What good is matchmaking if people don't know how to sign up for ESEA and ETF2L?
How can we bring more people into TF2?
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TF2 General Discussion
tf2 is hard to watch? There are literal 5 minute stalemates all the time
if anything, it can be a little boring at times
tf2 is hard to watch? There are literal 5 minute stalemates all the time
if anything, it can be a little boring at times
if anything, it can be a little boring at times
If anybody would like to be a body actor for a intro to TF2 movie plz add me on steam. Hoping to make a test sequence this Sunday.
Bonus if u have a 12 man server to use
If anybody would like to be a body actor for a intro to TF2 movie plz add me on steam. Hoping to make a test sequence this Sunday.
Bonus if u have a 12 man server to use
Bonus if u have a 12 man server to use
Hellbenttf2 is hard to watch? There are literal 5 minute stalemates all the time
if anything, it can be a little boring at times
I think that it is actually pretty hard to watch comp tf2 for a person who have small amount of experience about the game, or (and) knows almost nothing about it.
But it applies to every other esport as well, so problem is not because "tf2 is hard to watch"
[quote=Hellbent]tf2 is hard to watch? There are literal 5 minute stalemates all the time
if anything, it can be a little boring at times[/quote]
I think that it is actually pretty hard to watch comp tf2 for a person who have small amount of experience about the game, or (and) knows almost nothing about it.
But it applies to every other esport as well, so problem is not because "tf2 is hard to watch"
if anything, it can be a little boring at times[/quote]
I think that it is actually pretty hard to watch comp tf2 for a person who have small amount of experience about the game, or (and) knows almost nothing about it.
But it applies to every other esport as well, so problem is not because "tf2 is hard to watch"
Third person is hard to do right 99% of the time. The only times I've made it work well are when going third person on a trap for a medic pick because usually from the demo/med perspective it's hard to tell what happened. The biggest problem is moving the camera into position which looks really bad and you can't do any kind of smooth camera work with mouse look.
Third person is hard to do right 99% of the time. The only times I've made it work well are when going third person on a trap for a medic pick because usually from the demo/med perspective it's hard to tell what happened. The biggest problem is moving the camera into position which looks really bad and you can't do any kind of smooth camera work with mouse look.
Maybe try and make an unofficial minimap of some kind for spectator mode? At least when I follow CSGO and Dota2 I usually use the minimap to see what is going on, would really help people to see where the fight is happening and when it's going to happen (roamer hiding, scout flanking, people pushing from another door than what the defenders were looking at etc.)
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.
Maybe try and make an unofficial minimap of some kind for spectator mode? At least when I follow CSGO and Dota2 I usually use the minimap to see what is going on, would really help people to see where the fight is happening and when it's going to happen (roamer hiding, scout flanking, people pushing from another door than what the defenders were looking at etc.)
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.
SetletMaybe try and make an unofficial minimap of some kind for spectator mode? At least when I follow CSGO and Dota2 I usually use the minimap to see what is going on, would really help people to see where the fight is happening and when it's going to happen (roamer hiding, scout flanking, people pushing from another door than what the defenders were looking at etc.)
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.
iirc they already tried to do a minimap but it didnt work
[quote=Setlet]Maybe try and make an unofficial minimap of some kind for spectator mode? At least when I follow CSGO and Dota2 I usually use the minimap to see what is going on, would really help people to see where the fight is happening and when it's going to happen (roamer hiding, scout flanking, people pushing from another door than what the defenders were looking at etc.)
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.[/quote]
iirc they already tried to do a minimap but it didnt work
Might be impossible to do but perhaps worth a shot.[/quote]
iirc they already tried to do a minimap but it didnt work
the301stspartanM4ngoLthe entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11
Lmao what it's the third most played game
That's what's surprising. It may be 3rd on Steam, but look how far it's trailing #2: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
[quote=the301stspartan][quote=M4ngoL]the entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11[/quote]
Lmao what it's the third most played game[/quote]
That's what's surprising. It may be 3rd on Steam, but look how far it's trailing #2: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Lmao what it's the third most played game[/quote]
That's what's surprising. It may be 3rd on Steam, but look how far it's trailing #2: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
shorasSpe0comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like...hearthstone.I really hope you're trolling.
To each his own, I guess. I,personally, found that watching Hearthstone as a newb was easier to digest than watching tf2 as a newb and I dont think I'm in the minority here.
[quote=shoras][quote=Spe0]comp tf2 is not as fun to watch as something like...hearthstone.[/quote]
I really hope you're trolling.[/quote]
To each his own, I guess. I,personally, found that watching Hearthstone as a newb was easier to digest than watching tf2 as a newb and I dont think I'm in the minority here.
I really hope you're trolling.[/quote]
To each his own, I guess. I,personally, found that watching Hearthstone as a newb was easier to digest than watching tf2 as a newb and I dont think I'm in the minority here.
googleblehThat's what's surprising. It may be 3rd on Steam, but look how far it's trailing #2: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
I think most people would take 1/10 or 1/15 of the prize money, viewers, etc
[quote=googlebleh]That's what's surprising. It may be 3rd on Steam, but look how far it's trailing #2: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/[/quote]
I think most people would take 1/10 or 1/15 of the prize money, viewers, etc
I think most people would take 1/10 or 1/15 of the prize money, viewers, etc
SideshowYou're forgetting that Valve put big money and in-game shit into these titles after they had already built a booming comp scene. CS and Dota were already far bigger scenes than TF2 is competitively before GO and dota2 were even released. The issue is not that we're being denied our rightful share of a paycheck or w/e, we have much more fundamental problems.
IIRC this is the rationale behind putting matchmaking in the game, changing casual players into competitive gamers and establishing the base for a different TF2. It's a long road though, MM is still in beta so it's not even open to everybody yet.
[quote=Sideshow]You're forgetting that Valve put big money and in-game shit into these titles [i]after[/i] they had already built a booming comp scene. CS and Dota were already far bigger scenes than TF2 is competitively before GO and dota2 were even released. The issue is not that we're being denied our rightful share of a paycheck or w/e, we have much more fundamental problems.[/quote]
IIRC this is the rationale behind putting matchmaking in the game, changing casual players into competitive gamers and establishing the base for a different TF2. It's a long road though, MM is still in beta so it's not even open to everybody yet.
IIRC this is the rationale behind putting matchmaking in the game, changing casual players into competitive gamers and establishing the base for a different TF2. It's a long road though, MM is still in beta so it's not even open to everybody yet.
As everybody has said, it's (for the most part) out of the hands of the community. Valve has to take measures to reinvigorate the game with matchmaking, rebalances, performance improvements, and consistent communication.
The community can help through events (ToTH, i55 etc). The more the community contributes to these, the more tf2 will reach out and people can see how cool the game is when everyone gets together. Smaller ways include things like creating popular media for the game like videos and artwork/mods that get shared around a lot. But these things have been around for so long and dried out that it's difficult to make anything that's new or interesting, So even then those are limited unless valve adds more content to cover in-game.
As everybody has said, it's (for the most part) out of the hands of the community. Valve has to take measures to reinvigorate the game with matchmaking, rebalances, performance improvements, and consistent communication.
The community can help through events (ToTH, i55 etc). The more the community contributes to these, the more tf2 will reach out and people can see how cool the game is when everyone gets together. Smaller ways include things like creating popular media for the game like videos and artwork/mods that get shared around a lot. But these things have been around for so long and dried out that it's difficult to make anything that's new or interesting, So even then those are limited unless valve adds more content to cover in-game.
The community can help through events (ToTH, i55 etc). The more the community contributes to these, the more tf2 will reach out and people can see how cool the game is when everyone gets together. Smaller ways include things like creating popular media for the game like videos and artwork/mods that get shared around a lot. But these things have been around for so long and dried out that it's difficult to make anything that's new or interesting, So even then those are limited unless valve adds more content to cover in-game.
DavidTheWinThird person is hard to do right 99% of the time. The only times I've made it work well are when going third person on a trap for a medic pick because usually from the demo/med perspective it's hard to tell what happened. The biggest problem is moving the camera into position which looks really bad and you can't do any kind of smooth camera work with mouse look.
Theres alot of camera men that Use third person in CS and they do it with a controller to my knowledge (smooth transitions/movement/rotation) , it can be pulled off in TF2 if we steal some tricks of the trade and apply them to our own craft for better production quality, it could defo help out with some of the issues in the above statement.
[quote=DavidTheWin]Third person is hard to do right 99% of the time. The only times I've made it work well are when going third person on a trap for a medic pick because usually from the demo/med perspective it's hard to tell what happened. The biggest problem is moving the camera into position which looks really bad and you can't do any kind of smooth camera work with mouse look.[/quote]
Theres alot of camera men that Use third person in CS and they do it with a controller to my knowledge (smooth transitions/movement/rotation) , it can be pulled off in TF2 if we steal some tricks of the trade and apply them to our own craft for better production quality, it could defo help out with some of the issues in the above statement.
Theres alot of camera men that Use third person in CS and they do it with a controller to my knowledge (smooth transitions/movement/rotation) , it can be pulled off in TF2 if we steal some tricks of the trade and apply them to our own craft for better production quality, it could defo help out with some of the issues in the above statement.
http://steamcharts.com/app/440
There's a number of issues biggest one is our playerbase in general has been horribly stagnant. We're at our lowest point since May 2014 for average players. Even then it's not really a big decrease we've been around 45k-55k for the most part since 2012.
Only Valve can fix that. Getting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game. Whenever valve does their performance patch then we'll likely see a ton of players comeback.
As for competitive there's a lot of things that can fix that, most of which rely on Valve. But all things considered TF2 has a much healthier competitive community than any other FPS outside of CSGO. Every CoD league since MW as soon as the developer stops pumping money into the game which is usually less than 6 months maybe 1 yr dies and dies fast. Battlefield 4 at it's largest was fractional in size to their equivalent tf2 league on that continent. So all and all tf2 really isn't doing that bad.
http://steamcharts.com/app/440
There's a number of issues biggest one is our playerbase in general has been horribly stagnant. We're at our lowest point since May 2014 for average players. Even then it's not really a big decrease we've been around 45k-55k for the most part since 2012.
Only Valve can fix that. Getting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game. Whenever valve does their performance patch then we'll likely see a ton of players comeback.
As for competitive there's a lot of things that can fix that, most of which rely on Valve. But all things considered TF2 has a much healthier competitive community than any other FPS outside of CSGO. Every CoD league since MW as soon as the developer stops pumping money into the game which is usually less than 6 months maybe 1 yr dies and dies fast. Battlefield 4 at it's largest was fractional in size to their equivalent tf2 league on that continent. So all and all tf2 really isn't doing that bad.
There's a number of issues biggest one is our playerbase in general has been horribly stagnant. We're at our lowest point since May 2014 for average players. Even then it's not really a big decrease we've been around 45k-55k for the most part since 2012.
Only Valve can fix that. Getting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game. Whenever valve does their performance patch then we'll likely see a ton of players comeback.
As for competitive there's a lot of things that can fix that, most of which rely on Valve. But all things considered TF2 has a much healthier competitive community than any other FPS outside of CSGO. Every CoD league since MW as soon as the developer stops pumping money into the game which is usually less than 6 months maybe 1 yr dies and dies fast. Battlefield 4 at it's largest was fractional in size to their equivalent tf2 league on that continent. So all and all tf2 really isn't doing that bad.
ComangliaGetting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game.
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters
[quote=Comanglia]Getting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game. [/quote]
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters
My experience in promoting signups for TF2 has one common trend, go and look at the stats if you don't believe me but there is always a positive impact on the signups (whether a percentage increase or slowing the trend of decreasing) with ETF2L after a newbie tournament or event is held by the league. Leagues should do them at minimum once a year, ideally 3 times a year for each gamemode.
My experience in promoting signups for TF2 has one common trend, go and look at the stats if you don't believe me but there is always a positive impact on the signups (whether a percentage increase or slowing the trend of decreasing) with ETF2L after a newbie tournament or event is held by the league. Leagues should do them at minimum once a year, ideally 3 times a year for each gamemode.
imo there's a transition gap for newer competitive players. newbie mixes is an absolutely incredible setup, however I recall a few people mentioning that it's hard to get people to leave, or "graduate". Right now the flow looks like this:
"I think I might want to play competitive!" > Newbie Mixes
Newbie Mixes > Lobbies / Pug groups
Lobbies/Pug groups > team
I'll omit discussing pug groups because of accessibility/management.
TF2Stadium and TF2Center offer accessibility to the 6's format. However, there are a few reasons they're not ideal for newer competitive players. For example, I started 6's at 200 hours, before the 300 hour limit was imposed on TF2c. I was then and am now playing against gamers with thousands of hours of experience. The skill gap can be incredibly wide, and very discouraging to new players fresh out of newbie mixes.
At this point in time I have neither the resources nor the knowledge to create anything to fill this gap. Just wanted to remind that it's there.
imo there's a transition gap for newer competitive players. newbie mixes is an absolutely incredible setup, however I recall a few people mentioning that it's hard to get people to leave, or "graduate". Right now the flow looks like this:
"I think I might want to play competitive!" > Newbie Mixes
Newbie Mixes > Lobbies / Pug groups
Lobbies/Pug groups > team
I'll omit discussing pug groups because of accessibility/management.
TF2Stadium and TF2Center offer accessibility to the 6's format. However, there are a few reasons they're not ideal for newer competitive players. For example, I started 6's at 200 hours, before the 300 hour limit was imposed on TF2c. I was then and am now playing against gamers with thousands of hours of experience. The skill gap can be incredibly wide, and very discouraging to new players fresh out of newbie mixes.
At this point in time I have neither the resources nor the knowledge to create anything to fill this gap. Just wanted to remind that it's there.
"I think I might want to play competitive!" > Newbie Mixes
Newbie Mixes > Lobbies / Pug groups
Lobbies/Pug groups > team
I'll omit discussing pug groups because of accessibility/management.
TF2Stadium and TF2Center offer accessibility to the 6's format. However, there are a few reasons they're not ideal for newer competitive players. For example, I started 6's at 200 hours, before the 300 hour limit was imposed on TF2c. I was then and am now playing against gamers with thousands of hours of experience. The skill gap can be incredibly wide, and very discouraging to new players fresh out of newbie mixes.
At this point in time I have neither the resources nor the knowledge to create anything to fill this gap. Just wanted to remind that it's there.
HildrethMy experience in promoting signups for TF2 has one common trend, go and look at the stats if you don't believe me but there is always a positive impact on the signups (whether a percentage increase or slowing the trend of decreasing) with ETF2L after a newbie tournament or event is held by the league. Leagues should do them at minimum once a year, ideally 3 times a year for each gamemode.
100% agree with this, myself and a lot of the people I know were introduced into competitive tf2 through the highlander open and as you say, I imagine the same is true of the 6v6 newbie cup etf2l hosted.
Whatever your opinion on highlander might be, these cups are essential for getting some new blood into the game and I'd love to help in the future towards any newbie tournaments ran by ETF2L.
[quote=Hildreth]My experience in promoting signups for TF2 has one common trend, go and look at the stats if you don't believe me but there is always a positive impact on the signups (whether a percentage increase or slowing the trend of decreasing) with ETF2L after a newbie tournament or event is held by the league. Leagues should do them at minimum once a year, ideally 3 times a year for each gamemode.[/quote]
100% agree with this, myself and a lot of the people I know were introduced into competitive tf2 through the highlander open and as you say, I imagine the same is true of the 6v6 newbie cup etf2l hosted.
Whatever your opinion on highlander might be, these cups are essential for getting some new blood into the game and I'd love to help in the future towards any newbie tournaments ran by ETF2L.
100% agree with this, myself and a lot of the people I know were introduced into competitive tf2 through the highlander open and as you say, I imagine the same is true of the 6v6 newbie cup etf2l hosted.
Whatever your opinion on highlander might be, these cups are essential for getting some new blood into the game and I'd love to help in the future towards any newbie tournaments ran by ETF2L.
the301stspartanM4ngoLthe entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11
Lmao what it's the third most played game
http://i.imgur.com/VgVPEIW.png
the gap though
[quote=the301stspartan][quote=M4ngoL]the entire tf2 scene is small in general. TF2 is only 1/7 the size of csgo and 1/11[/quote]
Lmao what it's the third most played game[/quote]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/VgVPEIW.png[/img]
the gap though
Lmao what it's the third most played game[/quote]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/VgVPEIW.png[/img]
the gap though
Kind if a side note, but I really wish ESEA was more active with the tf2 community. I never see anything posted by them in regards to tf2 on social media, youtube, etc. I don't follow comp all that much these days but it seems every single season is a big question mark on whether ESEA will even still support tf2. From what I see tri is the only one actively promoting sign ups. I feel if ESEA actually promoted our game, we would get some more exposure and not struggle to have three divisions every season.
Kind if a side note, but I really wish ESEA was more active with the tf2 community. I never see anything posted by them in regards to tf2 on social media, youtube, etc. I don't follow comp all that much these days but it seems every single season is a big question mark on whether ESEA will even still support tf2. From what I see tri is the only one actively promoting sign ups. I feel if ESEA actually promoted our game, we would get some more exposure and not struggle to have three divisions every season.
mComangliaGetting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game.
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters
axiomatic
[quote=m][quote=Comanglia]Getting rid of a lot of cheaters last month will likely see some people come back to the game. [/quote]
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters[/quote]
axiomatic
i do not know a single player who has left the game because he felt like there were too many cheaters[/quote]
axiomatic
Looking at the DreamHack HotS stream, they are currently doing a "Battleground Information" of one of their game modes so new viewers understand what's going on. Not saying of course that this is the answer to your question, but it could help those new to TF2/comp on what to know and understand about the game before a match begins. Maybe have a video of someone explaining 5cp and the classes that will generally be played or something along those lines during the downtimes.
Looking at the DreamHack HotS stream, they are currently doing a "Battleground Information" of one of their game modes so new viewers understand what's going on. Not saying of course that this is the answer to your question, but it could help those new to TF2/comp on what to know and understand about the game before a match begins. Maybe have a video of someone explaining 5cp and the classes that will generally be played or something along those lines during the downtimes.
I think retention could be improved with a little work. I'm a 400 hour pub player and I don't really know where to go next. I'm always one of the better players in pubs but how I take it to the next level is unclear, be it comp or whatever.
My point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.
As has been said, Valve needs to do it. The community is pretty good usually.
I think retention could be improved with a little work. I'm a 400 hour pub player and I don't really know where to go next. I'm always one of the better players in pubs but how I take it to the next level is unclear, be it comp or whatever.
My point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.
As has been said, Valve needs to do it. The community is pretty good usually.
My point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.
As has been said, Valve needs to do it. The community is pretty good usually.
It's funny that nobody realises how csgo started to grow as valve came out with majors. The truth is that people have spent so much money on hats valve should be able to create some tournament.
It's funny that nobody realises how csgo started to grow as valve came out with majors. The truth is that people have spent so much money on hats valve should be able to create some tournament.
Our hat transactions probably have paid out a lot of the staff for those productions.
Our hat transactions probably have paid out a lot of the staff for those productions.
AdebisiMy point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.
Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.
[quote=Adebisi]My point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.[/quote]
Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.
Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.
GentlemanJonAdebisiMy point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.
Yeah that's exactly it. When I do play MM I have no idea how to play and it's not really made clear except GET OFF PYRO', but I think they could eventually set it up as a really good intro, especially if it had guides and some sort of community training interaction..
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.
[quote=GentlemanJon][quote=Adebisi]My point is not really about me as such, it's that I don't think the game guides you in this. New players just see quickplay or whatever and are not really informed about what else they can do to really dive into the game. The result is that I imagine people get bored of casual pub games and as their interest wanes, they stop playing the game. Essentially Valve should improve the visibility of comp or other stuff. Imo anyway, maybe Im wrong.[/quote]
Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.[/quote]
Yeah that's exactly it. When I do play MM I have no idea how to play and it's not really made clear except GET OFF PYRO', but I think they could eventually set it up as a really good intro, especially if it had guides and some sort of community training interaction..
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.
Yes, this is what MM needs to be about, providing that ladder experience so you get a sense of progression and learn the competitive formats, and sometimes test yourself against the best. That needs to be coupled with some visible support for competitive events.
The competitive scene is almost as invisible as it has always been, but the way things have developed with Twitch having big events has become a big part of promoting a game, better promoted competition targetting the same audience (*cough* Overwatch) will eventually bleed the scene, and the game as a whole, dry.[/quote]
Yeah that's exactly it. When I do play MM I have no idea how to play and it's not really made clear except GET OFF PYRO', but I think they could eventually set it up as a really good intro, especially if it had guides and some sort of community training interaction..
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.
AdebisiYeah that's exactly it. When I do play MM I have no idea how to play and it's not really made clear except GET OFF PYRO', but I think they could eventually set it up as a really good intro, especially if it had guides and some sort of community training interaction..
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.
When you look at the guides and support Dota has in client and how they relate to the game, i.e. they actually do relate to the game, it's kind of ridiculous you have these vague and misleading class definitions of attack/defence in TF2 and that's pretty much it. Because the game development went in the direction of items, f2p, micro transactions and eventually community contributions providing the engine for all of that it seems to have been left with a skeleton crew of developers. There's a long way to go but hopefully they'll keep pushing it, and resource it properly.
[quote=Adebisi]Yeah that's exactly it. When I do play MM I have no idea how to play and it's not really made clear except GET OFF PYRO', but I think they could eventually set it up as a really good intro, especially if it had guides and some sort of community training interaction..
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.[/quote]
When you look at the guides and support Dota has in client and how they relate to the game, i.e. they actually do relate to the game, it's kind of ridiculous you have these vague and misleading class definitions of attack/defence in TF2 and that's pretty much it. Because the game development went in the direction of items, f2p, micro transactions and eventually community contributions providing the engine for all of that it seems to have been left with a skeleton crew of developers. There's a long way to go but hopefully they'll keep pushing it, and resource it properly.
I'd love to play comp but I don't really know how or if I'm ready, and this is exactly where Valve needs to step in. I'm probably the sort to do something about it, but I think a lot of players would lose interest and stop playing.[/quote]
When you look at the guides and support Dota has in client and how they relate to the game, i.e. they actually do relate to the game, it's kind of ridiculous you have these vague and misleading class definitions of attack/defence in TF2 and that's pretty much it. Because the game development went in the direction of items, f2p, micro transactions and eventually community contributions providing the engine for all of that it seems to have been left with a skeleton crew of developers. There's a long way to go but hopefully they'll keep pushing it, and resource it properly.
The biggest issue imo is that none of the tf2 dev team actually play comp. The one with the highest hours afaik, Jill, is an engineer main. They can't really write guides for competitive tf2, because they probably don't understand the game. They really should be reaching out to higher level players for this, but this is valve we're talking about...
The biggest issue imo is that none of the tf2 dev team actually play comp. The one with the highest hours afaik, Jill, is an engineer main. They can't really write guides for competitive tf2, because they probably don't understand the game. They really should be reaching out to higher level players for this, but this is valve we're talking about...
what really got csgo to become such a big game esports-wise is that the betting scene really grew. csgolounge brought tons of viewers and with valve giving the souvenir skins and stuff for watching their majors, tons of people watched with the purpose of winning skins. If valve did some tournament for tf2 where every round people had the opportunity to get signed weapons or something along those lines, I could definitely see more people watching.
what really got csgo to become such a big game esports-wise is that the betting scene really grew. csgolounge brought tons of viewers and with valve giving the souvenir skins and stuff for watching their majors, tons of people watched with the purpose of winning skins. If valve did some tournament for tf2 where every round people had the opportunity to get signed weapons or something along those lines, I could definitely see more people watching.
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