He wasn't necessarily talking about games with the exact same content repeatedly, I think he meant that if you take a bunch of different content and combine it then it can be really fun without any of that content necessarily being original.

overwatch adds concussion jumping from TFC before TF2? good game...can't wait to try this out.

fuck overwatch

sure showed them

ive become thoroughly convinced this is a first person mod of dota 2 with a revamped art style

I'm very much on board with Overwatch. I've been doing a lot of research into various aspects of the game in hope that Overwatch doesn't do what TF2 did on release (have everyone arguing about team size and having the competitive scene add a million rules which alienate the public scene from the competitive one). I'm pleased to say that doesn't seem the case.

Ideally I'd like to see the game played a lot like a first person moba. TF2 community would hate it, but I'd love to see the game played in teams of 5 vs 5 from the get go. This would put Overwatch in line with every other team-based eSports title that's currently having any success. 6 vs 6 may have a slightly better gameplay experience but I think it's kind of essential. A lot of big tournament events don't like putting an extra computer up on the stage, or have intricate camera setups which only cater for 1vs1 or 5vs5 games. The game is currently being played 6 vs 6 which I think is a mistake, but either way, the only thing I care about is that on release, people all play the game thing!

They are intending on constantly adding new heroes to this game and depending on the number that are available on release day, I'd love to see a hero limit (match-making enforced) of one in a 5v5 game (or one in each team to allow mirror matchups if there aren't enough on release). Pick ban phase like in mobas meaning people will not main a specific hero, but be able to fill a general area of the team (pick players, tanks, healers etc...). There are certain combinations of heroes that work really well together and it would be interesting to see the different strategies that can be developed using certain sets of heroes and then seeing their counters.

Overwatch could really be the door we've been waiting to open for a game to hit the eSports scene and retain some of the most appealing aspects that exist only in TF2 gameplay. I think people are going to flock to this game and with Blizzard's record of building decent matchmaking competitive platforms, it may be stupid to cling onto TF2's inevitable sink into the void, even if Overwatch doesn't play half as good as a TF2 match.

I played TFC for 8 years. I didn't like the idea of TF2. I saw a load of videos and hated that they took all the speed out of the game. Sadly I had to move to TF2 as TFC was dying and I still wanted to play a game that had some of the TFC characteristics. I feel like Overwatch is pretty much the same thing happening again. Imagine going from this to TF2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyGGs9s2jA

I disagree with this because of exactly what you said in the rest of your post. Overwatch is more moba-like than FPS-like and I don't think that there will be enough in common for the TF2 community to migrate many players completely.

that video you linked has one major thing in common that links all the games i love the most: the quake(or quake-like) engine/physics. I think Overwatch will be good but honestly, if this game wasn't heavily inspired by the TF2 aesthetic I don't think this would even be a discussion

It is a lot more moba-like, but actually... TF2 is a lot more moba like than TFC. Is it a bad thing?

I think TF2 is the superior game from what I've seen, but I've got this feeling that the timing and style of Overwatch is just perfect for TF2 style teams to really burst onto the eSports scene (somewhere TF2 never has and never will go). Let's face it, if you've played TF2 for the last 7 years, you're going to have a massive advantage in a game like this compared to a CS:GO team that migrates across. If the title is successful as an eSport, it's going to be TF2 teams who can lead the way.

Having moba attributes in a shooter isn't bad.

However, having an ultimate ability that aims for you is p bad in a shooter tho don't you think

Edit: Along with having multiple engy like classes which always leads to exciting, fast paced gameplay

i don't know why people are painting this game as a replacement for tf2 lol. besides the aesthetic and the fact that it has guns it really doesn't have anything in common.

i certainly won't be moving to overwatch because blizzard will be using professional casters and producers for their streams (which leaves no place for someone like me), and also i really love tf2 and i don't think any other game will replace that, but i will certainly try the game even though i'm not hyped for it whatsoever. but i'll try to play it objectively without comparing it directly to tf2. i personally don't think i'll like it but who knows.

Just speaking from my perspective but I think I would have an easier time transferring over to a game like CS:GO, rather than Overwatch. The aim and mechanics aren't as different as some people think. The main difference being people have been playing csgo for 10 years, so you have a lot of catching up to do if you are new rather than starting "even" in a game like Overwatch.

IDK i don't really care if its like tf2, or if it replaces tf2 or anything like that. I'm just looking forward to playing a new FPS game, and also to playing a game where I might have some transferable skills as far as aiming and game sense go.

Its not tf2, but its gonna be good.

Yeah but TF2 is not a moba (even if it is more moba like than TFC) and Overwatch literally looks like a first person moba because it uses 3 abilities and an ult rather than weapons.

TF2 is similar...rocket/sticky jumping is just based on health instead of a timer, but in essence you can only do it so often because of health. stuff like bonk, jarate, cloak, etc., have timers to their "abilities" also.

This game is extremely similar to tf2, I really don't understand why so many people think this game is going to be LoL: The FPS. The big similarities between overwatch and moba games are the ultimate abilities (which aren't purely based on cooldowns) and the active abilities (like shields, damage buffs, etc.). Infact, the ultimates in overwatch are very similar to things like an ubercharge or a buff banner. The rest of the game is pure DM and usage of mobility options.

It's already announced that the game will be played 6v6, with control point/payload maps, with no class limits (atleast in the beginning). And the fact that there will be a mixture of hitscan and projectile weapons, the players who will be best suited to adapt to this game will definitely be TF2 players. We're already used to playing around ubercharge timings, offclassing, and the pace of CP/Payload maps. The way I see it, this game is basically TF2, except it has a lot more classes and each one of those classes has a game changing ability like an ubercharge.

I'm so hyped kreygasm

People who think Overwatch is a moba are retarded

No matter the finer points, if it's a fun game, with a buzzing interest, and has competitive support (major tounaments), it will be successful. As far as I can see it will be all these things; but that doesn't mean it has to be the death of TF2 as well.

you think the TF2 dev team would be under a lot of pressure to get matchmaking shipped because overwatch's open/closed/whatever beta should be releasing in the next couple months.

they r too busy releasing gamemodes no one cares about

why does pudge 2.0s scattergun thing have random spread

Yeah I remember leading up to the release of TF2 most people were hyped for fortress forever instead. My team that became the experiment/Pandemic actually played FF first. We ended up drawn to TF2 because of how much hype was surrounding it, even though it looked like dog shit in our eyes because we were used to games like quake or tfc. I think a big scene is more important for a lot of competitive players, as long as the game is still interesting of course. Competition just feels more fulfilling in a bigger game.

I think it will be a little different though. With matchmaking/valve support on the way, I think a lot more people will stay in TF2. Although If overwatch gets big, I can see a lot of invite/im tf2 players switching. It's just too appealing as a competitor to see a big game you know you could be good at, even if you prefer a different game. Which is what happened to a lot of us fortress forever players.

I did exactly the same. Tried to focus on FF but the community never grew. If FF was released 2 years earlier it may have been in business. This video still gives me goosebumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0-6wdDyGLI

Matchmaking can definitely keep TF2 alive but I do feel like it will be just hanging on, not really grow substantially enough. Sorry that no one wants to hear that. Matchmaking will do a great job at keeping existing competitive players active, and getting public players into competitive. The problem is, how much of the public scene are going to jump onto Overwatch when it comes out? The game looks very much up their street.

I guess the community has to decide if they would rather stick with TF2, the game we all love and enjoy playing and keep running our community events (which is perfectly fine, just let's not be delusional), or move to something new that has massive eSports potential. Honestly, not everybody wants to be part of a large eSports scene. Part of TF2's charm is that it is very much community driven and not dictated by money and organisations with different self-interests. Game titles that are 7 years old simply do not become professional eSport titles. Sequals of those games can and games that players can bring skills from other games to also have a good chance.

Providing Overwatch has a competitive / matchmaking mode built in, you're automatically getting featured at events like Blizcon alongside the likes of Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm and World of Warcraft Arena. Those events are already bigger than anything we have for TF2 and ever will have. When the top level TF2 teams will have a huge competitive advantage over say, transferring CS:GO teams due to gameplay similarities, there's a good chance these players could be winning some seriously large tournaments if they swapped over on beta / launch. If even one invite / prem TF2 team moves over and starts winning some decent money, it won't be long before teams who could compete with that team also want a shot. More teams move away, the top end of the scene is gone, people move in to take up their place but it isn't the same etc... I don't need to continue as I'm sure you know where I'm going with this.

Having said all of that, Overwatch could be complete trash as a competitive game. It could have a clear public game focus with the competitive side of the game being absolutely horrible. May find that it just becomes the sort of game you go over to play with your mates for 10 minutes then head back to your TF2 scrims for the rest of the evening. This is Blizzard we are talking about though. When was the last time they released a game that didn't have almost immediate success? Maybe HotS isn't quite up to where they thought it would be, but it is still pretty big and it is competing against two of the most popular games currently in existence.

I dunno. I'm getting on board with the hype. If it turns out to be trash, TF2 will still be there to fall back to. It makes sense to get on board early and maybe even be able to influence the developers during beta to shape the game into something this community enjoys, at least a little bit.

It's because they're marketing it really hard at TF2 players, and to get to the top people will probably have to commit to one over the other given that in reality the games will be pretty different.

Aesthetically it looks like the usual Blizzard clusterfuck of influences with no strong unifying theme (possibly putting them into the territory of straight rip offs but that's another conversation). Not many gamers care about that kind of thing but Valve unquestionably do aesthetics better.

The main point of departure is that TF2 is an inherently very high individual skill environment and most of the advanced movement (and probably attack) options in Overwatch look to be push button.

IIRC Robin said that one of the points of supporting streaming in client was to make players want to emulate and learn from highly skilled players, so they'll be playing to the strengths of the game engine vs Overwatch in some respects, assuming it materialises.

I'm with Arx on the whole 5v5 vs 6v6 thing

Yeah, and that's the problem that I see the most here. You can only dump time into becoming competitive in one game. If you can see yourself at the top of an esport, then you want to start with the game as soon as you can. When a game launches, there's a ton of hype surrounding it, a ton of media attention, and a ton of $$$money$$$. The only way I can see tf2 competing against overwatch at this point (the question of whether it's competing or not was answered pretty well by GentlemanJon) is if, at the start of tf2 matchmaking, Valve decides to go in on a huge marketing campaign. If there's no marketing, there's no sponsor attention.

If a game community doesn't grow exponentially, it's not a good investment for anyone involved in the esport. TF2 has been growing linearly, meaning it's still a great game, but hasn't had the dev feedback. My advice to anyone trying to decide to go hardcore on Overwatch or stick with tf2: if valve puts out advertising on TF2 matchmaking (steam store front page or an actual ad campaign), it's worth staying with tf2. If valve doesn't make a big deal about it, it may be better to switch if you think you have what it takes to be at the top.

But remember. If you don't seriously think you could be a top gamer in Overwatch, just stick with TF2. It's proven fun, and the community is still growing, just not as explosively as any new game.

I doubt the actual 6s players would want to play matchmaking with all the pub bullshit

I think it's in the best interest of any moderately talented TF2 player to give Overwatch a legitimate shot; the game has some moba-esque features, but a TF2 or any other arena FPS player will have a ridiculously insane advantage over anyone switching from Dota2 or League assuming similar ranking and talent in their respective genres.

TF2 won't be dying anytime soon, but no doubt the upper levels of the game will suffer heavily from the release of Overwatch, and with good reason too. It's still a fresh new game with striking similarities and mechanics to TF2, has the backing of a major company who is well-invested and experienced with eSports. It brings many new goals, challenges, and opportunities to TF2 players who always wanted more out of their efforts; a game being fun only goes so far in terms of motivation to continue playing. As enticing as the anticipated matchmaking is going to be, it doesn't hold a candle to what Blizzard has planned for this game.

Now for my final point, the most important part, the game looks really fun, it's set in an interesting world with an amazing backstory and well fleshed-out character personalities, somewhat like TF2. Unless you just have an undying love for TF2, there's really no reason to not give the game an initial effort at the very least.

Arx I think one thing you are discounting is assuming that valve would not respond to overwatch w/ prize pools of their own. There's no doubt in my mind if blizzard goes hard at competitive with large prize pools etc then Valve will respond w/ TF2 in the same way. I think the main reason they have not done that w/ TF2 is that there has been a disconnect between the competitive play and pub play. Matchmaking will finally bridge that divide between casual and competitive scenes which imo is a huge deal for their future support of the scene. Look at what they did w/ Dota to compete w/ LoL. They aren't just going to sit idly by and let blizzard take player share. :)

People SHOULD go to overwatch if it has more support in the competitive scene, even if they love TF2. If nothing else it forces Valve to up its support in kind. If Valve fails to respond then you picked the better option anyway.