You have the diction and vocabulary of a middle schooler, please do not try to criticize or "rib" anyone else.

you got a lot wrong bud <3

edit: stalin, it was a light hearted jab, not a rib or whatever. its all good

you argue that the economy in cs makes the game impure? what? its another element of the game to strategize and compete in, it adds another dimension. it in no way detracts from kennys' awping that he cant do it every round, if anything it elevates it

you say "soccer is like this. soccer is good. therefore esports should be like this." which is a terrible argument. guess what every ultra popular sport has that tf2 lacks? a ball. more than a ball, it represents a fundamental asymmetry to the game, one side is trying to do something and the other side is looking to gum it up. the team with the ball wants to get it through the net, or past the keeper, and the other side wants to swat it into the nosebleeds.

when michael jordan is facing up against gary payton they both have completely different objectives, theyre playing different roles. when two scouts are chipping away at each other on the flank they both have the same goal: try to get an advantage. theres a disincentive to creating a fight, because the potential of being picked makes it too risky. this causes tf2 to stalemate -- a lot if two teams are evenly matched.

you also complain that an lol match can be won in the pick/ban stage, which is a misrepresentation of what those casters are saying. they SAY they won in the pick/ban, but what they MEAN is that one team was able to play to their champions strengths and minimize their weaknesses better. a lot of times one side will be more geared to early picks, or midgame etc. and so they'll attempt to leverage that advantage into early picks, there is pressure on them to create conflict, to realize their advantage, and if they fail to then the announcers will say aptly that it was a mistake to pick gankers, and the game mightve been lost in the pick/ban.

im not saying that tf2 needs to be asymmetric either, there are many sports which are symmetric, they just aren't terribly popular outside of lone hyped events based more on storyline than the sport itself (thrilla in manila, phelps in the olympics, lance armstrong etc). theyre still a lot of fun to play and improve at, its just the more straightforward, the more "pure" the competition is the less exciting, less diverse, and thus less popular it is.

1v1 ammomod is the most "pure" form of tf2. But probably the least fun by about a mile. And I don't think those are necessarily unrelated.

I never argued that competitive tf2 needs to be made purer; I argued it is unlikely to benefit from being diluted.

Its pure but its just a small subset of tf2. Its less fun when all you are doing is remembering spawns and jump patterns.

1 v 1 mid in dota 2.

1 v 1 basketball. (Pretty fun though but of course missing a lot)

Ya thats the point. The more "pure" you make a game, the less strategy and tactics are present. I mean, look at what op criticized about cs:go and LoL: some of the biggest sources of strategy for each of those games.

The most pure competition would be a game where you strip away any randomness or variation in starting conditions, which would lead to a game where all the strategy is memorized and nothing new can be experienced.

"Pureness" is not a compliment, its not what you should strive for in a game.

http://youtu.be/e31OSVZF77w

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess960

chess960 is dope

chessboXing is more dope

I actually think Extra Credits - Pro Gaming - What Esports Needs to Grow is super relevant for this discussion.

Extra Credits: Balancing for Skill is also another great video to watch as background material when discussing weapon balancing.

While I sort of understand the purity argument, I just want to remind everyone about shootmania, which is probably one of the purest fps games around, and which everyone lost interest in after ten minutes.

i just want to wear horace

I think it might be useful to change the game in one way: drop a player per team and make it 5v5 like a lot of other e-sports. A:R is a 5v5 mode, but it's the wrong way to do it. We should do what Bloodsire said: take 6s and cut out a scout and a soldier, and add an auxiliary player that just plays whatever class is needed at the time. It wouldn't require much adjustment from our current ruleset and would make TF2 more viable as an e-sport, both in the number of teams in leagues and for getting whole teams to LANs.

6s works just fine though. We should at least attempt this version of 5s though.

daily reminder

The thread was stupid and bumping it was stupid.