And the hilarious thing is they were literally already in the game from last Halloween and now they don't work and the fix to get them to work also doesn't work.

I N T E R N T E A M

that's the result of them using matchmaking statistics to buff and nerf weapons..
if they implement this tf2 is beyond hope if it is in the hands of this company

at this point i'd rather have valve sell the rights to tf2 to a company like blizzard or ea than continuing to hope and pray they actually do something worth a shit

what are they doing holy shit

x

Contract work during 20 seconds then don't work at all, and a lot of people don't even have them

Yeah... Just pubbers...

i cant wait to see how bad they fuck up the game with what they think is proper balance

Maybe where you're from, but Muselk is Australian and here in Australia he was perfectly right. Either we get 200-300 ping Singapore games half the time, or we have insane wait times, sometimes indefinite, because we don't have the playerbase interested in playing tf2 competitively. This is what Muselk predicted.

I've literally left it searching on the weekend afternoon while playing MGE for hours, no games.

Serious question: what's the big "fix" that will "fix" TF2? long, whiny rant incoming

Not trying to blame you guys, but this comp community hates the offclasses and would prefer they stay the same. Most of the comp members hate 90% of the unlocks and would prefer that they just stay banned (and rightfully so, but still). You hate any other mode than 5cp and viaduct.

It's this weird circular logic, and it goes like this:

tf2 is full of unfun broken shit. We aren't going to try to fix the broken shit because that would mean using broken shit (pyro), which we don't want to do because it isn't fun, so we won't fix it, and it'll stay the same.

I've had so many arguments with people over the years on forums, ingame, and in person about how to fix the game. I get this same argument time and time again, about how they want everything to stay the same yet want valve to """fix""" everything.

No one gives a shit about 6s because 6s is nothing like actual TF2. Team fortress is very similar to overwatch, in some ways.

A heavy tries to push last on dustbowl. He has 450 health with a medic. He can't push around the corner because a sniper has a fully charged headshot waiting for him. A scout would try to harass the sniper, but there is a sentry nest stopping him. So, a spy can either back-stab the oblivious snipers, or try to back stab the engineers and sap while the heavy medic combo ubers through. A demo man got through the corner spam and is now on a catwalk, spamming the point from the right. However, a pyro came through sewer and is lighting the whole blu team on fire, making them retreat. This is TF2. Not whatever the fuck 6s is, dustbowl. 2fort. tc_hydro. goldrush. This is what people fell in love with, the teamplay and classes countering each other.

A scout can't out-DM an awake heavy with a pocket medic. A spy, or a sniper can take them out better. A scout can get past a sniper easily and harass him. A pyro has a big flamethrower that can easily hit a scout, and because scout has little health, pyro counters scout. But the heavies, the demos, and the soldiers can kill pyro with ease. The game has many counters in it that require you to cooperate with your team, much like overwatch.

So it's no surprise that the average tf2 player isn't interested in a scout/soldier Quake DM shitfest with a demo and an uber mixed in. Everything that makes TF2 unique to quake has been systematically removed in 6s, besides the uber I think.

So you ask "why is badwater and turbine in the matchmaking map pool?" Well, it's because those maps are familiar to the average player. I know sunshine and reckoner sure as fuck aren't. B4nny is the most popular comp tf2 player, and the average tf2 player doesn't know who the fuck b4nny even is.

They know who king raja and STAR_ are. They know about Muselk. These are players who make content about the base game, not 6s.

I know it sounds like I'm defending valve, but I'm really not. I'll be right there with you and be another complaining voice. But if you ACTUALLY WANT THIS GAME TO SUCCEED AND GROW, you'll have to cede a couple of things:

1. The average TF2 player will never give a shit about comp unless off classes are regularly used. This is just how it is.

2. If you want to """fix""" the game, you'll have to be willing to try things out. This means not immediately dismissing theorycrafting about airblasting, ubers, or any of the offclasses/unlocks in general. Whenever someone asks, "How can we make engi/heavy/pyro/spy work better in 6s?" you should actually answer the question instead of memeing and say "remove them"

3. TF2 was always built as a pub game, and unless it undergoes massive reworks, it will always be a garbage competitive game. If you like the gameplay of 6s, go play some quake clone. I promise you, it'll be way better than what 6s offers. Reflex, UT4, quakelive, Seriously, there's even a new game coming called Diabotical, made by a old quake pro who knows what the fuck esports are. Maybe even Quake champions will be good. Point is, You can't eat your cake and have it too.

all three of those have made competitive content. raja and muselk have talked about and advertised competitive tf2, and star not only played platinum highlander and esea 6s at a solid level, but also made several videos about both experiences. the rest of this post is just the rock paper scissors shit again that really doesnt work as well as you think it does.

Didn't even seriously read what I wrote or give it a chance. The game is spiraling down into the shitter, and all you guys can do is dismiss any discussion about how to make it stop. You think downvoting me makes my post any less true?

This game will die. It's completely irrelevant as is. Its comp format is broken and shitty. And all you guys do is complain.

Same conversation, same snarky, self-gratifying response.

Except that star was playing unusual 6s stuff, like a demoknight in his probably most popular 6s video.

he plays roamer scout and sniper as well iirc. keep in mind that even if it is fooling around, it still is in a competitive environment and turned tons of fans on to competitive - likely because they saw that they could play competitive and still have a lot of fun. competitive is normally seen by casual players to be no fun and all "tryhard", so that was pretty big.

1. if valve made the offclasses take more skill while not being as obnoxious i think the community would be fine with them
2. how is the competitive community going to fix things when valve has shown that they ignore like fucking anything this community says
3. 6s is nothing like actual tf2, well no shit, pubs are 12v12 and a place where u can fuck around. there's hardly any teamplay in pubs not to mention the "class counters xd" stuff
4. pyro does not counter scout LOL
5. the average tf2 player has never played any competitive tf2 unless u count tf2center HL lobbies

holy shit youre dumb valve lol

I know this is bait, but some people actually do legitimately think this.

There's nothing inherent about competitive that makes pubbers not want to watch or play it. Your average TF2 player gives less shits about HL, which does have every offclass being run as much as the generalists 24/7, than the general playerbase currently gives about 6s. HL tried to fix all the concerns pubbers had with 6s, but failed, and now people are realizing that trying to compromise 6s values so that it "appeals more" doesn't get anywhere.

And you can't forget all the other formats that didn't make it either. I wasn't around so I don't know a huge amount of the details but when competitive started, every detail from class limits to playercounts to what gamemodes to cvars to whatever was experimented with. 6v6 stuck around because it was found to be best for competitive. And then with all the attempts to make it appeal more, like Arena Respawn, Prolander, 4v4, etc. that at best became a gimmick gamemode that people play in their free time if they feel like it. We got the experimenting done by year 1, and then we decided to experiment for another 8 only to find out nothing new. I don't see why people insist we still need to experiment more (usually on the same things) when we've gotten nothing from it for almost a decade.

And the thing is people do theorycraft about those things. In fact the entire problem is that we've theorycrafted enough to make the game over again a few times over and have a strong idea of where the game should be. We do actually want good buffs to happen to the offclasses, and there have been many threads for each one full of viable suggestions. But people just look at the first "remove pyro" and think we haven't put any thought into it, and valve just does their own thing that (sometimes, in cases like this) seems to do the exact opposite of what should be basic knowledge.

hard to take you seriously when you write "pyro counters scout"

pretentious

This is subjective. When I get a kill, I find it satisfying because I've utilized the classes skill and specialty, not because I chose the right counter to said class.

At this stage, we know TF2 will likely never be a huge esport, especially with Valve doing...what they do.
So can we not force ourselves to use terrible weapons and shit in leagues just because that's what Valve wants or is putting in matchmaking? That way at least we can enjoy the game competitively, and not sacrifice what we have to appease to Valve in (rapidly diminishing) hopes of money and a larger community.

Just when I thought this update couldn't get any worse, I find out that votekicking is bugged now so you can't kick the cheaters from your team in casual.

GG.

at this point i have 0 explanation for the retarded things valve does
are they actually this incompetent...
i know the tf team is tiny as fuck but does it take a lot to just go on forums and actually accept the advice top players are giving...

This is indeed weak bait, but the points have already been made elsewhere numerous times.

Publisher support fixes everything. That's it.

There are loads of games that have no obvious competitive merit yet they are well supported and popular. TF2 has had an unusually large and healthy competitive community for many years given the publisher has taken no interest whatsoever, it's only recently with the release of a well resourced competitor that it's under threat.

The obvious conclusion is that the core of the game contains an excellent competitive title but the shit the publisher layers over it obscures this fact. There's never been any logic to Valve's insistence of putting competitive modes behind ridiculous barriers to entry, and since esports became big on Twitch they've been hopelessly exposed by not exploiting it.

Finally a competitor has attacked them on this front and made obvious headway. They might still act, but pissing around with the competitive map pool and other meaningless fiddling is irrelevant.

This is probably what bugs me the most. I keep hearing people defend valve for listening and trying but they're taking the most half-measured, baselessly redundant routes they possibly can. Like they don't trust ANYTHING the community has figured out over the last several years. It was widely agreed that ctf and pl in their current state just don't work well in a competitive 6s environment, but they feel like they'll somehow get valuable data by adding them into the map pool (while making zero changes to the maps regardless of how long they sit in the pool). People hand them entire lists of weapons that unbalance the game or are too weak to be worth considering at all. And they completely ignore the items and leave them untouched. But they proceed to throw random shit at the wall like giving the shortstop a shove. Why is that prioritized over something like rebalancing the vita-saw or conversely the steak sandvich? It just doesn't make sense, like they're intentionally avoiding fixing things that can really progress the game, in favor of experimenting with long-since disproven gimmicks hoping that one of them will somehow shake up the meta. We're also still looking at an MM with no class limits, no placement matches, and a sickeningly bad rank-balance per team system. All of which would be game-changing if tested/implemented. But no, we've got to see if turbine works in competitive- that's much more important.

So I just read the planned gunboat changes. If they keep fucking up in that direction (ie. raising the skill floor and lowering the ceiling), I'm going to delete my entire backpack live on stream and just do VR all day. Fuck off with this trying to be Overwatch nonsense, stop ruining our game you dipshits.
Jesus FUCKING Christ.

Wait, what?

overwatch isn't really relavent for tf2 anymore, 90% of the people that quit tf2 for overwatch won't come back no matter how good their updates become, they probably want to appeal to newer players, I don't think they are capable of making the game bigger anymore.
and I don't think they want to waste too much resources on trying.

Can someone explain where you are getting these "patch notes"?

I think it's relevant in that it shows what you can achieve if you engage with your competitive players actively and work with them to balance your product. Overwatch still has broad casual appeal, it has randomness, it makes sure that mechanical skill only goes so far, but because they've listened and acted on the advice of their competitive players it's also balanced to make the competitive experience acceptable without resorting to radically changing the game.

I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard knew about and was careful to avoid the specific types of mistake that have hounded comp TF2.

its a joke someone made in this thread
http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/663009/scream-fortress-viii-has-arrived