quote]
thank you. ill update.
IARENOBODYI'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.
I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but if you need a league admin or something that doesn't require coding experience, I'll volunteer.
[quote=IARENOBODY]I'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.[/quote]
I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but if you need a league admin or something that doesn't require coding experience, I'll volunteer.
z4chIARENOBODYI'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.
I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but if you need a league admin or something that doesn't require coding experience, I'll volunteer.
If it does happen the selection of admins would be made based on applications submitted.
[quote=z4ch][quote=IARENOBODY]I'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.[/quote]
I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but if you need a league admin or something that doesn't require coding experience, I'll volunteer.[/quote]
If it does happen the selection of admins would be made based on applications submitted.
IARENOBODYI'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.
you're beautiful
[quote=IARENOBODY]I'm forming a team of players to try and make a new league. Anyone else who wants to join can do so. So far I have just 2 people. One of them is my friend, who is a web developer, and of course myself. If anyone has knowledge of website design, or programming, add me. I'm trying to recruit Lange, Blindsight, Roman Anderson and anyone else who is willing to help. I believe Alfunkso will help with some of the programming. Right now the plan is to create a league with a pug system, better stats, and server support. The proposed league wouldn't be free, but that's only because we need a way to have a prize pot, and a way of paying the people who put time into it.[/quote]
you're beautiful
I think at this point it would be best to go with the UGC option rather than the etf2l option. We just need to establish a solid foundation for a pay to play 6s league with proper divisions and people running the league etc. Fresh, or even slightly developed startup options would probably be difficult, hence why a league such as UGC or Etf2l should be the main two we're deciding on, as they already have lots of resources and a large player base.
I think at this point it would be best to go with the UGC option rather than the etf2l option. We just need to establish a solid foundation for a pay to play 6s league with proper divisions and people running the league etc. Fresh, or even slightly developed startup options would probably be difficult, hence why a league such as UGC or Etf2l should be the main two we're deciding on, as they already have lots of resources and a large player base.
I would consider combining our efforts in TF2.gg with building a new league. A lot of the future features that we are currently working on seem to be present in what people want in a league (pug system, stats, provided servers, etc.)
Unfortunately this kind of thing takes an incredible amount of time, effort, and skill. The TF2 community would need to be absolutely committed to one solution. I'd be pretty pissed if we finished it and then someone comes up to us and says, "Oh hey, we decided to use *insert other league here*, all your hours of stress and sleepless nights is useless."
If we decide to go this route, whoever makes this new league needs to make it well and lead it well. Otherwise, we'll be back to square one. This is a very big commitment for both the developers and the community.
I would consider combining our efforts in TF2.gg with building a new league. A lot of the future features that we are currently working on seem to be present in what people want in a league (pug system, stats, provided servers, etc.)
Unfortunately this kind of thing takes an incredible amount of time, effort, and skill. The TF2 community would need to be absolutely committed to one solution. I'd be pretty pissed if we finished it and then someone comes up to us and says, "Oh hey, we decided to use *insert other league here*, all your hours of stress and sleepless nights is useless."
If we decide to go this route, whoever makes this new league needs to make it well and lead it well. Otherwise, we'll be back to square one. This is a very big commitment for both the developers [i]and[/i] the community.
phAZEI think at this point it would be best to go with the UGC option rather than the etf2l option. We just need to establish a solid foundation for a pay to play 6s league with proper divisions and people running the league etc.
I completely agree with the solid foundation. If my proposed league does happen, then the admins would consist of people who are very active within the TF2 community. The people who help make this all happen.
[quote=phAZE]I think at this point it would be best to go with the UGC option rather than the etf2l option. We just need to establish a solid foundation for a pay to play 6s league with proper divisions and people running the league etc.[/quote]
I completely agree with the solid foundation. If my proposed league does happen, then the admins would consist of people who are very active within the TF2 community. The people who help make this all happen.
Just remember that it requires a ridiculous amount of work to run a league and most people don't want to spend their free time doing this for free. Putting a website is probably the easiest part. Doing a paying league and what not takes legal knowledge, dealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem, and then you've got to have the admins spending 10 hours a week fixing problems that come up and avoiding admin bias (ugc anyone).
Just remember that it requires a ridiculous amount of work to run a league and most people don't want to spend their free time doing this for free. Putting a website is probably the easiest part. Doing a paying league and what not takes legal knowledge, dealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem, and then you've got to have the admins spending 10 hours a week fixing problems that come up and avoiding admin bias (ugc anyone).
pascalI'd be pretty pissed if we finished it and then someone comes up to us and says, "Oh hey, we decided to use *insert other league here*, all your hours of stress and sleepless nights is useless."
Unless some other league out there is putting a lot more time and effort into their services than you are, I don't see how this can happen. If your league can offer the best solution out there in terms of features and usability, the community will absolutely see it as the number one alternative to ESEA.
Of course if there's money to be made, you can't expect there to be no competition from other leagues who want to assume the same role. If you're not confident that you can provide the best alternative, the time/opportunity costs involved aren't worth the risk.
[quote=pascal]I'd be pretty pissed if we finished it and then someone comes up to us and says, "Oh hey, we decided to use *insert other league here*, all your hours of stress and sleepless nights is useless."[/quote]
Unless some other league out there is putting a lot more time and effort into their services than you are, I don't see how this can happen. If your league can offer the best solution out there in terms of features and usability, the community will absolutely see it as the number one alternative to ESEA.
Of course if there's money to be made, you can't expect there to be no competition from other leagues who want to assume the same role. If you're not confident that you can provide the best alternative, the time/opportunity costs involved aren't worth the risk.
brownymasterJust remember that it requires a ridiculous amount of work to run a league and most people don't want to spend their free time doing this for free. Putting a website is probably the easiest part. Doing a paying league and what not takes legal knowledge, dealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem, and then you've got to have the admins spending 10 hours a week fixing problems that come up and avoiding admin bias (ugc anyone).
Which is why the community needs to step up to help create the best league possible. I'm willing to step up, and to help this get done. I just need the support of the community.
[quote=brownymaster]Just remember that it requires a ridiculous amount of work to run a league and most people don't want to spend their free time doing this for free. Putting a website is probably the easiest part. Doing a paying league and what not takes legal knowledge, dealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem, and then you've got to have the admins spending 10 hours a week fixing problems that come up and avoiding admin bias (ugc anyone).[/quote]
Which is why the community needs to step up to help create the best league possible. I'm willing to step up, and to help this get done. I just need the support of the community.
Really right now it's easy to say a lot, but a few days from now, will people be calm again? If so nothing is going to change. Will the CS:GO community depart from ESEA? Will ESEA remain solvent if other states come after it?
If both of those things turn out in ESEA's favor it will be very difficult for any other upstart league to be a success without overwhelming community support and a tremendous time investment.
Really right now it's easy to say a lot, but a few days from now, will people be calm again? If so nothing is going to change. Will the CS:GO community depart from ESEA? Will ESEA remain solvent if other states come after it?
If both of those things turn out in ESEA's favor it will be very difficult for any other upstart league to be a success without overwhelming community support and a tremendous time investment.
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
She's been there for us. She's down to help, has anybody talked to her?
[quote=DrPloxo]http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
http://teamfortress.tv/forum/thread/14006-meatshot-8-vol-5/6#post-160
She's been there for us. She's down to help, has anybody talked to her?[/quote]
Yeah, I know! I'm adding her.
I'm willing to step up and put my mediocre photoshop skills up for use
I think we just need to identify some people or allow people to step up to lead this league, and then get a league of dedicated casters/players
I'm willing to step up and put my mediocre photoshop skills up for use
I think we just need to identify some people or allow people to step up to lead this league, and then get a league of dedicated casters/players
brownymasterdealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem
AnAkIn's Anti-Cheat is probably the best free and readily available option out there without having to create a client that does just as much shady shit as the current ESEA client.
[quote=brownymaster]dealing with cheaters/anticheat is going to be the biggest problem[/quote]
AnAkIn's Anti-Cheat is probably the best free and readily available option out there without having to create a client that does just as much shady shit as the current ESEA client.
fsXDI'm willing to step up and put my mediocre photoshop skills up for use
I think we just need to identify some people or allow people to step up to lead this league, and then get a league of dedicated casters/players
Well I do have experience in leading communities. I use to own a community of 4000+ minecraft players. While that may seem totally different, the leadership qualities transfer over.
[quote=fsXD]I'm willing to step up and put my mediocre photoshop skills up for use
I think we just need to identify some people or allow people to step up to lead this league, and then get a league of dedicated casters/players[/quote]
Well I do have experience in leading communities. I use to own a community of 4000+ minecraft players. While that may seem totally different, the leadership qualities transfer over.
ETF2L does have a prizepool, but only at the highest division. the prizepool was at 1000 euro = 1342.10 US Dollar spread on the top 3 teams. together with this came also peripherals.
read more about it here
No idea how one would get around finding sponsors to pay for an NA prizepool, but surely with some effort there should sponsors across the pond.
ETF2L does have a prizepool, but only at the highest division. the prizepool was at 1000 euro = 1342.10 US Dollar spread on the top 3 teams. together with this came also peripherals.
read more about it [url=http://etf2l.org/leagues/6v6-season-16-home/]here[/url]
No idea how one would get around finding sponsors to pay for an NA prizepool, but surely with some effort there should sponsors across the pond.
Stochast1cAnAkIn's Anti-Cheat is probably the best free and readily available option out there without having to create a client that does just as much shady shit as the current ESEA client.
Still, it requires a lot of work to actually open demos and review each Cheat complaint filed. I don't doubt human detecting is still very good, but it takes time.
[quote=Stochast1c]AnAkIn's Anti-Cheat is probably the best free and readily available option out there without having to create a client that does just as much shady shit as the current ESEA client.[/quote]
Still, it requires a lot of work to actually open demos and review each Cheat complaint filed. I don't doubt human detecting is still very good, but it takes time.
so far its fairly decent in europe. People contact admins to talk about possible cheaters and give em demos of said game they had suspision on etc. To note I think helberg is the person who has been accused of hacking the most but to this day admins cant find anything wrong
yes it takes time but you have a whole community tipsing you, and thus the witch hunt begins. If you think a person is cheating and its not an official game then just refuse to scrim against them?
so far its fairly decent in europe. People contact admins to talk about possible cheaters and give em demos of said game they had suspision on etc. To note I think helberg is the person who has been accused of hacking the most but to this day admins cant find anything wrong
yes it takes time but you have a whole community tipsing you, and thus the witch hunt begins. If you think a person is cheating and its not an official game then just refuse to scrim against them?