http://puu.sh/oEsEC/5168b7abaa.jpg

Props in this area still feel like they could be clipped a bit better, I still feel like how they were handled in the release version of Snakewater was the best by a large margin.

http://puu.sh/oEsJp/fee2e6514b.jpg

I feel like this should be flat like the above area since if you jump or get bounced around you can easily get caught on the edges that stick out.

http://puu.sh/oEsNq/156206e2ff.jpg

I really like the decision to use this prop over the boxes, seems to work fine with splash and personally I think it looks nicer than the boxes ever did.

http://puu.sh/oEsU3/d5e926389f.jpg

Clipping the undersides of this would be nice, would prevent the same issues as I mentioned on the bridge on second.

http://puu.sh/oEsXL/4577741f31.jpg

The shed is only clipped on BLU side :(

http://puu.sh/oEt25/933daca8d9.png

On the BLU side of mid leading towards lower on the wall there is a fairly rough section of clipping that does not quite line up.

http://puu.sh/oEt97/7ea78e2698.jpg

I think I mentioned this before but better mirroring would be really nice on mid, specifically the exits from saw into mid. On Red side there is a decent amount more wall that you could potentially jump off of.

http://puu.sh/oEtfv/eb1862a3ca.jpg

Hiding spot, unsure if intended. I personally don't think it'd make that much of an impact if left in though.

http://puu.sh/oEtmH/27a9b06791.jpg

Slight bit of clipping around the edges of these props would be a nice touch since you can get snagged on the little indent between the small pile of firewood and the planks

http://i.imgur.com/nMgn1uo.jpg

This clipping seems wierd. In my opinion, you should make the clip straight and make the part of the roof sticking out nonsolid.

http://i.imgur.com/a8NUTcj.jpg

I suspect there is a blockbullets brush here. I understand that you don't want to have stickies in spots like these, but you can still have those stickies on the right side of the metal ramp. I would make the blockbullets brush larger.

http://i.imgur.com/pKiuZnB.jpg

A clip sticking out too long. Only on red side (last) from what I saw.

http://i.imgur.com/SiTMgNO.jpg

Bluething above healthkit in lobby has its clipping too far out.

http://i.imgur.com/aXjHko5.jpg

This is really wierd. If I was you I would make the clipping above these walls on last completely vertical, or all with a slight angle, not mix those things. In rare cases, demomen who sticky jump or people who get juggled will get stuck on this...

Other than that, I'm really liking 99% of the changes you are making. Keep the good work up!

http://puu.sh/oGjBd/43da462281.jpg

http://puu.sh/oEtfv/eb1862a3ca.jpg

I can't reproduce this one, what are you standing on?

http://puu.sh/oGjBd/43da462281.jpg

What am I looking at?

if some one could please send me a link of how to make a map i would be happy

http://tf2maps.net/forums/tutorials-resources.57/

thanks

You can still get caught on the corners of the top-left roofs at Mid; the clipbrushes don't cover it completely. On both RED and BLU:

http://i.imgur.com/1yCRdef.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v2jYABK.jpg

Wallbug (or whatever you call it when you can stick to walls) over Cliff, both RED and BLU.

http://i.imgur.com/DFe9HSU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iSsEndT.jpg

Thanks Bilbert,

I didn't have time to fix these bugs as I compiled u8 over the day. Here's the download:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u8.bsp.bz2

Changelog u8

* Improved clipping near window
* Fixed not being able to jump from fence to cheese
* Fixed some texture bugs
* Fixed some more edges
* Fixed some misaligned clips
* Fixed a weird hiding spot
* Improved log splash behaviour

It seems like bugs keep cropping up; but it's good to get this in depth. I really feel like the stable version is creeping closer.

Thanks for all your assistance!

There are so many more shadows on this map than the previous version of snakewater and also every other map. There's a shadow everywhere a person stands. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but it's a pretty big issue. There are literally no hiding spots anymore. Every single corner you can possibly stand in, you either see the person through the wall or you see their feet. There are shadows where teams/players push. For example, if somebody grabs the hp in saw, you can see their shadow from mid. If somebody is hugging the any part of the wall on the ramp in lower, or even just pushing lower, you can see his shadow from anywhere on 2nd.

is it me or the last in the new version is darker?

Please stop with the lighting posts, the map has been compiled with less than optimal settings so that he doesn't have to compile for 12 hours at a time.

good on ya lain

Hey Lain ( ° ͜ʖ͡°)╭∩╮

Today i was watching dd+5abs vs top5rocket and a saw this:

http://i.imgur.com/y6NosQn.jpg

I thought you needed to know that you can walk right on the edge of the roof

If you can get me screens of where this happens I can start adding "shadow blockers" where necessary.

As for the lighting, this version is now slightly darker than the stock one. I suppose this is a matter of design preference - I think the current version is fine in terms of gameplay and doesnt look nearly as flat and bland as _final1.

Also, thanks for the bugfinds. I hope u9 will be veery close to the final version.

Don't think you should be able to see light through those logs.

http://i.imgur.com/hlVnJbx.jpg

http://imgur.com/ZZS8XNu

It could be that I am used to the original, and am having a hard time adjusting. But the contrast between the trees in the background and the log at second makes my eyes hurt. My brain is trying to figure out what is causing this area to be so much darker than the background.

Also, it's kinda weird to me how under the point is brighter than the surface of it. Or that the lantern below is brighter than the spotlight.

I used mat_fullbright 2 to look at the lighting only.

Hey guys,

Updated to u9: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u9.bsp.bz2

Changelog u9:

* Repainted RED lobby (already in u8)
* Removed clutter in lower lobby (already in u8)
* Fixed top right roofs on mid not being mirrored
* Fixed lobby "shelves" not being mirrored
* Fixed corners of top left roofs on mid
* Removed beams and clutter in spawn ceiling
* Kind of fixed being able to stand on clip walls (apparently it's a known Source bug)
* Improved lighting further
* Fixed some shadows leaking through walls

Not sure what led you to remove the ledge underneath window but imo it should be changed back to the way it used to be, I've never heard anyone complain about it being too easy to jump into window in the final version and now it just screws you if you don't do the jump perfectly
edit: also the lighting is really ugly imo, on red second (iirc) the entire point is brightly lit and in sunlight, but on the other second it's all dark and shadowy and the only part that's bright is part of grass which makes it pretty hard to look at

I really can't comment on the lighting unless you supply screenshots - on my setup it looks fine but I'm running rather high quality settings, maybe fps configs or other variables affect the appearance. Now it should be pretty much reverted to _final1 (literally the same lighting settings), which I personally think looks far worse but which probably plays better.

You forgot to mention that this was also fixed in u9.

So, it can't really be fixed? _u9 still lets you stand over cliff. Also, you can stand over all the chain-link fences at last, both RED and BLU. (Screenshots are from _u8, but I checked that the problem is still there in _u9.)

http://i.imgur.com/v83NYMu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZpvSxQp.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/JwRv6WJ.jpg

The eaves of the buildings around Yard are still solid. They never interfere with jumps or surfs, but it may be nice to have all the eaves on the map nonsolid for consistency. (Again, _u8 screenshots. I checked that _u9 has the same issue.)

http://i.imgur.com/diq6n2C.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UFUSwFv.jpg

As far as I know this problem only occurs with clip walls diagonal to coordinates grid. The only real way to fix it is to remove all such clip walls.

I thought that was fixed in u8: * Improved clipping near window.
I didn't check though.

/

From what I have been told this is coming very close to release, there are not many things that I've noticed that would really make a huge difference in gameplay but here's a list of a bunch of nit-picky things that slightly bother me.

http://puu.sh/oWSAZ/57e94504b4.jpg

These windows are different than the ones on Blu side. Also they're only on the outside. They also look pretty out of place since they're meant to be vertical windows with the little lip at the bottom. If possible I would make them look like how they do on Blu sides outside portion.

http://puu.sh/oWSPt/8a9ab7ea4a.jpg

Windows only on one side. (Same on both sides of the map)

http://puu.sh/oWSXm/eab4638d1c.jpg

This area seems kinda strange looking without a 3d skybox (Not sure if the map had one before but seeing into the void from a common perch spot is kinda weird. You could easily fix it up with some displacements or a few the rock props like you did near the forward spawn). Also I would consider clipping the concrete things so they're flush with the roof and then nodraw most of the inside of that little area under the slope. Better yet just fill it up and prevent stuff from rendering/drawing light all together.

http://puu.sh/oWT9s/68b15e71d7.jpg

I agree with bear and think that this little ledge under the window should be returned. If you removed it for clipping purposes I believe you could just make another slanted brush to surround it and prevent it from interfering with jumps.

http://puu.sh/oWTlh/f76fe20481.jpg

Fence props on both sides going through the roof.

http://puu.sh/oWTnG/db6a3178a8.jpg

Prop clipping into the fence as well as having pretty bad clipping. Easy to get stuck against it and I can imagine it messing up medics surfs since it's common to get bombed while your team is pushing through the lower area.

http://puu.sh/oWTxK/d691a5d17e.jpg

Clipping is kinda weird here but there is not much you can do besides blockbullet clip everything manually with nonsolid props. I would probably clip over the area underneath the stairs since there is no real purpose to ever go there.

http://puu.sh/oWTQ7/f7ab1628fc.jpg

This clipping could be touched up a bit

http://puu.sh/oWTUr/664573af17.jpg

Seems strange to have two different clipping styles directly next to each other

http://puu.sh/oWU3C/e4a5864519.jpg

You can get caught on this overhang. The little diagonal brush probably also should not be solid (Similar to the tunnel on Product)

http://puu.sh/oWUi7/280f21155c.jpg

I'm quite sure this is unintentional.

http://puu.sh/oWUwi/f9c7221c86.jpg

Clipping in this area is kinda strange, could probably be used as a shitty hiding spot but I think you should either throw a prop or two in there and clip the whole area over or extend the little ramp deck area and then add props and clip it over so its a bit more lined up with the wall it is next to. You could probably do the same thing with the area under the stairs since you seem to have done that on most of the staircases on the map so far but having a few hiding spots is fine imo.

edit found more stuff

http://puu.sh/oXj2Q/bc3b261c49.jpg

Pipe between the two things up top is only rendered when you're on mid

http://puu.sh/oXjaZ/83db6f0550.jpg

same thing here.

Thanks benroads, as always a pleasure to go through your posts.

I really hope the u10 version released this weekend will be the one shipped to valve. This means it's a good time to spam your feedback right now, especially considering the map has been played in the first week of the ETF2L season.

The main concern that I've been made aware of is the canopy above the saw-2 connector which has had two negative consequences:

1. Making medic chases from saw to lobby far too easy
2. Making bombs onto saw too efficient when defending 2

The current solution is to pull back the canopy halfway to its original position - I firmly believe this change will make the map flow faster, and it also helps rollouts, so I won't revert it fully for now.

Huge thanks to anyone who's submitted feedback so far, and please keep at it until we've got a perfect version to ship to Valve.

Cheers,
chojje