I've never understood how a sponsor can work in a smaller market (TF2 when compared to LoL or SC2.)

If anyone has a notion on how a profit can be turned by sponsoring TF2 teams, I would like to hear it. (Talking about sponsors like eMg LG etc, not for advertisement purposes like PAPA JOHNS THEY SHOULD SPONSOR A TEAM.)

I quit TF2 a few months ago... Picked up CS:GO... Any how.

I walked up to my; who I been working for about a month now, asked him "Sir, would you like to sponsor a team? An e-Sports team?" He asked the general questions on something "new" to him. Told him how the company name/ team gets promoted (Steaming, tournaments, podcast, shout casting, fan base... ETC) He asked for how much to sponsor for this would cost. Replied with a simple "Not to much actually, servers are $13 dollars, a voIP is 2 dollars. So 15 all together." I also asked if he could pay league fees for ESEA (Season started already so we won't be this season but next one!) Took 2 weeks to get an answer from my boss, but he is 100% up for a full season of ESEA.

How will he get money from it?
We build websites so you see turn group technology and be like who the fuck are they? You google search and find out. Someone ask if you know anyone who can build a website, you say I saw this company for a cs;go team. Company just made a few bucks. Whole season of ESEA + server/ mumble is only I think 250 over 4months. We build 1 website that will pay for 8 months. We made profit.

Yes, I understand how that works, but you're providing a service (LIKE PAPA JOHNS SPONSOR A TEAM PLEASE PAPA JOHNS,) sponsors such as LG, eMg etc dont provide services. They're simply gaming organizations, who I think get paid infinitesimal amount by Razer or someshit to tell people that their players use Deathadders, or BETTER YET 120Hz MONITORS AHSGHASGHGAHS.

What's the plan for "gaming organizations?"

Organizations have a website, websites "could" have merchandise, will have ads, donations, coaching lessons. Honestly they just have to be thoughtful of what could sell.... The player base/ fan base is anywhere from 15-30, kids in high school have the highest amount of money to pay for things. I work 15 hours a week live at friends (No rent no bills graduated) I can buy anything and everything right now. Others can to. Hell people spend up to 75 dollars an hour fro Starcraft 2 lessons, why not spend X dollars to learn from B4nny on how to demo-man?

Hell have the team go to the LANs and set up a booth to sell merchandise like a garage band would. Sell mouse pads signed by everyone, sell shirts, key chains. Yea you got to pay to make them, but that is part of making some money.

TL:DR be creative, sell product.

Before I sound even more of an idiot with no real brain... I never been to a LAN I been to convention centers for some table top RTS games and TCGs but not a LAN so I think they are the same....

Ad revenue is a couple of nickels a day, nobody visits those sites. When was the last time you went to www.papajohnsgamingmouses.com?

Income from tutoring is a non-factor because of the free mentor system. It's fine learning from the best, but an open player can give you the barebones basics for free. No point in paying a ton for lessons you may not be able to really grasp.

Not a bad idea, but the players kind of have to be internet famous for anyone to give 2shits about some guys selling signed mousepads.

Which brings me to OP...

Creating characters is weird. I'm all for the idea of players being able to showcase their personalities, but it should be done in a way where it naturally highlights their personality. The example that comes to mind is ofc Idra. I don't know a ton about SC, but the guy does dickish stuff, not entirely because he's creating a character, it's because hes actually a dick. (although it is good attention for himself.)

this is the most serious i have ever been in my life i am so into this topic right now you guys

And your analysis is generally good. I think "create" is too strong a word. Showcase is too weak. I'll be meeting with some dudes later tonight to basically discuss how we can implement "brand management strategy" for players to help them think about how to develop their public personas.

Sal is Vince McMahon.

tf2 isn't really a big enough game for mgo's to see roi, which sucks but it's true. I mean look at esea finals streams, we get like 3000 viewers for a weekend once every couple months. That is ridiculously smalltime compared to dota, lol, fighting games, etc. Combine the relatively small brand exposure with the costs of paying for 6 people's shit and there's really not much to go off of there.

This isn't really a problem specific to tf2 though, it's like I've said before, fps as a genre is really just in a dead spot right now. Nobody plays them (unless we're talking about halo in which case the sponsors are prestigious brands such as doritos)

so this entire podcast is about making up drama to get viewers right

why would you ever want to do that

The biggest problem with TF2 as an e-sport is that Valve is in control. We can make all of the third party websites and some plugins we want, but as far as I know, there will never be a better way to spectate the game, add live stats as they happen, rewind live games, etc.

They also have a ton of power to enhance the player base and make the game more attractive for sponsors. These threads always come down to the same thing: there's no reason for people who are outside of TF2 to come to TF2 unless they love playing it.

so i was browsing the article section and i came upon a three-part article, iunno if this is common knowledge or has already been disproven or whatever

http://teamfortress.tv/articles/view/35-sick-of-getting-tread-on-then-stop-propping-up-the-status-quo
http://teamfortress.tv/articles/view/36-sick-of-getting-tread-on-part-ii-killing-the-wsop-model
http://teamfortress.tv/articles/view/37-sick-of-getting-tread-on-part-iii-the-way-forward

Also, maybe something like the old MGE videos? Mumble comms are now all over on twitch.tv, but I thought some of the best ones were the demo reviews, which really broke down the process of how amazing players thought about the game and it was really insightful and stuff to watch. With a minute at the beginning, middle, and end advertising the sponsors and all?

2) Independently develop a much more viewer-friendly spectator mod.

Make the funnest game watchable and lots of problems go away as soon as viewer numbers can be sold to advertisers. The thing you could do tomorrow is ditch traditional casting and switch between players' POVs with mumble comms. Just have to arrange it with all teams and pay for a small amount of hardware. Could literally do that tomorrow, while you ask Lange to put together a team to write a new spectator client.

I like this idea. I've tossed around the idea of starting a new website and trying to get some of the big players on board to review demos, go over strats, and that kind of thing, kinda like MGE used to do. However it would be free and maybe would pick up sponsors.

As a viewer, one of the things that I'm noticing is that players should use consistent names in actual matches. If the casters aren't sure exactly who the players are that they're casting, the viewers almost certainly won't.

What about possibly selling some ingame logos? I know with eXtv we use custom logos for casting, why can't a couple of those spots be sold for a couple of bucks?

What about doing something more late night TV style? Do a semi-scripted opening before introducing the night's guests, and presenting in a way that lets them talk about what they want to talk about? As it is, it seems like a lot of guests are there more for side comments. I think spotlighting one guest at a time might be better.

I think the issue is the current cost vs ROI. It costs way too much to send a bunch of guys to lan and end up with the same amount of marketing reach as if it was online. If there was no flight/hotel costs I bet many more invite or IM teams would have good sponsors. Then any payback could go directly to the players. Free mice, keyboards, monitors, pizza. Sponsors could sponsor individual players too.

Sponsors can also focus on getting players equipment to stream video of themselves while they play and it'll just be that much easier to promote and help the flow of casting and interviews, in real time, during game breaks.

I know the LAN is nice and all, but it takes money out of the pockets of the investors and the players. People will watch the finals no matter where they are held. There just isn't enough player base to market too for the smaller games to warrant paying for LAN overhead.

http://keekerdc.com/2012/06/the-sponsorship-fallacy/

If MLG picked up TF2 6v6 like the vote numbers said they should on that one poll, this would no longer be true...

Invite TF2 is LOADED with a soap opera stuff. The hush-hush nature of it is what's holding that element back. Other places may keep it just as quiet. Melodrama also isn't hard to make.

more exposure to people who don't play TF2 wouldn't magically create thousands of eager 6s players

Ahh you watched/listened to it :D .. glad you did :)

So my thoughts are two fold, one is the personality thing you discussed, this is important.. LG were a super popular team, in part because of B4nny and the amusing B4nny jesus stuff that built up around him in casts and online. Now there is the new angle, B4nny vs. Tyrone.. everyone wants to see Don't Trip vs. Don't Stand (change your name all you want, this is your name). It is now a big deal.

Casters have personality, Sal is the nice friendly guy, eXtine is the massively over enthusiastic guy, Duder is all drunk and stuff, djc is the grumpy curmudgeon, cBear used to be in theater and it shows... this is all good. We need to bring this out at a player level too... VanillaTV do this very well with the match profiles and mini interviews... if you look at BFF there is a lot of personality there, Kaidus is all sarcastic, Darn is drunk (regardless of weather he is or not), Zebossai's demos need to be watched ... more of this type of thing please... I think Crackclan did an amazing bit of work with their Season Hub thing, also whilst it was probably pretty boring for him Retshock's ongoing Fifa thing added some amusement :D

The second major thought is casting, I was thinking last night of a couple of things to do with the new ESEA thing, the fact that we have regular games and stuff... I don't know how it works for ya'll Americans but we have a couple of punditry type programs about football (soccer) that are on the same time every week, you have a program that is effectively covering all of the games that happened that day (Match of the Day) by showing highlights, doing interviews and covering a couple of games in depth.. and then you have a Sunday morning Soccer show (Soccer AM) that is much more amusing, it picks up some of the best goals or worst mistakes, has some interviews with funny people, some live challenges, and is generally VERY light hearted. I watched the second show occasionally even when I had absolutely no interest in football,.. it dragged me in and now I watch the first one as well.

Talking of which,.. and this is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb, Fantasy Football. There is NOTHING that'll make people watch more cast TF2 than a Fantasy football/Fantasy 6's type game. Just sayin'.

You're walking a fine line, here, between sports and entertainment. I imagine this is a discussion Vince McMahon had with his dad when he wanted to take WWF national and put it on TV with Wrestlemania... you're always going to sacrifice some integrity in the name of entertainment. Far too often we get the 'media' sensationalizing sports and storylines for their own good, and I think it has an overall negative impact on the sport as well as the integrity of the broadcasters. For example... "The New Orleans Saints need to win this Super Bowl to revive the area after Hurricane Katrina." No. Absolutely not. Or even this weekend "The Kansas City Chiefs are playing for the memory of their fallen commrade." No, they're not - he was a coward and murdered his wife, the mother of his child, in cold blood. These events and their outcomes do NOT hold a causal relationship to each other, but for some reason broadcasters seem to think people are retarded and will be more interested in watching. Don't do that. It's great to have drama but do not fucking invent it - let it happen organically. If TF2 has proven anything, it's that we're split alpha/beta's and we're ALWAYS going to fuck w/ each other, but we're never going to take it too far (at least for the most part). It's great to highlight that stuff, but it shouldn't be focus of our broadcasts. Let's face it... the Saints didn't bring anyone back to life, there's still a shit ton of violence and poverty in Detroit - no matter how many games the Tigers win and that dude still murdered his wife, even though the Chiefs won - never assume the ignorance of your viewers, respect their intelligence, and you'll be fine.

I think it's important to note here that the "community" element of TF2 happens in Mumble channels and random forums on the web. Shoutcasting and podcasts are all great, but the real way to communicate with the heart of the community is through these gossipy back-channels.

That said, the first thing that needs to be done in developing the competitive following is developing a more user-friendly way to spectate. Live matches are much more exciting when you've got the STV (I'm not a fan of casting, but I know people have different preferences here). But STV is pretty consistently unreliable - as are the match casters and even the players themselves. Just look at the most recent LAN for evidence.

Your point about the "soap opera" element of entertainment is really insightful, actually. A couple days ago, I was thinking there are some pretty strong undercurrents of drama here in the upcoming season. First of all, most of the invite teams have potential to play on pretty much the same level, so competition will be intense leading up to LAN. This is an opportunity in and of itself to draw a larger following before the really big matches. In addition, the gossipy channels are suggesting some moderate tension between players. B4nny and Tyrone split up to form their own teams, so they could be advertised as rivals, plus Pyyyour is going demo this season (in my opinion specifically to beat B4nny). These little competitions, friendly or not so friendly, could be drawn out into the open to create an over-arching narrative - your so-called soap opera.

I assumed Pyyyour went demo with a team of friends specifically to avoid the highest stakes competition. The soap opera should be telling us this stuff.