Whip the players

Whats wrong with stalemates exactly? It's lame when the other team are big weenies or trying to park the bus on you, but it's up to you to figure out what to do - it's not impossible to push out it's just something most teams pry don't practice a lot and so they get scared and a vicious cycle of weeniedom ensues.

You are completely right but I feel some situations weren't meant to happen in the mind of the devs : people camping on top of blands spire with better spawns AND better position for example is quite lame because the team that has to push has everything against it.

Could reduce the timer for when a round will reset. More midfights, if you park the bus you would be giving up middle point which favors more offensive play from the losing team.

Every competitive game ever is slower/stalemates more on games with money involved.

People don't want to lose money = people play more carefully.

There's not much you can do about it.

randomly spawn saxton hale if a team holds point for too long

Brainwash everyone to play like Jasmine Tea

who does he attack

What if

What if

you fix 5cp, by playing less 5cp

Make it easier to push out of 99% of the last points in the game with either no adv or small adv

then last points would just be unpushable without big ad and no round would ever end. you need to go the opposite way, make last points harder to defend and more teams would risk a push out of last because they have lower chances of successfully defending. that would cause fewer stalemates at last and more rounds on the board.

also imo its less worthwhile to talk about creating maps to suit the balance of the game because A.) that requires a massive amount of effort and B.) the community dislikes new maps in general and new maps take a huge amount of time to catch on (which would especially be the case with maps that have dramatically different pushing dynamics than traditional 5cp maps). slight balance changes to classes or gameplay elements that can work with the existing 8 maps can be done a lot more easily and tested very quickly.

Revert Half of the medic buffs in the pass year

I think that even if you change the shape of the maps the basic premise of the game is flawed. Many people in the community have discussed this at length but if you make it super easy to do something that doesn't FORCE them to do it. A shot clock in basketball is what forces you to shoot the ball, not the fact that the basket is a little bit lower or that there's less defenders on the opposing team.

I think the developers would have to put some mechanic in the game that causes some kind of forced power shift if you don't push but I'm worried that it may be confusing. I think Riot Games did a great job with league where they added dragons that give you a temporary buff as a neutral objective. This forces teams to push out of their base and contest the neutral objective or face a team that is gaining buffs the longer the game goes on. We should be thinking in this way but ultimately this change would have to be made by the game developers.

I mean, someone COULD just make a 6CP custom map that is a 5CP with a 6th CP that caps super fast and is only open when you're contested over the mid point that gives a bonus to the team that owns it to force conflict.

Making enough of these for a whole season and then conveying it to spectators would obviously be the real problem though.

To deter stalemates, BM more. Call your opponents garbage, let them know that you know that the only reason they aren't pushing is because they are actual shit.

yet crowns are in the grand finals from the winner's side

@darknecrid you can't give more incentives to the pushing team because the problem with 5cp is that the team with advantage/initiative can literally choose to not use it for 10 minutes in the current format, forcing a stalemate. The only solution to this problem is to reward the team that caps the point with initiative for a short amount of time, and then if nothing happens transfer initiative to the other team.

An example of this would be in the current system:
1) froyo caps middle and now has respawn advantage via forward respawns. They have 90 seconds to capture 4th point.
2a) they cap 4th and the 90 second timer starts again OR
2b) If no capture point capture occurs in 90 seconds then froyo loses the forward spawn and now the forward spawn opens up for crowns, who were on their 2nd point.

This system is still a bit flawed but I'm just brainstorming.

Also watching i58 now I'm realizing a huge problem is that the shot clock timer is 1/3 of the map timer. All you do is go up 2-0 in thr first 8 minutes of play and after that you watch 22 minutes of stalemating and playing the clock :/

Sure the team deserves the win because they had to go up 2-0 in the first place but the clock favors the winning team too much and there's minimal opportunity for counterplay.

would it be a good idea to make the "shot clock" maybe 5 minutes? it would incentivize pushing and even if there's a stalemate then it would only be 5 minutes instead of 10?

That would encourage turtling last as you can wait out the clock and automatically get second sand possibly mid.

Why isn't KOTH the standard format for 6v6?

There are no stalemates in KOTH. There are no Engineers or Pyros and only very rarely Heavies. In NA we barely even snipe on via anymore iirc, and viaduct is a much better map for sniper than, say, coalplant.

KOTH is fun to watch. There's never any downtime. People are constantly dying left and right.

We should play more KOTH.

via is the only good koth map

High stakes games have always been like this.

Anything that incentivises pushing almost always does the reverse for the defenders. Shortening the capture clock, decay capped points, designing maps differently so you can push "downhill" from mid, they all stop defenders wanting to push back which might shorten stalemates but it would make the short ones more common.

I understand that people think that mappers need to make more koth maps so that we can finally get "another viaduct," but it's the mindset like this that's actually keeping koth maps out of the rotation.

I get where you're coming from, but we have, at least, two absolutely viable koth maps on this site right now, and there's definitely been a lack of testing for either.

Forge and Bagel are both excellent maps made by amazing mappers, and if we want "more koth," then we should definitely be doing more to support the people making them.

i cackled. thank you.

i didnt know these maps existed by i mean in the past when i experimented on koth maps they were very unpleasant. i'm usually very optimistic about new maps being played but i haven't had much fun with that as far as koth goes

I'm a huge bagel fanboy and estatic to see forge get support by ETF2L, but koth_avalanchev3 shouldn't be overlooked. Hopefully we'll get a few pugs on Avalanche tonight.

I'm not sure, I think more elements that allow for seesaw effects that promote pushing but are sufficiently skill based would work to prevent the problem. The problem is a lot of unlocks or elements that allow it (like random crits, picking up mediguns, etc) are nothing to do with skill, and given how few one shot kills there are in the game you end up with sniper battles which are just another stalemate.

The wider variety of ultimates in Overwatch may have been a design response to this specific problem in TF2. The banners are the kind of thing that might be useful in this area but they're also kind of free to charge up - just spam a choke and you're charged. It would be nice to have some more synergies in TF2 that can produce swings based on coordination and skill.

i've got it guys

we need to add a dragon to snakewater