It's irritating seeing all these people talk about cevo as if they didn't allow a corrupt admin run the tf2 league the whole entire time they had a TF2 league.... and they did NOTHING about it. I hope they change their ways in that regard. as do I hope esea wont pull anymore nonsense.... this arguement is pretty much worthless though. I personally have faith in both leagues to handle their shit
ESEA's possible demise?
posted in
TF2 General Discussion
It's irritating seeing all these people talk about cevo as if they didn't allow a corrupt admin run the tf2 league the whole entire time they had a TF2 league.... and they did NOTHING about it. I hope they change their ways in that regard. as do I hope esea wont pull anymore nonsense.... this arguement is pretty much worthless though. I personally have faith in both leagues to handle their shit
SnowyHey man, I didn't kill ESEA. What are you preaching at me for?
I'm just pointing out the futility of your campaign. Nobody's going to read this and be like "holy shit why don't we feed ESEA a few thousand dollars so they can keep supporting TF2?" What's dead is dead and it's not coming back (at least for a while).
That's the problem though. The newer players simply don't understand while all the guys who have been here for years do. This isn't "my" campaign. It's common sense for the people who have been around. You're going to be paying money in either league. It seems like competition isn't for you or KAMO so you guys should just play in some good public servers where you can sometimes win and just have fun. I already said I don't care personally which league I play in I just want to have fun and compete. It doesn't change the fact that killing ESEA-TF2 will dramatically alter the competitive community forever. Which to me, is not worth it. Most people know i'm not the biggest fan of ESEA because of the bitcoin crap but it is what it is. And it is the best league right now all around.
[quote=Snowy]Hey man, I didn't kill ESEA. What are you preaching at me for?
I'm just pointing out the futility of your campaign. Nobody's going to read this and be like "holy shit why don't we feed ESEA a few thousand dollars so they can keep supporting TF2?" What's dead is dead and it's not coming back (at least for a while).[/quote]
That's the problem though. The newer players simply don't understand while all the guys who have been here for years do. This isn't "my" campaign. It's common sense for the people who have been around. You're going to be paying money in either league. It seems like competition isn't for you or KAMO so you guys should just play in some good public servers where you can sometimes win and just have fun. I already said I don't care personally which league I play in I just want to have fun and compete. It doesn't change the fact that killing ESEA-TF2 will dramatically alter the competitive community forever. Which to me, is not worth it. Most people know i'm not the biggest fan of ESEA because of the bitcoin crap but it is what it is. And it is the best league right now all around.
I'm just pointing out the futility of your campaign. Nobody's going to read this and be like "holy shit why don't we feed ESEA a few thousand dollars so they can keep supporting TF2?" What's dead is dead and it's not coming back (at least for a while).[/quote]
That's the problem though. The newer players simply don't understand while all the guys who have been here for years do. This isn't "my" campaign. It's common sense for the people who have been around. You're going to be paying money in either league. It seems like competition isn't for you or KAMO so you guys should just play in some good public servers where you can sometimes win and just have fun. I already said I don't care personally which league I play in I just want to have fun and compete. It doesn't change the fact that killing ESEA-TF2 will dramatically alter the competitive community forever. Which to me, is not worth it. Most people know i'm not the biggest fan of ESEA because of the bitcoin crap but it is what it is. And it is the best league right now all around.
In the case that ESEA does drop TF2, you should probably make a cevo roster. You don't have to pay up but if ESEA does drop TF2 then you can at least you can get your team on that roster and play in CEVO as apposed to doing nothing for a season.
edit: the deadline to actually make a roster is the 17th and you have a few more days after that to decide if you want to pay up and play.
In the case that ESEA does drop TF2, you should probably make a cevo roster. You don't have to pay up but if ESEA does drop TF2 then you can at least you can get your team on that roster and play in CEVO as apposed to doing nothing for a season.
edit: the deadline to actually make a roster is the 17th and you have a few more days after that to decide if you want to pay up and play.
edit: the deadline to actually make a roster is the 17th and you have a few more days after that to decide if you want to pay up and play.
play both leagues in order to give tf2 the best chance
play both leagues in order to give tf2 the best chance
blinKThe question is: Why do we need to let ESEA die as long as they're not running malware on their client? Is there any logical reason?
People aren't trying to "let ESEA die." Most players aren't concerned with supporting a LAN or anything like that, they just want to play TF2. The reality is that many people can't or won't play in both leagues at the same time (even more if they might be playing UGC). CEVO has convinced them that it is a better league for them than ESEA, and for good reasons, given that CEVO is significantly cheaper. Main/Invite-level players might see significant value in ESEA's offerings that validates the cost difference, but that is a small minority of players compared to the lower-level players that constitute the vast majority of the whole playerbase.
[quote=blinK]The question is: Why do we need to let ESEA die as long as they're not running malware on their client? Is there any logical reason?[/quote]
People aren't trying to "let ESEA die." Most players aren't concerned with supporting a LAN or anything like that, they just want to play TF2. The reality is that many people can't or won't play in both leagues at the same time (even more if they might be playing UGC). CEVO has convinced them that it is a better league for them than ESEA, and for good reasons, given that CEVO is significantly cheaper. Main/Invite-level players might see significant value in ESEA's offerings that validates the cost difference, but that is a small minority of players compared to the lower-level players that constitute the vast majority of the whole playerbase.
People aren't trying to "let ESEA die." Most players aren't concerned with supporting a LAN or anything like that, they just want to play TF2. The reality is that many people can't or won't play in both leagues at the same time (even more if they might be playing UGC). CEVO has convinced them that it is a better league for them than ESEA, and for good reasons, given that CEVO is significantly cheaper. Main/Invite-level players might see significant value in ESEA's offerings that validates the cost difference, but that is a small minority of players compared to the lower-level players that constitute the vast majority of the whole playerbase.
Go back to the main questions:
Why switch?
What is better and how?
State the facts as of right now please.
Even for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place. I don't know many people who strive to play for years to just stick around in open. Most people have the intentions of moving up the ranks and enjoying the competition. It's like the single player game that has no ending. It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.
I've said my peace I just wanted to make people aware of the very real consequences. CEVO can be a great thing in time. I'd suggest if you only have time to play in one league then play ESEA. If you have time for two, then do both. This of course is what's best for the community as a whole, not just for yourself. That's how I see it anyways. Or be selfish/cheap and go for the cheaper league with worse competition and inevitably kill the community much faster. The choice is ours.
Go back to the main questions:
Why switch?
What is better and how?
State the facts as of right now please.
Even for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place. I don't know many people who strive to play for years to just stick around in open. Most people have the intentions of moving up the ranks and enjoying the competition. It's like the single player game that has no ending. It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.
I've said my peace I just wanted to make people aware of the very real consequences. CEVO can be a great thing in time. I'd suggest if you only have time to play in one league then play ESEA. If you have time for two, then do both. This of course is what's best for the community as a whole, not just for yourself. That's how I see it anyways. Or be selfish/cheap and go for the cheaper league with worse competition and inevitably kill the community much faster. The choice is ours.
Why switch?
What is better and how?
State the facts as of right now please.
Even for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place. I don't know many people who strive to play for years to just stick around in open. Most people have the intentions of moving up the ranks and enjoying the competition. It's like the single player game that has no ending. It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.
I've said my peace I just wanted to make people aware of the very real consequences. CEVO can be a great thing in time. I'd suggest if you only have time to play in one league then play ESEA. If you have time for two, then do both. This of course is what's best for the community as a whole, not just for yourself. That's how I see it anyways. Or be selfish/cheap and go for the cheaper league with worse competition and inevitably kill the community much faster. The choice is ours.
Good Games at LAN: Mix^ vs LiT, Mix^ vs .iT in the finals
Bland Games at LAN: Pretty much everything else.
So . .. why aren't we listening to mix^?
Good Games at LAN: Mix^ vs LiT, Mix^ vs .iT in the finals
Bland Games at LAN: Pretty much everything else.
So . .. why aren't we listening to mix^?
Bland Games at LAN: Pretty much everything else.
So . .. why aren't we listening to mix^?
BlinK, you keep saying "the newer players don't understand".
The thing is, the 6s scene gets most of it's recruitment from people who watch 6s. We do understand. We might not have multiple seasons of ESEA under our belt, but some/many of us have been watching the scene for multiple seasons at least. I don't think you're telling anyone anything they don't know.
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. Saying "you don't understand" is condescending. We just see things differently than you do - personally, I don't want to get fucked and dismissed by a league that I've never seen as anything less than corrupt and a pyramid scheme. You are more or less literally asking me to donate my time and money to a league that I've seen almost nothing but complaints about from it's players.
I'd say "sure, we'll play both leagues", but ESEA has 2 match nights a week, CEVO has 2, UGC 6s has 1, UGC HL has 1... playing both leagues would mean 5/6 match nights a week for most of my team, and it's highly unlikely that we'd improve at that rate.
BlinK, you keep saying "the newer players don't understand".
The thing is, the 6s scene gets most of it's recruitment from people who watch 6s. We do understand. We might not have multiple seasons of ESEA under our belt, but some/many of us have been watching the scene for multiple seasons at least. I don't think you're telling anyone anything they don't know.
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. Saying "you don't understand" is condescending. We just see things differently than you do - personally, I don't want to get fucked and dismissed by a league that I've never seen as anything less than corrupt and a pyramid scheme. You are more or less literally asking me to donate my time and money to a league that I've seen almost nothing but complaints about from it's players.
I'd say "sure, we'll play both leagues", but ESEA has 2 match nights a week, CEVO has 2, UGC 6s has 1, UGC HL has 1... playing both leagues would mean 5/6 match nights a week for most of my team, and it's highly unlikely that we'd improve at that rate.
The thing is, the 6s scene gets most of it's recruitment from people who watch 6s. We do understand. We might not have multiple seasons of ESEA under our belt, but some/many of us have been watching the scene for multiple seasons at least. I don't think you're telling anyone anything they don't know.
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. Saying "you don't understand" is condescending. We just see things differently than you do - personally, I don't want to get fucked and dismissed by a league that I've never seen as anything less than corrupt and a pyramid scheme. You are more or less literally asking me to donate my time and money to a league that I've seen almost nothing but complaints about from it's players.
I'd say "sure, we'll play both leagues", but ESEA has 2 match nights a week, CEVO has 2, UGC 6s has 1, UGC HL has 1... playing both leagues would mean 5/6 match nights a week for most of my team, and it's highly unlikely that we'd improve at that rate.
to expect people to play both leagues is silly, people don't have that kind of time, I know for sure that I don't.
to expect people to play both leagues is silly, people don't have that kind of time, I know for sure that I don't.
Website, LAN and everything else aside:
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
Website, LAN and everything else aside:
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
Oops forgot to bring up one last point which is a shot at ESEA but it's still valid.
We had 3 divisions for the longest time and everything was fine and dandy. We switch to 4 and now we can't fill the bottom division. If for some reason we can't fill the open division I think they should just re-align the divisions back to 3 and keep the league going. 50+ teams is still plenty. We did it before why can't we do it again? 8 in invite, 16 in IM, 30ish in Open.
Strongsuit i'm not trying to disrespect newer players in any way. Maybe you do understand but some people invested a lot of time and money to compete in this league and move up the ranks. That could be you one day down the road if this situation ever arises again. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. If you're playing competitively you should have some kind of goals in mind. Since ESEA is the highest competition i'd think your goal would be to make it to the top and win. If you were a baseball player would you want to win the minor league trophy or the major league trophy? There's always going to be differences because people value different things. I'm not trying to take shots at anyone in particular just speaking very bluntly and honestly. In whatever it is you decide to do though, all I am saying is think about the big picture and the consequences that could result from your decisions. That's all. Nobody is a bad guy here I just really don't want to see a community fallout over something that is totally avoidable and not even needed.
Oops forgot to bring up one last point which is a shot at ESEA but it's still valid.
We had 3 divisions for the longest time and everything was fine and dandy. We switch to 4 and now we can't fill the bottom division. If for some reason we can't fill the open division I think they should just re-align the divisions back to 3 and keep the league going. 50+ teams is still plenty. We did it before why can't we do it again? 8 in invite, 16 in IM, 30ish in Open.
Strongsuit i'm not trying to disrespect newer players in any way. Maybe you do understand but some people invested a lot of time and money to compete in this league and move up the ranks. That could be you one day down the road if this situation ever arises again. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. If you're playing competitively you should have some kind of goals in mind. Since ESEA is the highest competition i'd think your goal would be to make it to the top and win. If you were a baseball player would you want to win the minor league trophy or the major league trophy? There's always going to be differences because people value different things. I'm not trying to take shots at anyone in particular just speaking very bluntly and honestly. In whatever it is you decide to do though, all I am saying is think about the big picture and the consequences that could result from your decisions. That's all. Nobody is a bad guy here I just really don't want to see a community fallout over something that is totally avoidable and not even needed.
We had 3 divisions for the longest time and everything was fine and dandy. We switch to 4 and now we can't fill the bottom division. If for some reason we can't fill the open division I think they should just re-align the divisions back to 3 and keep the league going. 50+ teams is still plenty. We did it before why can't we do it again? 8 in invite, 16 in IM, 30ish in Open.
Strongsuit i'm not trying to disrespect newer players in any way. Maybe you do understand but some people invested a lot of time and money to compete in this league and move up the ranks. That could be you one day down the road if this situation ever arises again. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. If you're playing competitively you should have some kind of goals in mind. Since ESEA is the highest competition i'd think your goal would be to make it to the top and win. If you were a baseball player would you want to win the minor league trophy or the major league trophy? There's always going to be differences because people value different things. I'm not trying to take shots at anyone in particular just speaking very bluntly and honestly. In whatever it is you decide to do though, all I am saying is think about the big picture and the consequences that could result from your decisions. That's all. Nobody is a bad guy here I just really don't want to see a community fallout over something that is totally avoidable and not even needed.
Season 15 LAN was one of the most entertaining and competitive LANs I've watched in my 5 seasons participating in this game. ESEA has had 15 (MORE OR LESS) successful seasons, which is largely unprecedented for most competitive FPS games that have ever been played in NA. TEN of those seasons have resulted in actual LANs where you are given a hotel discount, your own computer to play at, and a venue that fosters competitive play.
ESEA shouldn't have to even advertise to get interest in their league, yet here we are sitting with a barren open. It's amazing how hard and fast this league has fallen as soon as viable competition appears to have finally rolled around. The writing is on the wall folks.
I will find it disappointing if ESEA goes down without much of a fight for TF2 on their part. If you think about it, that hints that they have not been turning a decent profit off of TF2 for several seasons, which means they have been carrying TF2 on their shoulders for quite some time. Not to imply that they are saints and that ESEA has been rainbows and unicorns these past years, but they have obviously had a heavy hand in keeping the game afloat and competitive for this long.
Season 15 LAN was one of the most entertaining and competitive LANs I've watched in my 5 seasons participating in this game. ESEA has had 15 (MORE OR LESS) successful seasons, which is largely unprecedented for most competitive FPS games that have ever been played in NA. TEN of those seasons have resulted in actual LANs where you are given a hotel discount, your own computer to play at, and a venue that fosters competitive play.
ESEA shouldn't have to even advertise to get interest in their league, yet here we are sitting with a barren open. It's amazing how hard and fast this league has fallen as soon as viable competition appears to have finally rolled around. The writing is on the wall folks.
I will find it disappointing if ESEA goes down without much of a fight for TF2 on their part. If you think about it, that hints that they have not been turning a decent profit off of TF2 for several seasons, which means they have been carrying TF2 on their shoulders for quite some time. Not to imply that they are saints and that ESEA has been rainbows and unicorns these past years, but they have obviously had a heavy hand in keeping the game afloat and competitive for this long.
ESEA shouldn't have to even advertise to get interest in their league, yet here we are sitting with a barren open. It's amazing how hard and fast this league has fallen as soon as viable competition appears to have finally rolled around. The writing is on the wall folks.
I will find it disappointing if ESEA goes down without much of a fight for TF2 on their part. If you think about it, that hints that they have not been turning a decent profit off of TF2 for several seasons, which means they have been carrying TF2 on their shoulders for quite some time. Not to imply that they are saints and that ESEA has been rainbows and unicorns these past years, but they have obviously had a heavy hand in keeping the game afloat and competitive for this long.
SetsulWebsite, LAN and everything else aside:
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
Setsul: Go back to the original question. If the competition is already in one league, and has superior everything else, why switch in the first place? What is the point? In a perfect world lets say you get everyone to switch over even mixup. Still a worse website, and no LAN. What would we GAIN out of it? Nothing. It's going to be the same thing with less perks unless you're a brand new player with no goals of moving up the ranks.
[quote=Setsul]Website, LAN and everything else aside:
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?[/quote]
[b]Setsul:[/b] Go back to the original question. If the competition is already in one league, and has superior everything else, why switch in the first place? What is the point? In a perfect world lets say you get everyone to switch over even mixup. Still a worse website, and no LAN. What would we GAIN out of it? Nothing. It's going to be the same thing with less perks unless you're a brand new player with no goals of moving up the ranks.
How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?[/quote]
[b]Setsul:[/b] Go back to the original question. If the competition is already in one league, and has superior everything else, why switch in the first place? What is the point? In a perfect world lets say you get everyone to switch over even mixup. Still a worse website, and no LAN. What would we GAIN out of it? Nothing. It's going to be the same thing with less perks unless you're a brand new player with no goals of moving up the ranks.
strongsuit
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players.
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in
[quote=strongsuit]
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. [/quote]
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. [/quote]
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in
blinKWhy switch?
What is better and how?
CEVO is cheaper; that alone will convince many to choose CEVO over ESEA. Sure, ESEA might have a better website/stats/prizes/whatever right now, but that's not what most people are paying their league fees for; people are paying to play the game, which they can do in CEVO for a lower cost. It's also possible that, in a season or two, CEVO's entire system will be better than ESEA's.
Additionally, CEVO does not have the recent bad blood that ESEA has. In the past, CEVO was worse than ESEA, but CEVO has made huge efforts into convincing players that they have improved, and that effort has largely worked. What has ESEA publicly done to show that they have improved? Their strategy of offering more of the same is not going to work for people who do not want more of the same.
blinKEven for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place.
...
It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.
There are a plethora of Open- and IM-level teams registered to play in CEVO right now. Most teams serious about improving spend more time playing scrims than matches, and scrims are not dependent on any league. Therefore, there is no reason that players below Main (which is the vast majority of the TF2 playerbase) can't improve while playing in CEVO. Will it make it difficult for Main/Invite teams to improve if teams like Mixup quit? Probably. But why should a UGC graduate care about them?
[quote=blinK]Why switch?
What is better and how?[/quote]
CEVO is cheaper; that alone will convince many to choose CEVO over ESEA. Sure, ESEA might have a better website/stats/prizes/whatever right now, but that's not what most people are paying their league fees for; people are paying to [b]play the game[/b], which they can do in CEVO for a lower cost. It's also possible that, in a season or two, CEVO's entire system will be better than ESEA's.
Additionally, CEVO does not have the recent bad blood that ESEA has. In the past, CEVO was worse than ESEA, but CEVO has made huge efforts into convincing players that they have improved, and that effort has largely worked. What has ESEA publicly done to show that they have improved? Their strategy of offering more of the same is not going to work for people who [b]do not[/b] want more of the same.
[quote=blinK]Even for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place.
...
It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.[/quote]
There are a plethora of Open- and IM-level teams registered to play in CEVO [b]right now[/b]. Most teams serious about improving spend more time playing scrims than matches, and scrims are not dependent on any league. Therefore, there is no reason that players below Main (which is the vast majority of the TF2 playerbase) can't improve while playing in CEVO. Will it make it difficult for Main/Invite teams to improve if teams like Mixup quit? Probably. But why should a UGC graduate care about [i]them[/i]?
What is better and how?[/quote]
CEVO is cheaper; that alone will convince many to choose CEVO over ESEA. Sure, ESEA might have a better website/stats/prizes/whatever right now, but that's not what most people are paying their league fees for; people are paying to [b]play the game[/b], which they can do in CEVO for a lower cost. It's also possible that, in a season or two, CEVO's entire system will be better than ESEA's.
Additionally, CEVO does not have the recent bad blood that ESEA has. In the past, CEVO was worse than ESEA, but CEVO has made huge efforts into convincing players that they have improved, and that effort has largely worked. What has ESEA publicly done to show that they have improved? Their strategy of offering more of the same is not going to work for people who [b]do not[/b] want more of the same.
[quote=blinK]Even for newer players ESEA is obviously the better choice. If you don't want to pay to compete in a competitive league with prizes then you shouldn't be there in the first place.
...
It's my opinion but to me competition is fun. For others it might not be fun. That's what pubs and tf2center is for.[/quote]
There are a plethora of Open- and IM-level teams registered to play in CEVO [b]right now[/b]. Most teams serious about improving spend more time playing scrims than matches, and scrims are not dependent on any league. Therefore, there is no reason that players below Main (which is the vast majority of the TF2 playerbase) can't improve while playing in CEVO. Will it make it difficult for Main/Invite teams to improve if teams like Mixup quit? Probably. But why should a UGC graduate care about [i]them[/i]?
blinKStrongsuit i'm not trying to disrespect newer players in any way. Maybe you do understand but some people invested a lot of time and money to compete in this league and move up the ranks. That could be you one day down the road if this situation ever arises again. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. If you're playing competitively you should have some kind of goals in mind. Since ESEA is the highest competition i'd think your goal would be to make it to the top and win. If you were a baseball player would you want to win the minor league trophy or the major league trophy? There's always going to be differences because people value different things. I'm not trying to take shots at anyone in particular just speaking very bluntly and honestly. In whatever it is you decide to do though, all I am saying is think about the big picture and the consequences that could result from your decisions. That's all. Nobody is a bad guy here I just really don't want to see a community fallout over something that is totally avoidable and not even needed.
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.
[quote=blinK]Strongsuit i'm not trying to disrespect newer players in any way. Maybe you do understand but some people invested a lot of time and money to compete in this league and move up the ranks. That could be you one day down the road if this situation ever arises again. Put yourself in someone elses shoes. If you're playing competitively you should have some kind of goals in mind. Since ESEA is the highest competition i'd think your goal would be to make it to the top and win. If you were a baseball player would you want to win the minor league trophy or the major league trophy? There's always going to be differences because people value different things. I'm not trying to take shots at anyone in particular just speaking very bluntly and honestly. In whatever it is you decide to do though, all I am saying is think about the big picture and the consequences that could result from your decisions. That's all. Nobody is a bad guy here I just really don't want to see a community fallout over something that is totally avoidable and not even needed.[/quote]
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.
kevstrongsuit
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players.
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in
I don't have an issue with my money going to the best players in the league I play in - I say that that's all that playing ESEA-O has to offer without sarcasm. I just see playing CEVO-O as a better deal.
[quote=kev][quote=strongsuit]
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. [/quote]
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in[/quote]
I don't have an issue with my money going to the best players in the league I play in - I say that that's all that playing ESEA-O has to [b]offer[/b] without sarcasm. I just see playing CEVO-O as a better deal.
You are asking newer players to take one on the chin and like it, though. Open isn't a good deal and it doesn't offer anything except the chance to finance a league that's only particularly beneficial/worthwhile for the higher div players. [/quote]
i see this posted in a lot of threads and i don't get the logic
why even play a competitive game if you think like this? your money is gonna go to the best players in any league you compete in[/quote]
I don't have an issue with my money going to the best players in the league I play in - I say that that's all that playing ESEA-O has to [b]offer[/b] without sarcasm. I just see playing CEVO-O as a better deal.
Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?
Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?
If being cheaper is the only reason for you that's silly. That's not enough to convince me. CEVO is a bit cheaper but that's the only point you have. It's cheaper for reasons too, like LAN and server providing. $7 a month isn't a lot of money.
Why should you care about the top division? If you're a true competitor you want to make it to the top and beat those guys straight up. Not kill the league to get them to quit to make your road to the top easier. We've been doing this for 15 seasons why is it all of a sudden too expensive to play? Without the top division our game has no exposure. The competitive community would be a joke. You think people would pay to send top 6's UGC teams to a LAN? Not trying to take a jab at anybody just using it as a comparison.
Open players pay the same amount as everyone else in the league. Actually higher divisions pay more. It's not that open provides all the money for the inviters. It's that people are paying to compete in a league with cash prizes and MULTIPLE divisions. If that's not for you then there are thousands of public servers that are f2p.
If being cheaper is the only reason for you that's silly. That's not enough to convince me. CEVO is a bit cheaper but that's the only point you have. It's cheaper for reasons too, like LAN and server providing. $7 a month isn't a lot of money.
Why should you care about the top division? If you're a true competitor you want to make it to the top and beat those guys straight up. Not kill the league to get them to quit to make your road to the top easier. We've been doing this for 15 seasons why is it all of a sudden too expensive to play? Without the top division our game has no exposure. The competitive community would be a joke. You think people would pay to send top 6's UGC teams to a LAN? Not trying to take a jab at anybody just using it as a comparison.
Open players pay the same amount as everyone else in the league. Actually higher divisions pay more. It's not that open provides all the money for the inviters. It's that people are paying to compete in a league with cash prizes and MULTIPLE divisions. If that's not for you then there are thousands of public servers that are f2p.
Why should you care about the top division? If you're a true competitor you want to make it to the top and beat those guys straight up. Not kill the league to get them to quit to make your road to the top easier. We've been doing this for 15 seasons why is it all of a sudden too expensive to play? Without the top division our game has no exposure. The competitive community would be a joke. You think people would pay to send top 6's UGC teams to a LAN? Not trying to take a jab at anybody just using it as a comparison.
Open players pay the same amount as everyone else in the league. Actually higher divisions pay more. It's not that open provides all the money for the inviters. It's that people are paying to compete in a league with cash prizes and MULTIPLE divisions. If that's not for you then there are thousands of public servers that are f2p.
EggplantOh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.
[quote=Eggplant]Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?[/quote]
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.
SetsulHow do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
Cevo and ESEA competition are pretty much the same level, it's not like cevo is all new players. The difference is that esea has a lot more to play for, a lot more to be competitive for, doing well in esea is a bigger deal because the league is more prestigious and there is more to be won. The players though, are the same.
I know some people will say they don't care about growing the game or whatever, they just want to play and have fun. That's all fine, but really if esea tf2 dies the game is dead after maybe 2 meager seasons of cevo. I think cevo is a great league to have added on to the scene, having multiple popular leagues brings more attention, more people wanting to win with more prizes, more players, etc. But I really want to see tf2 actually grow.
If esea dies, the amount of top players that will quit, or stop trying, I'd assume is at 50%. Stream numbers in tf2 for matches have gone down by a lot over the past year, and if all the top players quit, even though there are new players on the rise that people in comp tf2 now, spectators won't know them very well and nobody will care to watch the streams. At that point, no one new is really joining competitive tf2, while people continue to quit.
This isn't just about the good of invite players though, as I know an outspoken open player will tell me I'm only looking out for myself. I'm looking out for tf2 in general. No one here wants this game to die, I've wanted it to grow since I started playing competitive, and after last lan I started to really like playing again. (I know if I didn't have the opportunity to make lan and chill with my team again, I would no longer care.)
2nd lastly, this season of invite I think will be one of the best seasons of invite there will be to date. There are arguably 3, maybe 4 teams that could win 1st, and 5 teams vying for 4th. Pretty much every match this season is going to be really influential to the final standings of the league, and I really think if there was anytime to bring new people into tf2, rather than worrying about everything else going on with leagues, it would be much more beneficial to be trying to hype up this season with a ton of content, streaming, doing whatever to get people interested because this season is going to be awesome. I really think that if this season is hyped up enough, the quality is the best its been, and we drag in a ton of viewers for a really good season of tf2, then the game could start booming again like it seemed to start doing about a year ago till it died down.
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.
[quote=Setsul]How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?[/quote]
Cevo and ESEA competition are pretty much the same level, it's not like cevo is all new players. The difference is that esea has a lot more to play for, a lot more to be competitive for, doing well in esea is a bigger deal because the league is more prestigious and there is more to be won. The players though, are the same.
I know some people will say they don't care about growing the game or whatever, they just want to play and have fun. That's all fine, but really if esea tf2 dies the game is dead after maybe 2 meager seasons of cevo. I think cevo is a great league to have added on to the scene, having multiple popular leagues brings more attention, more people wanting to win with more prizes, more players, etc. But I really want to see tf2 actually grow.
If esea dies, the amount of top players that will quit, or stop trying, I'd assume is at 50%. Stream numbers in tf2 for matches have gone down by a lot over the past year, and if all the top players quit, even though there are new players on the rise that people in comp tf2 now, spectators won't know them very well and nobody will care to watch the streams. At that point, no one new is really joining competitive tf2, while people continue to quit.
This isn't just about the good of invite players though, as I know an outspoken open player will tell me I'm only looking out for myself. I'm looking out for tf2 in general. No one here wants this game to die, I've wanted it to grow since I started playing competitive, and after last lan I started to really like playing again. (I know if I didn't have the opportunity to make lan and chill with my team again, I would no longer care.)
2nd lastly, this season of invite I think will be one of the best seasons of invite there will be to date. There are arguably 3, maybe 4 teams that could win 1st, and 5 teams vying for 4th. Pretty much every match this season is going to be really influential to the final standings of the league, and I really think if there was anytime to bring new people into tf2, rather than worrying about everything else going on with leagues, it would be much more beneficial to be trying to hype up this season with a ton of content, streaming, doing whatever to get people interested because this season is going to be awesome. I really think that if this season is hyped up enough, the quality is the best its been, and we drag in a ton of viewers for a really good season of tf2, then the game could start booming again like it seemed to start doing about a year ago till it died down.
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.
Cevo and ESEA competition are pretty much the same level, it's not like cevo is all new players. The difference is that esea has a lot more to play for, a lot more to be competitive for, doing well in esea is a bigger deal because the league is more prestigious and there is more to be won. The players though, are the same.
I know some people will say they don't care about growing the game or whatever, they just want to play and have fun. That's all fine, but really if esea tf2 dies the game is dead after maybe 2 meager seasons of cevo. I think cevo is a great league to have added on to the scene, having multiple popular leagues brings more attention, more people wanting to win with more prizes, more players, etc. But I really want to see tf2 actually grow.
If esea dies, the amount of top players that will quit, or stop trying, I'd assume is at 50%. Stream numbers in tf2 for matches have gone down by a lot over the past year, and if all the top players quit, even though there are new players on the rise that people in comp tf2 now, spectators won't know them very well and nobody will care to watch the streams. At that point, no one new is really joining competitive tf2, while people continue to quit.
This isn't just about the good of invite players though, as I know an outspoken open player will tell me I'm only looking out for myself. I'm looking out for tf2 in general. No one here wants this game to die, I've wanted it to grow since I started playing competitive, and after last lan I started to really like playing again. (I know if I didn't have the opportunity to make lan and chill with my team again, I would no longer care.)
2nd lastly, this season of invite I think will be one of the best seasons of invite there will be to date. There are arguably 3, maybe 4 teams that could win 1st, and 5 teams vying for 4th. Pretty much every match this season is going to be really influential to the final standings of the league, and I really think if there was anytime to bring new people into tf2, rather than worrying about everything else going on with leagues, it would be much more beneficial to be trying to hype up this season with a ton of content, streaming, doing whatever to get people interested because this season is going to be awesome. I really think that if this season is hyped up enough, the quality is the best its been, and we drag in a ton of viewers for a really good season of tf2, then the game could start booming again like it seemed to start doing about a year ago till it died down.
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.
RikachuEggplantOh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.
squidEggplantOh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?
god damn ur fucking retarded lmao
>muh lan
[quote=Rikachu][quote=Eggplant]Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?[/quote]
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.[/quote]
[quote=squid][quote=Eggplant]Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?[/quote]
god damn ur fucking retarded lmao[/quote]
>muh lan
Thanks for letting us know you're the least intelligent person here.[/quote]
[quote=squid][quote=Eggplant]Oh no, whatever will the inviters do without legions of open players bankrolling their LAN?[/quote]
god damn ur fucking retarded lmao[/quote]
>muh lan
I would post but it seems like everything I want to say has already been said.
Play ESEA.
I would post but it seems like everything I want to say has already been said.
Play ESEA.
Play ESEA.
strongsuit
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.
While you may feel as though you personally lose nothing over an esea fallout, I think the community as a whole could be negatively impacted.
[quote=strongsuit]
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.[/quote]
While you may feel as though you personally lose nothing over an esea fallout, I think the community as a whole could be negatively impacted.
You're right about this. My biggest worry is actually that CEVO will fold after this season - I don't want to waste another season with my team - I want what we do this season to count.
However, I'm placing my bet. By the time I'm eligible to win any sort of trophy, this whole league dispute will have settled. If CEVO "wins", I win my bet. At that point, winning CEVO won't be winning a minor league trophy, it will be winning the major league trophy.
In the meantime, gambling on CEVO costs us what... at most another season in open, if we have to switch back to ESEA after we've surpassed the typical open skill window.[/quote]
While you may feel as though you personally lose nothing over an esea fallout, I think the community as a whole could be negatively impacted.
downpourto expect people to play both leagues is silly, people don't have that kind of time, I know for sure that I don't.
kids have no "time" to play in 2 leagues yet they wont hesitate to drop 20+ hrs a week in mge #boomroasted
[quote=downpour]to expect people to play both leagues is silly, people don't have that kind of time, I know for sure that I don't.[/quote]
kids have no "time" to play in 2 leagues yet they wont hesitate to drop 20+ hrs a week in mge #boomroasted
kids have no "time" to play in 2 leagues yet they wont hesitate to drop 20+ hrs a week in mge #boomroasted
Ma3laaSetsulHow do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.
This is what new players don't understand. We ALL started in open. We've all been there and worked our way up that's how you do it in competitive leagues. We've ALL paid to play each season. That's why our competitive scene is strong. Why risk killing it, or downgrading it for no apparent reason? You want to save $2?
[quote=Ma3laa][quote=Setsul]How do you expect the competition in CEVO to get better if you refuse to play CEVO because "the competition isn't as good as in ESEA"?[/quote]
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.[/quote]
This is what new players don't understand. We ALL started in open. We've all been there and worked our way up that's how you do it in competitive leagues. We've ALL paid to play each season. That's why our competitive scene is strong. Why risk killing it, or downgrading it for no apparent reason? You want to save $2?
Lastly, I played in open once too. I've played in every division in esea now but main, and worked my way up to invite. I just wanted to say that to anyone who actually really has a passion for the game, whether it be pugging constantly to be the best, or never leaving dm or mge because you want to be the best, or scrimming 86 times a night to be the best, playing in ESEA and trying to work your way up to invite if you have the drive is the most rewarding thing you could do in competitive tf2 for yourself, and making lan with a team you like is something to try to work for.
Let's focus on trying to grow the game in no better time to do it than an amazing season of invite, because this might be one of the last chances the game has. If you have a competitive drive in this game, esea is the most rewarding thing to play in. So yeah, sign up for esea if you can please, I'd love to see the game have a boom of growth again.[/quote]
This is what new players don't understand. We ALL started in open. We've all been there and worked our way up that's how you do it in competitive leagues. We've ALL paid to play each season. That's why our competitive scene is strong. Why risk killing it, or downgrading it for no apparent reason? You want to save $2?
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