What's something I can do that is effortless? Would putting "| PlayComp.tf" in my alias help?

I am prolly not the best person to say this out loud, but easily, if there was less hostility between TF2 communities, that'd be an amazing start. there's a lot of elitism against half-comp places like /r/truetf2, and while I guess one could simply say "well THEY'RE BAD AND DUMB", that's about 12k potential new people to interact with that you're alienating.

also, less hostility towards specific HL classes in general. as horribly designed as someone like pyro is, you do kind of need one of them, and there's a clear group of skilled pyro players, that could switch whenever they wanted. good players can simply use "lazy" classes, after all. or did we all forget Ma3la used to main HL heavy?

It certainly wouldn't hurt. You can also talk to people in pubs who seem like they might fall into the category of gamers who are growing bored of consistently top scoring in pubs. Suggest that they check out some of the various league sites. If you have the time, add them, point them towards specific places to look for teams and help them put together their first lft thread (this can be a really daunting process of people unfamiliar with it).

If you're really motivated, get in touch with the leaders of pub communities and see if there are ways that they can help spread the knowledge of tf2 to their player base.

But I think the biggest thing that anyone can do, and the one thing that everyone should be doing already, is when you play with people who don't know about competitive tf2, or who are still obviously very new to the format. Go out of your way to be nice, helpful, and encouraging. Sure you are going to run into the sh*theads who think that they know everything and won't take anyone's advice. But far too often you'll see legitimately eager young gamers getting vote kicked from their very first lobby because people are more interested in winning a lobby than helping a new player learn the competitive format.

We all need to act a little less arrogant around the new players who happen into competitive tf2 and realize that all of our stats, reputation, and win records aren't going to mean a thing if there isn't a steady influx of new players entering the scene.

So next time you play a lobby with the 200 hour medic who only heals the heavy, instead of vote kicking instantly, teach, encourage, offer tips advice and a guiding hand.

I'm pretty sure pubs like lotusclan promoted their hl team before and even had some 6s tourney for free shit.

Also I don't know why everyone's just repeating the same thing over and over again. These threads are so boring.

lotusclan sponsored bpm (plat hl team) a while back and from talking with sharpshot, bpm's heavy, they did't do that much to promote them.

8:03 PM - corsa: did they promote you guys?
8:03 PM - corsa: like give you guys recognition a lot
8:06 PM - ★ Sharpshot: not much
8:06 PM - corsa: what did they do, if anything?
8:06 PM - ★ Sharpshot: mentioned us on the forums
8:07 PM - ★ Sharpshot: and they had chat messages once in a while
8:07 PM - ★ Sharpshot: on their servers

The very simple answer to getting a lot of attention to something, no matter what you are trying to promote... is very large prize pots. To secure a prize pot of the magnitude you would need for people to take it seriously would be very difficult and funding it through the typical tf2 donation way just doesn't cut it. Community backed projects will never be as successful as one funded by organization, because the community is generally non-profit which means it will just dwindle and die.

People seem to think valve should do something about it... But really the best way to do it... especially now (cevo had an opportunity to go big... but it's too late now) is through the promotion of ESEA to the regular public player. Maybe try get ESEA to do a season of highlander. Whatever happens, the more players putting money into ESEA the more likely the scene will stick around and grow.

Freshmeat leagues work. Provide a platform that is specifically designed to get new players into the game and interested. A bit of advertising isn't going to cut it. Props to the highlander open, that competition brought lots of new competitive players into the game.

IDK who runs it in the US... I guess UGC but idk what people feel about them. It's much easier to do such a thing in Australia or Europe because everyone plays in the ozfortress or ETF2L respectively.

A free league that isn't UGC which encompasses current ESEA and UGC 6s players. Competitive tf2 is dominated by young horny competitive boys, show them the road to go from DIV-6 to DIV-1 and some frag videos from DIV-1 players and hormones will do their things. Ok, I don't know if hormones will do it's things but I didn't need a CASH INCENTIVE to play this game and train daily.

As it is currently, the road from DIV-6 to DIV-1 goes through a toll (ESEA) that many don't want to pay. For these people, the road ends there. AFAIK, 'they' make up a larger portion of the 6s community than 'us'.

One side of me thinks that NA-TF2 could be better off dissolving both ESEA and UGC (err...rather competing against UGC 6s) then creating a unified league at the cost of a NA-LAN event. And the other side knows that NA-TF2 already had this discussion about sacrificing a LAN and a LAN event isn't going to be given up. Though I'm sided on the former.

The NA-TF2 LAN scene, this NOT a discussion I can hold as I barely have any knowledge of it. but...AFAIK, there are 2/3 LANs that TF2 people attend. Intel Extreme Masters (west), GXL (east), and ESEA* (central). All of which are spread across the country. I think having the unified league would in turn will increase exposure of LAN events to all 6s players with more relevancy than the current SPLIT 6s community.

We've already faced it; a ESEA<->UGC thing is NEVER going to happen. There's a LARGE pool of players that would be PROUD to say they play 6s TF2, yet 'they' are a community apart. This is concerning. TF.TV wants more players but new players NEVER start with 'us' in ESEA but ALL of them must go to UGC.

Honestly I don't know much of the 6s history. I only arrived here for seasons 14 and 15 and this is what I see as a spectator of this scene. I don't play this game, nor do I watch it regularly.

Free anything is just going to be another abject utter failure. The unwillingness to pay to play is exactly why this game has been perpetually supported by donations and why it is stagnant and on the verge of falling into nothing. If the community actually made efforts to introduce players to ESEA and promote ESEA the game will grow... You're kidding yourself with fantasyland ideas that a new free league or a new league of any type is going to pick up tf2 and get serious attention. No more fantasyland ideas, get people into ESEA.

We need a better (or improved UGC) free league. As it stands UGC is bad. The map rotations often don't align with ESEA which makes people only want to play one or the other, people sandbag lower levels to stomp on new kids, people play once a week to just get medals, etc. Not everyone wants to start and hop into ESEA when they know they are new to the game. Open, despite the name, can be daunting because there are tons of amazing players in there who either need to get back into IM or Invite, or should be in there but have to go through Open first. And even then, not-so-amazing players can still be far ahead of a brand new team. A brand new team will probably want to play where they might still lose, but they havea chance to elarn something. When you are constantly 5-0'd, contrary to popular belief, you learn very little because it all goes by so fast.

We need a league that aligns with ESEA so teams can practice throughout the week the maps everyone is playing, a league that is more strict on team placement, and a league that the community doesn't look down upon so people starting can have some pride in their achievements, even if they aren't as amazing as seasoned players might have.

Everyone needs to start somewhere and if we can lower the barrier of entry (not dumb down the game) we can get more new blood.

Oh, and web PUGs, or something similar. IRC is great if that's what you've always done, but in the current state of gaming most gamers who want to play a competitive game want it to be simple. TF2center has simplicity down but it is plagued with people griefing in 6s, and it needs a way to be able to pick a team through a captain or a randomzied system.

ESEA has a much higher barrier of entry. The idea that pay-to-play is necessary to have good competition is also silly, imo. Look at ETF2L. It's actually not that bad of a league from what I know. Surely it isn't perfect but it seems to be policed better than UGC, and Perm. still puts out good and competitive teams. If ETF2L can be successful then something in America has the potential to also be successfull.

No no no no... new leagues and especially free leagues are just going to fail and crash and burn. It's never worked, never will. So many leagues have tried to fill that gap and you might as well just send them to the incinerator for termination. It's seriously like smashing your face into a wall.

Re-focus yourselves tell yourself this over and over again until you finally get it stuck in your head:

" ESEA is the only way this game will see any kind of sustainable growth. We need new players to be interested in playing for ESEA "

The problem is that if we get a new free league right now we will have 3 leagues again, which is deifnitely a problem. UGC 6s needs to die or improve, and if UGC dies we need a good, free league to take its place. You can't actually expect people to pay for a game they are new to and aren't sure if they'd end up liking.

Free leagues can work if done properly. ETF2L works reasonably well for a free league, and works reasonably well even compared to ESEA. Surely some European will tell me how they're not that great, but from the outside looking in it looks decent. Not the best, that's for sure, but it looks decent. Also, I believe CEVO's free CS:GO league is

You have to give lower level people a reason to care. Sure, making thempay for a league will make them care but it might sour their taste for the game if their first experience is in Open where they might just feel like they paid for a season for nothing.

I know the audience here is fairly devoted to this game and its hard to see why people won't pay to play our game, but new players are most likely turned off by the lack of a reasonable free alternative to ESEA. The top level of players will definitely be drawn in by a prizepot, and that can trickle down into hype for top-level teams, and especially the viewing experience. However, even in the games that do have a successful esport the majority of players are probably playing free alternatives to league play. If Valve won't give us a way to play 6s for free then the community has the do it. Start with better pug systems that are easier to get into and restrict or punish griefiers and potentially do a bit to find players of simlar skill levels so they can play together. Then for the players looking to step it up to the next level we need to have a place where they will want to play. Many of these people would be willing to throw money at a league, but many won't be until they know they can compete even a little bit.

We need new players. Everyone at the top needs to understand you can't be succesful just because you are good at the game. You need to build an audience who cares and understands the game you are playing. Because 6s is so different from standard TF2 you have to have ways for people to play 6s that is just punishing enough so they can still have fun and want to get better.

You're not looking for 'new' players. ALL, EVERY, 100% of new player will go to UGC. The question I think y'all should be asking (since a new league is absurd*) is how we can make UGC -> ESEA worthwhile and cost effective.

I remember the discussions between ESEA and UGC admins, that did not go through. So as the 'ESEA' side of the North America 6s community what can we do?

Go to UGC players and tell them to pay up some money to play in Open where they're going to get wrecked by IM players in OPEN and invites 'offclassing', ahahhaa?

...maybe that's really not so bad...because we need more players for more divisions within ESEA.

Perhaps tell them that we need you to trust in ESEA because we have a rocky start to begin with and things will get better as more player fill the league? But it's a league that's not under our control, we can't really speak for ESEA's experience because it's ultimately theirs. What happened to IM and teams being cut from playoffs(?) because of FFWs?

So...what would you tell the UGC players?

JP that's exactly what I'm saying, you'll notice how I don't mention ugc much because it is a problem... The day new players stop going to UGC & just directly go to ESEA is the day TF2 get's really fucking big. It may take time to get there... but that's how it will happen if it does happen. The half-assed, half-committed players need to just step up and play in ESEA.

This is all well and good in theory, but you can't expect everyone to commit. People have school and jobs they have to attend to. You can't expect them to invest money and lots of time to remain competitive. I think that realsitically we need a good free alternative where people can play without having to invest as much as you do to play ESEA. The problem is at the moment our free alternative sucks and everyone looks down on it.

Sure they can. Anyone who can play an entire Highlander match, or even just play a scrim of it in a day has enough time to commit to a real league. It might take some time & peer pressure to convince them but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Any free league whether it is called UGC or not will always be considered a band of shitlord players, and they deserve every bit of contempt they get for thinking that is real competitive TF2. They need to get into ESEA, get their asses handed to them... Get better then shit on other new players the when the next season comes around... Just make sure to let the players you just took a dump on know that they'll get better the more they play in ESEA.

This tough love approach doesn't grow a game. Competition doesn't actually need money behind it. It helps motivate people (especially the best people), but it isn't necessary.

I keep bringing up ETF2L because it works probably as well as ESEA despite being a free league. Even the top level is probably about as competitive as Invite, and they have even less incentive to play well. They have a LAN at least, but only once a year. At i49 2 teams from a free league beat our NA superteam.

This, as far as I am concerned, is that free leagues can work if people go into them with the right mentality. I think ESEA should continue and grow, and I think pay-to-play is good for the scene, but making it the only option greatly inhibits growth. We need growth. We need new players. To do that you need to give them a place they actually want to play.

*

I'm kind of on your side here (though I dont think an NA free league is as viable as you do) but the team we sent to i49 was most definitely not a superteam.

Just btw the pay2play thing for comp tf2 is pretty much solely NA's thing. I don't think any other league charges anything at all...

ESEA failed in Europe while ETF2L will start it's 20th season so saying that free league can't be good is just wrong. Of course we don't have fancy LANs or huge prizepool, but it's as good as it can be without a big budget.

just let it die

You guys should seriously consider reaching out to UGC (or alternatively EVL) to get the changes you want instead of dismissing them. They have every interest in promoting comp tf2.

Everyone who thinks that getting rid of the free leagues to make TF2 big is an idiot. I'm sorry, but you are. The reason that DotA2 and CS:GO are so popular without the need for free leagues is because the average 'pub' game is exactly the same format as a competitive game. They have their 'free' league provided by the game devs and that is why all of their leagues can be pay to play (because people can get exposure to the format in a free way directly in the standard game.

We don't have that. And honestly, until we do, you are never going to convince enough people that paying to play in a league where they are ONLY going to lose money for the foreseeable future is a good thing. This game would die in the space of a few seasons if you tried to do something like that. When I started playing comp I would never have paid up in a league, not because I didn't care about the game, but because I had no clue how to play competitively. I knew that I wasn't going to be good enough to play in ESEA and more than that I didn't want to have to pay to learn how to play the competitive format. After a few seasons in UGC, however, I am paying up in ESEA and will continue to as I improve and grow as a player.

The simple fact is that a free league is the ONLY way we are going to draw new players into this format. It lowers the barrier to entry for people who are considering getting into the competitive scene enough that they are more likely to give it a try because why not. And once they give it a try and like it joining a pay to play league seems far less daunting. Without dev support and a free way in game to play the competitive format we will always need free leagues, and honestly, if you think trying to make a new one rather than improving the existing one (that serves a growing player base already) than you are a bigger idiot than the people calling to remove it entirely.

For anyone complaining about UGC 6s: According to this forum thread there IS a 6s admin position available. So if you think you know how/want to change UGC for better, here's your chance.

If anyone wants to expand on the ideas/problems discussed in this thread can add their input.

EDIT: Also, thanks to the 56 people so far who have started to sport the playcomp.tf tag!

I kinda like this game no thanks

Confirmed

I think those agitating for a new free league have a good idea in their hearts, but it would absolutely be much more likely that we could successfully grow NA 6v6 TF2 by working to improve/develop UGC than by attempting to take a flyer on creating an alternative that's more likely to fail than succeed.

I have gone to 3 communities so far, PPM, [pG] and skial. PPM, mostly trading one of the admins has shown interest and will talk to the founder/head admin. [pG] I still need to talk to the admins, and skial I really don't know. It's not hard guys, go on community forums and say the great about competitive tf2, bring up our problem, and show them that we care about this game

I strongly doubt the current UGC staff cares about 6s.

At the beginning of November, my friend Nursey, made a thread calling out the imbalance of teams in the entire UGC 6V6 Division.
TLDR its a massive thread with complaints and suggestions for the 6v6 UGC. Not a single admin responded to any of these complaints or even posted. Within the thread a poster mentioned applying for admin to encourage someone to step up. So me being a yolo type of guy decided to apply...

I applied a little over a month ago in the midst of that big thread by nursey pointing out imbalance in UGC 6v6. I gave them my own extended professional, personal, and gaming credentials that I believe should have made me a very strong candidate for this volunteer position... No response, not even a letter of rejection. TBH, I wouldn't hire me with some of the personality I inhibit while playing TF2 but you'd think Mr. Steve Chen from steve@stevechen.it would've at least received a letter of rejection. But yeah, perhaps they just don't check it.