ya better run away from the potential intrusion and be scared of something that has affected literally 0% of the tf2 community rather than thinking that the constant surveillance and 650k pending fine would deter them from fucking with people

Thats what we have done for the past 4 seasons.

I dont agree. sure, a 0 ping environment allows and does produce some crazy shit. will exciting, high level play die without it? hell no. will people stop being interested in the game because there's no super exciting high skill glorious lan to watch? i don't think so
consider our last qf-fest of a lan. as i recall, some of the matches we got from late im and late open playoffs were way more exciting and skill intense than that.

i guess my point is: 'big plays' and 'high level play' aren't nonexistent in online environments, and aren't guaranteed in offline environments.

I actually thought to myself if I would have to explain, other than two teams that will get their money back, but I assumed that would be a given.

You're right. I was going off of this quote from PYYYOUR:

I guess I just assumed it would be the Watch This roster from that. My main point though, was that there are still very high level players that will be moving to CEVO (i.e. pure).

No you didn't.

It's pretty comical that invite players are adding to the very divide that they are trying to mitigate. ESEA has obviously shown to be apathetic and corrupt which shows no promise for tenure as a competitive gaming option(people stop paying for corruption and apathy sooner or later). The recent development of events presents a perfect opportunity for invite players to use their influence in the community to unify a move to a more viable long term solution. Instead they come to piss and moan about how it affects their personal goals and add to the cloud of uncertainty in a change. I guess their team work stops at shooting shit. This is funny because the money for their personal goals don't come to fruition without community support.

ESEA's tf2 league is probably going to die regardless of any shit that is said. Instead of holding on to the sinking ship, help get people to a new ship and sail on. I would rather choose the uncertainty of death than the for sure death the ensues with choosing ESEA.

Not for your competitors, get to go to LAN and play with yourselves. Circle Jerk on LAN.

Why has the majority of mix^ been playing in a top highlander team for the past 4-5 seasons if there's no LAN. Competition can happen without LAN and apparently you're ok with it.

how are invite players trying to mitigate a divide? they are trying to convince people to stay with esea because competition wise its the smartest thing to do???

His point is that when he plays TF2 online he uses half a real computer and you can't possibly expect there to be an even playing field between two teams when one team could easily have higher ping, worse FPS, or whatever. No one wants to invest time and money into a game when there isn't potential for a fair test of skill (LAN). If I were dummy I would never dedicate my time to a game to see if I could be the best team if I knew the finals would have me playing on my wooden computer against 6 players with lightboost monitors. Even if he bought a computer (a lot of money), his ping is high and ping makes an enormous difference. If you imagine a finals game with two evenly matched teams, you don't want ping and hardware being the difference maker. And that's one of the main arguments for LAN, no matter which game you play.

If people are making the move to CEVO, blaze will be teamless. Unless you enjoy playing with a 120 ping soldier during finals. (I'm kidding everyone knows blaze is always good). The point is, he's definitely not as good as he is when everyone has the same ping. And that's a real concern. You don't want to be forced to play with players with good pings.

will most people? debateable

will the people who would be playing in those matches? definitely

And if you don't believe whatever clock just said. Just take a look at prior open finals. Although it's just open, players were constantly getting ddossed and having issues with their computers.

Imagine this on higher levels where it would be more advertised and have more trolls getting ready to ddos players they dislike. (It wouldn't be a pleasant experience)

oh, i c

And ESEA really did nothing about that, even though it's illegal to DDOS.

ok fzero please in your infinite wisdom tell me how you protect a single tf2 player from a fucking botnet in the phillipines im waiting

THATS EASY JUST UNPLUG THE INTERNET

I never said that I have any idea. I only said that I don't think they did much to stop it. I would think that other games would have the same problems, does it happen as often as TF2?

eg's dota team has been ddos'd out of their last 5 online tournaments

when royalty played l4d2 we'd get ddos'd all the time

both of these situations are equally important, obviously

Ok, I didn't have any idea, which is why I asked the question if it happens often. I don't really watch video games, so I was curious to know. I was wrong, no biggie.

are we all just ignoring the fact that tri is back and posting?

when was the last time you posted something that wasn't complete and utter garbage?

The last time you made a good map

LANs can get DDoSed too, unless you don't have the venue connected to the internet. ESEA LAN is, as Killing wouldn't have to tell everyone to sign off of friends before matches.

Do you people who think the malware issue not being big of a deal, remember that this program killed computers overnight and costed people real money and to our knowledge if still active can still do this if your computer has not successfully uninstalled the treacherous software? Do any of you understand this? For some reason unknown to me, I don't think you guys realize the gravity of such an intrusion to your privacy and potential damage to your property. I'm going to go on an assumption that none of you (that I've read) have brought that up, and don't think the malware intrusion was such a bad thing after all. Also, the argument Steam has 'malware' or 'drivers that stay on your computer after uninstalling', they have a service for the intentions of protecting your account and data you've made to make changes to their games via cloud service. Not to harvest your computing power by force and collect pocket change. Let's also not forget that Nvidia is partnered with Valve to make user-agreement (Big difference here.) hardware diagnostics tools to collect large batches of useful statistics to view the different demographics of the Steam user base and are optimizing their drivers accordingly. The purpose of Steam's behind-the-scenes drivers are primarily to catch naughty users stealing games from their service and collect information about what hardware you're using to play what games. Not to take control of your computer, (full administrative access, mind you. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS?! Anti-cheats don't operate with techniques to give somebody remote access to your computer. Just thought you guys should know that.) and harvest your computer's resources to their own personal gain that you did not know existed and were told off that it's not that big of a deal when somebody poked around? How does ESEA even remotely seem like a company to give money to if they are willing to deliberately lie and lie continuously to their user base? So what if CEVO can't be the league we need right now? What if ESEA had other plans to manipulate their customer's property for their own benefit? We don't know these things and so far with ESEA's track record, I don't think it'd be anything good. The courts have settled it, and ESEA is going to go back to finding ways to make really easy money off of the ignorant userbase they've got, regardless if it means violating your rights. Think about that; take as much time as you need.

That's the thing though. While you make incredibly good points, they only apply to ~24 players a season. I can completely understand why the high level players that regularly make LAN want to stay with ESEA (I'd feel the same if I were one of them). However a very large portion of the community does not get to play on LAN, and they don't want to deal with ESEA anymore, hence the big move to CEVO. It would really be disappointing if all the LAN players quit the game if ESEA drops tf2 and CEVO doesn't have a LAN yet, but the game will still be there for the rest of us to play, and there will be new players that come along and become the best players in the game.

The only way that most of us would be affected by not having LAN finals is that the grand finals we all love to watch won't be on an even playing field for the players. They'll still be good games and we'll all watch them, but for those involved it might not be as great as if they were at LAN. I, for one, am willing to put up with that, especially cause I believe there's a good chance that in a few seasons down the road, we'll be able to hold CEVO LAN finals at an already established local LAN.

i still have the client installed, am i going to die?

??? ESEA's goals are not to provide healthy competition, it is to get paid and keep the illusion of power in seamless automation. I believe the "watch this" story gives great credence to my point.

I think the point you don't get about the difference between the ESEA client and other programs mason, is that any software you install in your computer has potential access to your stuff, including your OS, your antivirus, your hardware drivers, your word processing tools, hell even your favorite pdf reader. What differences all of this software from ESEA's client is that not one of this programs have used my CPU to mine bitcoins without my consent.

So wait let me see if I can get this right - some people are upset that cevo is taking away from a large pool of esea's userbase and destroying their hopes of getting a lan which caters to their (arguable) influential group in this community. Because they're assuming not getting a lan or increased prize pot will discourage people of higher skill to participate. So their sense of validation comes from a one time event in which less than 10% of the entire community gets to participate in. Secondary validation also coming from a small amount of $$$, nothing to replace a job or anything serious irl. The community generally looks up to this group.

Ok.

Then there are the people who are clearly pissed off at esea for their shit, er 'mistakes.' One being a program which mined for bitcoins and the other being an anti-cheating system still remaining on hardware after uninstalling the client. Others are also unhappy with the quality of service. This group of people accounts for 80% maybe 90% of the community that is not motivated by a one-time event or $$$ to play competitively.

Ok.

Then there are 3 major gaming leagues. One that doesn't really cater to the 6's format and is considered inferior. Then a professional league that offers a lan and a decent prize pot. And now a league that was previously unpopular with players until their recent departure from esea.

Now let's look at the situation. Ugc doesn't really accommodate 6's as well as this community wants. Esea screwed up twice and offers shit service. So here's the question - in this whole situation, who's actually making an effort to provide the BETTER option?

So many people are talking but who's actually doing something about it? Some of you might say 'wait should there even be a better option? Things are fine as they were.' Concerning the state of tf2 as a niche gaming community and the fact that a good people WILL leave esea regardless of what other leagues have to offer, yes. This group of people will not be convinced. They're not leaving esea because cevo, they're leaving esea period. Can't stop this train.

Now cevo. Let's look at what they're doing. Even though its free atm, it will probably benefit from an increase in its tf2 userbase. Already running in loss (meaning no decent community yet), cevo has stepped up and is approaching YOU to come to THEM. Considering how esea has treated this community, shouldn't it be the other way around? Cevo doesn't have any obligation to start catering to all your needs on a whim but they have PROVEN they are willing to listen by working with some influential people in this community like Nahanni. They are willing to work on the prize pots, maybe even consider a future pay to play league as well. Out of all the leagues so far, this is the only one that's actually listening to you. What is esea doing for you and your legit concerns? Issuing 10 year bans? Nice.

I've been following the threads and maybe 1 person here did something on behalf of (maybe even unintentionally) the group wanting to stay in esea - and they wrote up a letter to esea expressing their dissatisfaction. You who say 'we should be staying in esea' what are you doing to show for it? While the rest of the people who WON'T be going to lan are trying to support cevo to start something new, what are you doing with esea that offers a better alternative? Only 1 person wrote a letter, maybe this thread counts too but that's it. If you care so much, show us.

Dear 10%,

A game is only fun when there are people to play with. While you may not like to play with people of less skill, you still need a player base like us to survive. Because some of us not just motivated by a lan to enjoy this game. So if you're caught up in that much of self-interest, do something about it just like the guys who are working with cevo. Do something because so far you've just been sitting around and not having anything to show for your dissatisfaction cept a couple of apologetic posts. Good luck.